Casey Viator admits he (and Mentzer) used high doses and GH

[Submissionfytr]

I've always heard Casey (especially with Arthur Jones hating drugs and training him) used very low doses, some even claimed he was natural. Came across someone who interviewed him and he admits they not only did have/use Growth Hormone, but took huge dosages that would equal what most use today.

DISCOVERING THE TRUTH
I have fairly recently trained down in Florida with top pro of the 70's and early 80's CASEY VIATOR.
I asked him directly about steroid use in the 70's and this is what he had to say.... and I quote...
"Don't let anyone fool you about our low doses. We were just as reckless with steroid use as they are today."
I asked him when the big doses started....
" The big doses started around 1974 and yes we were all right on top of it". Yes we ALL used GH back then and it was from real cadavers. The GH we all used was called CRESCORMIN and nobody was going to morgues to get it".
I wanted an example and I told him about what I heard my mentor, and his friend and former training partner, Mike Mentzer used......only 400 of deca/week and 30 of d-bol/day.
CASEY LAUGHED and then said this...." Mentzer used up to 2.5 grams of deca a week, God knows how much primobolin acetate, along with d-bol and growth, so as I said don't be fooled about our low doses as we were just as reckless as theses guys are today. 

http://irongangsta.blogspot.com.es/2013/04/bodybuilding-dirty-little-secrets.html?m=1

[ritch]

Makes sense. The diets they had were ultra low cal, training like crazy, you don't do that on those bullshit doses they were talking about...

[Hulk-smash!]

And Casey was in his by far best condition in 1971 100% natural.  Jones had his Nautilus paid apartnent searched regularly & had it bugged.  Anybody who thinks Casey fooled Jones is dumb as shit besides not knowing spit about how ruthless & violently opposed to drugs Jones was.  Ask Jim Flannigan he'll tell ya.

IOW - All the drugs he used did nothing to improve his physique.  Just as jones told him.

[Vince B]

Ray Mentzer stayed at my place for many, many months. We didn't discuss steroids much because I wasn't interested in using them. When Ray returned to the US he tried to compete once more and his weight went up to over 280 pounds. That was around 1989. I stayed with Ray and Pam in Torrance in 1991. Ray told me he got sick when he got huge. He said a lot of the other guys at Golds who were around 300 pounds were also getting sick. I didn't ask for any details because Ray is a proud guy so I left it alone. He died in 2001 from kidney disease complications as he was on dialysis.

When Ray was training for the Mr America contest in 1979 his mother died. Ray told me he would have trained 24 hours a day if that would have helped him win that title for his mum. Now that is motivation. I have no doubt that Ray would have done what ever was required to win a big contest. Mike won the Mr Universe title while both won the Mr America contest. Ray was a bit jealous of Mike partly because he told me his dad favoured Mike. So I guess Ray wanted to show his dad that he could also win that title. Ray was very cavalier about steroids. He called them gonad stimulators and he didn't consider them dangerous. His partner, Kathy, told us she couldn't live with Ray when he and his friends were preparing for competitions. They would take things to hype themselves up for a workout then take things afterwards as well. Plus the steroids. Ray was only 47 when he died and Mike died two days earlier aged 49. Two smart guys who were a bit reckless with their health and paid the price for abusing a lot of chemicals.

[Coffeed]

And that's the fitness industry for you.

[ritch]

Ray Mentzer stayed at my place for many, many months. We didn't discuss steroids much because I wasn't interested in using them. When Ray returned to the US he tried to compete once more and his weight went up to over 280 pounds. That was around 1989. I stayed with Ray and Pam in Torrance in 1991. Ray told me he got sick when he got huge. He said a lot of the other guys at Golds who were around 300 pounds were also getting sick. I didn't ask for any details because Ray is a proud guy so I left it alone. He died in 2001 from kidney disease complications as he was on dialysis.

