What this guy says about natural lifting vs drug lifting is spot on.

[Al Doggity]

Im not worried I'm just stating my opinion brother ...

Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but you are like a broken record.  A contradictory broken record at that. Every post from you is either "I don't understand why people do this. Everyone should do things according to what I consider correct " or "I don't care what others do. I don't pay attention to what others do and you shouldn't either." Judging from your post history, you are consumed 24/7 with what others do.


You've been able to achieve a good physique and if you really are natural, that's great. However, in this very thread, you talked about the injuries you acquired over the last 15 years. If you had a job where you habitually acquired injuries performing the duties of your job, and those injuries actually affected how you were able to perform that job, you'd quit. Yet, you continue to work out for free, right? Where's the logic in that?    Is the ability to pick up a heavier iron bar really worth it?

The combination of smugness, contradiction and dogmatism in your posts can get pretty ridiculous.( This coming from a natural with a good physique who is pretty strong. )

[Cleanest Natural]

I'll tell you how I did it
15 yrs now of shut the fuck up and train. I invested a god legion of my like recreationally into lifting but I guess that's not the answer you want to hear though. People only see the final product not the injuries time etc put in 15 years. When you invest that much time into something if it falls within your genetic gift then you will excel
I don't look at a swimmer who can do 90 lengths and ask him what did you eat to do that. Lazy way of thinking because the assumption is it has to be anything but hard work and time invested... Ok I we Quaker oats you run go out and get some and you will press 175 dumbells too

you are back?   

2 jamaican meals a day a red bull and some oreos and ben hing 450lbs haha..I remember owning you 7 years ago. Youstill peddling the natural BS?

[mr.turbo]

you are back?   

2 jamaican meals a day a red bull and some oreos and ben hing 450lbs haha..I remember owning you 7 years ago. Youstill peddling the natural BS?

ahah he's back, bigger stronger and more natural than ever


 

[MAXX]

about as natural as the musclemania fellas lol

[mesmorph78]

Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but you are like a broken record.  A contradictory broken record at that. Every post from you is either "I don't understand why people do this. Everyone should do things according to what I consider correct " or "I don't care what others do. I don't pay attention to what others do and you shouldn't either." Judging from your post history, you are consumed 24/7 with what others do.


You've been able to achieve a good physique and if you really are natural, that's great. However, in this very thread, you talked about the injuries you acquired over the last 15 years. If you had a job where you habitually acquired injuries performing the duties of your job, and those injuries actually affected how you were able to perform that job, you'd quit. Yet, you continue to work out for free, right? Where's the logic in that?    Is the ability to pick up a heavier iron bar really worth it?

The combination of smugness, contradiction and dogmatism in your posts can get pretty ridiculous.( This coming from a natural with a good physique who is pretty strong. )

Injuries come with the territory .... That is an entirely different matter than putting all manner of drugs in ones body.  Also I have been fortunate enough to not have any serious injuries and when these accidents do occur I which Is A part of life I tailor my training to allow my body to heal. Injuries are a natural occurrence if doing anything repetitively over an extended period of time .. Eg barber , carpel tunnel , tennis player tennis play ... and so on.

There is nothing natural about putting drugs in your body, over time life threatening drugs ....
So the two are not remotely comparable.

[Simple Simon]

Yes that is the same article, he seemed like a cool guy.

 In life it's always a good idea to weigh up the pros and cons before making decisions a lot of people abuse the power of choice. Now for a pro bodybuilder I can see the rationale slightly of taking drugs, in my personal opinion I don't think it is ever worth it no amount of money etc is worth a year of life. However that my perception a Heath or a Coleman might say yeah I'll do it it's worth it. One does wonder if they would or will have that stance in hindsight if they get the chance .. Because some don't a la Nasser munzer mike etc etc

What I can never ever understand however is guys who take steroids or whatever and they don't even complete or have no chance of being competitive or just do it recreationally just to be buff... That's a hell of a risk. A very shallow way of thinking (and I use the term loosely)
But at the end of the day everyone has to live their own life.

RIP MIKE matazzaro

[mesmorph78]

you are back?   

2 jamaican meals a day a red bull and some oreos and ben hing 450lbs haha..I remember owning you 7 years ago. Youstill peddling the natural BS?

