what states or cities is creatine illegal in?

[HavoX]

or are there any? 

Is creatine illegal where you are?

[Bluto]

Only place I've heard about is France

[G o a t b o y]

Only place I've heard about is France

You're kidding, right?

Why would creatine be illegal anywhere? It's not a drug, it's a natural component of food, found in red meat.

That would be like making protein illegal!

Fuccking europeans. 

[Mars]

There are people at my gym who thinks taking protein shakes is cheating haha.

[Special Ed]

It's illegal in Douchebagistan and Commonsenseville.

Special "Pravda" Ed

[Johnny Apollo]

"natural bodybuilding" is an oxymoron for many reasons.

Powdered Creatine itself is not "natural". It's a synthetic concentrated powder of the amino acids produced in a factory,It's anything but "natural". It occuring naturally in the body or existing in foods doesn't mean concentrating it into a powder makes it natural.

The word "natural" comes from the latin word naturalis meaning "From birth" in that sense the second anyone is born they are no longer "natural" but are changed due to "Society".

If you consider synthetic concentrated powdered creatine "Natural" then you must also consider synthetic testosterone "natural". Both occur naturally in the body, Both were synthesized and concentrated in a lab, Both are taken to increase the natural levels of the chemicals in the body. Nothing about synthetic powdered creatine concentrate makes it more natural than synthetic testosterone injections.

Nothing about Bodybuilding is "natural". Lifting weights molded from steel over and over daily is anything but "natural". You'll never find such equipiment in nature. Consuming thousands of calories a day is not "natural" espically 200grams of protein.

There's such a thing as "nature" and "Nurture". Having 14 inch arms that nature intended is "natural"..Building them to 18 inches by lifting weights for 10 years is "nurture" and is no longer considered "natural" but environmental.

Here is an article by Rick Collins I highly recomend.

"Natural Bodybuilding" - Modern Oxymoron?

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/collins/natural-bodybuilding.htm

[dr.chimps]

Holy smokes, my friend. Thought I was living healthily, eating well and exercising, and now I find all those efforts make me 'unnatural.' Thanks for the heads-up professor. *sigh*

[Johnny Apollo]

dr.chimps Unnatural does not imply Unhealthy just like Natural does not imply Healthy.
There are plenty of Un-natural healthy thigns and natural unhealthy things.

Multi-vitamin supplements are synthetic concentrated vitams. Unnatural yet very healthy to take.

Uranium is a natural element in nature. Natural yet very unhealthy to even be around.

Exercising,Taking vitamin supplements,These things aren't "natural" but are very healthy.

[pluck]

Well natural in bodybuilding terms is referring to being juiced or not, like everyone knows.

But if you want to get technical about it, it makes sense that if you take vitamins and other supps you're not natural. Natural is like being the rest of the population eating empty calories and sitting on your ass. That's natural for ya. Perfect example of being natural, by Rick Collin's definitioin: 240!

[Johnny Apollo]

Well natural in bodybuilding terms is referring to being juiced or not, like everyone knows.
But if you want to get technical about it, it makes sense that if you take vitamins and other supps you're not natural. Natural is like being the rest of the population eating empty calories and sitting on your ass. That's natural for ya. Perfect example of being natural, by Rick Collin's definitioin: 240!

Well the bodybuilding definition of "natural" is inconsistent and ambigious and simply wrong.

Simply put...If synthetic powdered creatine monohydrate concentrate is "natural" then so is synthetic testosterone. Creatine being found in food is completly irrelevant. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to get say 20 grams of creatine a day simply by eating food.

[pluck]

Well the bodybuilding definition of "natural" is inconsistent and ambigious and simply wrong.
Simply put...If synthetic powdered creatine monohydrate concentrate is "natural" then so is synthetic testosterone. Creatine being found in food is completly irrelevant. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to get say 20 grams of creatine a day simply by eating food.

Ok let me elaborate more on the bodybuilder definition of natural. No creatine out there increases/decreases hormone or test levels, or any other OTC supps. Say what you want about the so called "test boosters" but they're all shit. Injecting or taking pill form of steroids is not natural. Now that you bring it up the meaning of natural in bodybuilding is ambigious, but everyone assumes that if you say you're natural then you're not a juicer, and vice versa.

[Johnny Apollo]

Ok let me elaborate more on the bodybuilder definition of natural. No creatine out there increases/decreases hormone or test levels, or any other OTC supps. Say what you want about the so called "test boosters" but they're all shit. Injecting or taking pill form of steroids is not natural. Now that you bring it up the meaning of natural in bodybuilding is ambigious, but everyone assumes that if you say you're natural then you're not a juicer, and vice versa.