When Ray was training for the Mr America contest in 1979 his mother died. Ray told me he would have trained 24 hours a day if that would have helped him win that title for his mum. Now that is motivation. I have no doubt that Ray would have done what ever was required to win a big contest. Mike won the Mr Universe title while both won the Mr America contest. Ray was a bit jealous of Mike partly because he told me his dad favoured Mike. So I guess Ray wanted to show his dad that he could also win that title. Ray was very cavalier about steroids. He called them gonad stimulators and he didn't consider them dangerous. His partner, Kathy, told us she couldn't live with Ray when he and his friends were preparing for competitions. They would take things to hype themselves up for a workout then take things afterwards as well. Plus the steroids. Ray was only 47 when he died and Mike died two days earlier aged 49. Two smart guys who were a bit reckless with their health and paid the price for abusing a lot of chemicals.

Well shit man, that was a rather solid post. I always had an interest in the Mentzer's and am rather proud (feel very vintage like) to have spoken with MIke on the phone for consultations.

Don't suppose you wanna talk about their amphetamine addiction? Something very strange was going on, how they died, so close together and such.

[hardgainerj]

Two smart guys who were a bit reckless with their health and paid the price for abusing a lot of chemicals.

[Vince B]

Well shit man, that was a rather solid post. I always had an interest in the Mentzer's and am rather proud (feel very vintage like) to have spoken with MIke on the phone for consultations.

Don't suppose you wanna talk about their amphetamine addiction? Something very strange was going on, how they died, so close together and such.

After Mike lost the 80 Olympia he sort of lost control of his life and was known to the police for doing crazy things on the street, etc. Ray was told by his dad to give Mike a job at his Muscle Mill Gym in Torrance.

Ray told me Mike behaved badly at times there and he caused some members to train elsewhere, especially police members. In 1991 Ray had a successful business doing back rehab using expensive MedX machines.

He was expanding his business while I was there. Then he opened a gym near where he lived. There were too many gyms around for that to be very successful. Somehow things changed and Mike looked after

Ray when Ray's health deteriorated. Mike was making videos and was making money again. Soon after both died. I have no idea what drugs either man took. Ray sure when downhill fast towards the end.

[ritch]

After Mike lost the 80 Olympia he sort of lost control of his life and was known to the police for doing crazy things on the street, etc. Ray was told by his dad to give Mike a job at his Muscle Mill Gym in Torrance.

Ray told me Mike behaved badly at times there and he caused some members to train elsewhere, especially police members. In 1991 Ray had a successful business doing back rehab using expensive MedX machines.

He was expanding his business while I was there. Then he opened a gym near where he lived. There were too many gyms around for that to be very successful. Somehow things changed and Mike looked after

Ray when Ray's health deteriorated. Mike was making videos and was making money again. Soon after both died. I have no idea what drugs either man took. Ray sure when downhill fast towards the end.

Really a huge tragedy to lose these two guys. Plus their "look" is totally cool now with the kids, they could have had another run. Just too bad Mike was so hard headed to even consider volume being good for some people, man the guy was impossible to budge in his way of thinking, lol...

Still remember those cassettes I got from mm2k mag listening to the interview with Mentzer from TC Luoma. That type of info was gold wrapped in gold to me, no internet, no google...

I'd give you ONE blue star for this story and having lived with a Mentzer brother a while, lol.

[Vince B]

Really a huge tragedy to lose these two guys. Plus their "look" is totally cool now with the kids, they could have had another run. Just too bad Mike was so hard headed to even consider volume being good for some people, man the guy was impossible to budge in his way of thinking, lol...

Still remember those cassettes I got from mm2k mag listening to the interview with Mentzer from TC Luoma. That type of info was gold wrapped in gold to me, no internet, no google...

I'd give you ONE blue star for this story and having lived with a Mentzer brother a while, lol.

I met Mike after Ray introduced me at Golds in 1991. I gave him a story I wrote after the 1980 Mr Olympia that no magazine would publish. I never made a copy of it and I doubt Mike kept it.