You're over the age of 15 yrs old and using the term "owning" someone on a message board.

 
Never benched 450 never tried

No one can "own" me...

[Simple Simon]

Injuries come with the territory .... That is an entirely different matter than putting all manner of drugs in ones body.  Also I have been fortunate enough to not have any serious injuries and when these accidents do occur I which Is A part of life I tailor my training to allow my body to heal. Injuries are a natural occurrence if doing anything repetitively over an extended period of time .. Eg barber , carpel tunnel , tennis player tennis play ... and so on.

There is nothing natural about putting drugs in your body, over time life threatening drugs ....
So the two are not remotely comparable.

ever done recreational drugs or taken prescription meds?

[Simple Simon]

You're over the age of 15 yrs old and using the term "owning" someone on a message board.

 
Never benched 450 never tried

No one can "own" me...

your emotional response is akin to you being "owned"

[mesmorph78]

ever done recreational drugs or taken prescription meds?

This thread is really about what the guy in the video is saying about drug use, not me but anyway.

I've never even being drunk in entire life
Never smoked a joint or a ciggerate

After visiting a energency/ hospital room ibrufen or nurafen pain killers.

[Al Doggity]

Injuries come with the territory .... That is an entirely different matter than putting all manner of drugs in ones body.  Also I have been fortunate enough to not have any serious injuries and when these accidents do occur I which Is A part of life I tailor my training to allow my body to heal. Injuries are a natural occurrence if doing anything repetitively over an extended period of time .. Eg barber , carpel tunnel , tennis player tennis play ... and so on.

There is nothing natural about putting drugs in your body, over time life threatening drugs ....
So the two are not remotely comparable.

No, they are comparable. No one forces you to lift weights and there really is no other reason you do it besides ego. It's not for health. It would be healthier and safer to lift more moderately, but you've posted before that you laugh at people in the gym who lift moderately.  That was the point of the previous post. I'm not pretending that steroids don't have side effects, but for a modest user they are hardly a death sentence. 

[muscleman-2013]

IFBB

International Federation of Big Bellies.

[rocket]

Meso sometimes forgets that he is a genetic overlord - he is strangely incredible shape and very strong.  

That doesn't diminish his achievements - I'm just saying you are, brother.  You don't understand juicing because you have never needed to.

The desire to juice comes from a lot of negative things.. impatience, inadequacy etc, but it can also come from just not feeling like you're improving.

A guy you, Meso probably never felt that, never felt impatient - always was getting better at sufficient rate to satisfy.  It's a no brainer for you to do it natural.  You're getting enough ego from what you're doing as it is.

Again, that's not taking away from all the hard work.  It's just really fucking easy to have a strong mind and resist temptation when you know that you've got the power in you, without it.

Some people just really don't and they know it.  I personally know that I can bench a lot (I am currently 4 plates) - my training partner has pulled over 7 plate deadlift - so being natural isn't really much of a hindrance. Why would we bother?  I don't think we're the norm, though.

Saying that, I'd love to bench 5 plates.

[Simple Simon]

This thread is really about what the guy in the video is saying about drug use, not me but anyway.

I've never even being drunk in entire life
Never smoked a joint or a ciggerate

After visiting a energency/ hospital room ibrufen or nurafen pain killers.

You sir have wasted your time here on this planet.

[Simple Simon]

Yes he talks smack but what he saying is spot on....

I didn't even realise mike died... One of my faves from flex days.

I remember reading an article he wrote after he started having heart problems in 2004 he just had a son too and he said he regrets ever touching steroids and that he probably wouldn't live another 15 years.  He also said he wish he had kept on driving his removal truck and never got into competitive bodybuilding.

Really?
you look up to drug taking bodybuilders?

[Simple Simon]

Yes that is the same article, he seemed like a cool guy.

 In life it's always a good idea to weigh up the pros and cons before making decisions a lot of people abuse the power of choice. Now for a pro bodybuilder I can see the rationale slightly of taking drugs, in my personal opinion I don't think it is ever worth it no amount of money etc is worth a year of life. However that my perception a Heath or a Coleman might say yeah I'll do it it's worth it. One does wonder if they would or will have that stance in hindsight if they get the chance .. Because some don't a la Nasser munzer mike etc etc

What I can never ever understand however is guys who take steroids or whatever and they don't even complete or have no chance of being competitive or just do it recreationally just to be buff... That's a hell of a risk. A very shallow way of thinking (and I use the term loosely)
But at the end of the day everyone has to live their own life.