Why does it matter if it raises your hormone levels or not to be natural or unnatural? Hormone levels are just one bodly chemical level.

I say if something raises your creatine levels that's not natural. I say if you don't get the creatine from simple food than it isn't natural.

Injecting and taking steroids is NOT natural,I completly agree. But I also say taking synthetic concentrated creatine powder is not natural either.

There's no difference between the two that would make one natural and the other not.

[Bluto]

You're kidding, right?

Nope

[The Showstoppa]

Test occues naturally.  Wonder if that argument will fly, too.

[Johnny Apollo]

Test occues naturally.  Wonder if that argument will fly, too.

Test occurs naturally-So does Creatine.

Test is produced synthetically and concentrated when used-So is Creatine.

Test increases natural test levels-Creatine increases natural creatine levels.

It's impossible to get test levels as high as you would have them on a steroid cycle without steroids-It's impossible to get creatine levels as high as you would have them on creatine with just creatine from food.

Creatine occuring in meat naturally doesn't mean Synthetic concentrated creatine is natural by any means.


IF creatine is "natural" so is Testosterone injections. So is HGH injections.

IF synthetic concentrated vitamin supplements are "natural"..So is test injections.

[analcandy]

Test occurs naturally-So does Creatine.
Test is produced synthetically and concentrated when used-So is Creatine.
Test increases natural test levels-Creatine increases natural creatine levels.
It's impossible to get test levels as high as you would have them on a steroid cycle without steroids-It's impossible to get creatine levels as high as you would have them on creatine with just creatine from food.
Creatine occuring in meat naturally doesn't mean Synthetic concentrated creatine is natural by any means.
IF creatine is "natural" so is Testosterone injections. So is HGH injections.
IF synthetic concentrated vitamin supplements are "natural"..So is test injections.

[The Showstoppa]

Thank.  That was the point of my post.

[Sir William Idol]

johnny apollo is correct

[dr.chimps]

Mr. Apollo, all your points are valid and taken, but I think you are missing the thread's iron(y).

[Johnny Apollo]

My earlier point was just that by athletic standards, my creatine usage is natural and normal.

Yet inconsistent...

[brianX]

Test occurs naturally-So does Creatine.
Test is produced synthetically and concentrated when used-So is Creatine.
Test increases natural test levels-Creatine increases natural creatine levels.
It's impossible to get test levels as high as you would have them on a steroid cycle without steroids-It's impossible to get creatine levels as high as you would have them on creatine with just creatine from food.
Creatine occuring in meat naturally doesn't mean Synthetic concentrated creatine is natural by any means.
IF creatine is "natural" so is Testosterone injections. So is HGH injections.
IF synthetic concentrated vitamin supplements are "natural"..So is test injections.

Very dumb post. Testosterone and growth hormone are not present in natural food products. Like you said, creatine and whey protein supplements are merely concentrated derivatives of compounds found in common food products like red meat and milk. BIG difference.

Whether or not a compound is synthetically produced is irrelevant to its chemical properties. Synthetic testosterone, insulin, and growth hormone are chemically identical to the naturally occuring versions. The real test of "naturalness" is whether or not these compounds can be obtained naturally from food products. By this standard, steroids and other bodybuilding drugs are unnatural.

[HowieW]

I had friends in high school and college tell me that I wasn't "all natural" because I supplemented with creatine.  Some people just don't understand this stuff and I guess the French (maybe not all) are lumped into this bone-head club.

Tell these morons that they can get a better pump and all natural via FARTING in eatchothers fat face between sets

[brianX]

Not to mention the fact that steroids are vastly more effective at building muscle. Some of these pros gain 30-50 lb of muscle before a contest.

[Capt._America]

I dye my hair, does that mean I am not natural?

[Johnny Apollo]

Very dumb post. Testosterone and growth hormone are not present in natural food products. Like you said, creatine and whey protein supplements are merely concentrated derivatives of compounds found in common food products like red meat and milk. BIG difference.
Whether or not a compound is synthetically produced is irrelevant to its chemical properties. Synthetic testosterone, insulin, and growth hormone are chemically identical to the naturally occuring versions. The real test of "naturalness" is whether or not these compounds can be obtained naturally from food products. By this standard, steroids and other bodybuilding drugs are unnatural.

I've already talked about this...
That's simply not how "natural" is defined. "natural" doesn't mean "If it can be obtained from food products in small amounts".
You can't just make up your own definition of "natural" to fit your argument. Nowhere in the definition of "natural" does it say "if it can be obtained in small amounts from foods."
The fact creatine exists in small amounts in foods is 100% irrelevant. The creatine found in the food is natural,The synthetic creatine from concentrate is NOT.

Learn to read.