We talked about hypertrophy but neither of us budged from our positions. I always considered Mike to be one of the few true philosophers who were bodybuilders. I even read some Ayn Rand but

never subscribed to her selfishness philosophy like Mike and Ray did. I studied philosophy at university and there were never any courses re Ayn Rand. She was a good writer, however, and she

did affect what Mike did in life. Mike had this notion that there is only one true explanation for any phenomenon. If you knew the explanation then that was all there was to know about the subject.

So it was about bodybuilding and hypertrophy. Mike was convinced, a la Arthur Jones, that it was intensity that triggered growth. He also trained infrequently because he felt the muscles needed

time to recover and rebuild. What a shame both Mike and Arthur got it wrong. Intensity is a factor for sure but only one factor in the formula. The other is volume. You can keep your muscles training

like Mike and Ray did but you seldom build much using the Heavy Duty method. Oh, you will make gains for a while but eventually you will plateau. What a shame Mike died before the internet was

a big deal. He would have been great online debating everyone. He did write a lot of articles so at least we have those.

You see, Mike believed he knew about hypertrophy. He knew the one true theory. When he lost to Arnold and placed 4th in 1980 his whole world collapsed. His beliefs were shattered and Mike took

to using drugs and carrying on like a crazy person. It was sad for Ray and others who knew him. When he emerged from those crazy years and tried to earn a living he found some wealth again.

He smoked like a chimney and didn't train any longer....or very little. Yet people out there wanted information so he wrote books and published articles. The videos were supposed to bring him even

more money but he died while making them so that pretty much ended the Mentzer era.

[K A N N I B A L]

I recall mike smoking while discussing nutrition (from memory) on the Heavy Duty dvd they shot with Marcus Reinhardt.
That was after the Heavy Duty 2 book was released, and finally convinced me he'd lost it completely.
Youd at least put the cigarette down for five mins on film..

[Nether Animal]

I recall mike smoking while discussing nutrition (from memory) on the Heavy Duty dvd they shot with Marcus Reinhardt.
That was after the Heavy Duty 2 book was released, and finally convinced me he'd lost it completely.
Youd at least put the cigarette down for five mins on film..

That was a sad scene, Mike was chain smoking like crazy... stumbling over his words. I always wondered what happened to his voice. In the mid '80s his training videos he sounds normal, then in the '90s he got this crackling weird sounding voice. Anyway he and Ray walked like they were 90 years old in that vid... I guess Marcus does the high intensity thing still, trying to keep that flame alive.

[ritch]

I met Mike after Ray introduced me at Golds in 1991. I gave him a story I wrote after the 1980 Mr Olympia that no magazine would publish. I never made a copy of it and I doubt Mike kept it.

We talked about hypertrophy but neither of us budged from our positions. I always considered Mike to be one of the few true philosophers who were bodybuilders. I even read some Ayn Rand but

never subscribed to her selfishness philosophy like Mike and Ray did. I studied philosophy at university and there were never any courses re Ayn Rand. She was a good writer, however, and she

did affect what Mike did in life. Mike had this notion that there is only one true explanation for any phenomenon. If you knew the explanation then that was all there was to know about the subject.

So it was about bodybuilding and hypertrophy. Mike was convinced, a la Arthur Jones, that it was intensity that triggered growth. He also trained infrequently because he felt the muscles needed

time to recover and rebuild. What a shame both Mike and Arthur got it wrong. Intensity is a factor for sure but only one factor in the formula. The other is volume. You can keep your muscles training

like Mike and Ray did but you seldom build much using the Heavy Duty method. Oh, you will make gains for a while but eventually you will plateau. What a shame Mike died before the internet was

a big deal. He would have been great online debating everyone. He did write a lot of articles so at least we have those.

You see, Mike believed he knew about hypertrophy. He knew the one true theory. When he lost to Arnold and placed 4th in 1980 his whole world collapsed. His beliefs were shattered and Mike took

to using drugs and carrying on like a crazy person. It was sad for Ray and others who knew him. When he emerged from those crazy years and tried to earn a living he found some wealth again.