RIP MIKE matazzaro

Hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders take drugs every year and a small percentage get health problems.

How do you know the drugs they were taking didnt help them live a bit longer?

They may have had conditions that the drugs kept at bay.

[mesmorph78]

You sir have wasted your time here on this planet.

  I just don't see any point or benifit to it

[Simple Simon]

  I just don't see any point or benifit to it

There doesnt have to be a point or benefit, its just about trying new things and living a full life.

By the way, do all the guys who train at Savs who take gear know you have this shitty opinion of them for using drugs?

[mesmorph78]

Really?
you look up to drug taking bodybuilders?

I don't condemn guys who take drugs, their are a few physiques I admire
The biggest appeal for me as a kid in regards to these guys is, at first I thought they were natural which is what the magazines said... Naive yes I was a kid, but the appeal for me has always been the strength and worth ethic which is why Coleman Cormier levrone Shawn Dorian and the old school Sergio Arnold etc were my favourite bodybuilders also.

[mesmorph78]

Hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders take drugs every year and a small percentage get health problems.

How do you know the drugs they were taking didnt help them live a bit longer?

They may have had conditions that the drugs kept at bay.

Done agree I believe the percentage of bodybuilder that fuck the self up is greater than we know.

Those guys like Nasser Munzer and Mike are the ones we know about. Their are thousands unknown who have messed the self up... The ones we know about essentially are the guys who can no longer hide the problems so they are forced to come out about it.

Many unknowns die or are seriously ill due to side effects

[Simple Simon]

I don't condemn guys who take drugs, their are a few physiques I admire
The biggest appeal for me as a kid in regards to these guys is, at first I thought they were natural which is what the magazines said... Naive yes I was a kid, but the appeal for me has always been the strength and worth ethic which is why Coleman Cormier levrone Shawn Dorian and the old school Sergio Arnold etc were my favourite bodybuilders also.

Seriously?
Cormier was a party animal and never took it as seriously as the other guys
Levrone only trained 4 months before the Olympia in his later years.

[Simple Simon]

Done agree I believe the percentage of bodybuilder that fuck the self up is greater than we know.

Those guys like Nasser Munzer and Mike are the ones we know about. Their are thousands unknown who have messed the self up... The ones we know about essentially are the guys who can no longer hide the problems so they are forced to come out about it.

Many unknowns die or are seriously ill due to side effects

who cares what you believe, facts are based on evidence.

[mesmorph78]

I don't have anything against guys who use at all.... I just think it isn't worth it that's all.  Particularly if you're not a professional bodybuilder. Or have no hope of being one
It would be the same as taking drugs to be a recreational sprinter with a time of 15 seconds for the 100 metres


Plus this thread isn't about my opinion really it's about the guy in the video.

[James28]

Injuries come with the territory .... That is an entirely different matter than putting all manner of drugs in ones body.  Also I have been fortunate enough to not have any serious injuries and when these accidents do occur I which Is A part of life I tailor my training to allow my body to heal. Injuries are a natural occurrence if doing anything repetitively over an extended period of time .. Eg barber , carpel tunnel , tennis player tennis play ... and so on.

There is nothing natural about putting drugs in your body, over time life threatening drugs ....
So the two are not remotely comparable.

Then don't. Who honestly, in the deepest recesses of their souls, gives a fuck what others do. They can die today or live on immortal. You see a billionaire throwing cash around, I see a short balding guy compensating. You see a steroid ape walking around with flaring lats and XXS t-shirt, I see a mentally ill person. In time you won't judge these people, you'll find their devotion to their illnesses and insecurities almost touching.

You see the guy minding his own business, doing his own thing and living his own life. That's who you should strive to be. Don't boast, don't lie, don't seek attention. And definitely don't give a shit what others do or don't.

You'll be happier for it.

[mazrim]

Plus this thread isn't about my opinion really

Yes it is.