He smoked like a chimney and didn't train any longer....or very little. Yet people out there wanted information so he wrote books and published articles. The videos were supposed to bring him even

more money but he died while making them so that pretty much ended the Mentzer era.

Mentzer on the internet? HOly shit man, not sure he would have lasted...

[thegamechanger]

good posts vince!

[oldschoolfan]

mike trained different in the 70's

he did about 9 sets per body part with the supersets

i have his heavy duty journal which actually was a good training book.      mike had a hall of a look to him  ,   and he was a great writer, just a shame he ended his career

so early, he was very popular in the early 80's  and weider was paying him 150k   a year in 1980 to write articles.  by all account joe was very fond of mike. mike just

totally lost it after 80 olympia,   

[ritch]

mike trained different in the 70's

he did about 9 sets per body part with the supersets

i have his heavy duty journal which actually was a good training book.      mike had a hall of a look to him  ,   and he was a great writer, just a shame he ended his career

so early, he was very popular in the early 80's  and weider was paying him 150k   a year in 1980 to write articles.  by all account joe was very fond of mike. mike just

totally lost it after 80 olympia,   

that was more cash than the MR O and still is. Are you sure about that number?

[mazrim]

This is one of the interviews I always point out when guys talk about how small the doses were back then/they didn't need to use as much because of training, more potent, etc.

[ritch]

This is one of the interviews I always point out when guys talk about how small the doses were back then/they didn't need to use as much because of training, more potent, etc.

The whole "dbal was so much better then" gets fuckin' old also. Stuff is so f'in cheap to make, people have no idea.

[oldschoolfan]

that was more cash than the MR O and still is. Are you sure about that number?

yeah im pretty sure about that, i think i read it in a flex magazine article the rise and fall of mike mentzer


his close friends said he was making about a million a year before he died.

[oldschoolfan]

oh by the way bros i used to share emails with casey viator about 12 years ago

he was actually very friendly answered all my emails pretty fast

he had nothing but good things to say about arnold, and mike mentzer .


said arnold was a beast in pre contest mode,

[thegamechanger]

what would the reasons be that they didnt use huge amounts in the 70s?

[TheShape.]

Cool posts Vince!

[mazrim]

what would the reasons be that they didnt use huge amounts in the 70s?

Basically they worked harder, stuff was more potent back then, etc.

Hear the first one the most personally. Apparently hard work overcomes thousands of milligrams of steroids...old guys like to talk how terrible/laughable it is that someone is using 1.2 grams of test (for example) when "back in the day" they got monstrous on 350mg.

The "more potent" argument is funny as well as they still make a lot of the comments in the last argument to talk about how crazy someone is when in reality if the stuff was so much better back then, than that 1.2gr test user is only taking about 250mg, etc. according to them.

Basically it's bogus that they believe these guys took low doseages to begin with.

[BB]

I doubt the GH use, although it did happen, was that huge back then. It was still tightly controlled, and the cost in 1982 was $10,000 a year (around $25,000 a year in 2015 dollars) for a relatively light course of it by bodybuilding standards. It would've been much more back in the 70's.

Genentech was the real breakthrough in GH back around 1984/5.

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/29/sports/sports-people-hormones-for-athletes.html .

[Rudee]

The whole "dbal was so much better then" gets fuckin' old also. Stuff is so f'in cheap to make, people have no idea.

I and many members of our football team took Dbol back in the mid 80's when I attended Lord Beaverbrook High school in Calgary.   I remember it being relatively cheap.   The person who supplied our football team with Dbol as well as all the Bennies we wanted was Chris Benoit, who was wrestling with Stampede Wrestling at the time.  (Was prior to him going to the WWF).   Chris and his buddy Ben Bassarab would show up twice a month, and park their tiny car in the corner of the back lot, and take orders. I don't recall him offering any injectables.   Was mostly Dbol, Anadrol 50 and bennies.   Cheap Cheap Cheap.   This would have been around 84-85