Author Topic: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise  (Read 10304 times)

deadpan

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Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« on: July 15, 2015, 08:33:26 PM »
hello everyone, it's been quite a while since i've posted, not sure if anyone here still remembers me. it feels nice to be back  :) and also out of jail :-[

long story short it's been a rough few years with few stupid decisions towards the end that have me potentially facing a prison sentence. it's my first offence and my attorney says i'll likely get probation or a diversion/rehab program but i'm planning for the worst...

26 y/o, started around 24ish, i made some good gains at first and was hoping to commit to a blast/cruise but various life circumstances in addition to my general lack of motivation kept me from really dialing in my diet/training so for most of my time on i was going on about 300-400mg test/wk, i figured i would just be throwing away my health and money otherwise. had lots of medical issues (non-aas related) and honestly at some point the aas became more for my sanity ironically than anything else.

i'm worried that my HPTA has really taken a dive, there is definitely some ball shrinkage as well. at this point i'm not really too concerned with muscle preservation so much as getting my test production back to normal levels, or alternately getting a TRT script. TRT would be preferable since i do want to get back into lifting but at this point my priorities are different and i don't really want to risk more run-ins with the law down the road.

i have no idea if a regular PCT will work at this point. i have a decent amount of exemestane/letro on hand to hold off the estro sides and some clomid as well.

i figured maybe let my test levels drop while keeping the estro in check, that way i can avoid the worst of the estro sides (gyno etc) tough out the low test for a bit then go see an endo? or maybe a TRT specific doc would be better? i don't really look too "on" so i don't think that would be an issue.

alternately i could try maybe the usual nolva/clomid HCG PCT but most of the protocols i see are for 8-10 week cycles so i'm not sure how i would modify that, duration or dose (or both) and just get bloods done?

wondering if anyone has any advice or similar experiences? or how to find a "generous" trt doc? any help would be appreciated at this point. i fucked up pretty bad and getting my life back on track from this point on would be a lot better without low test issues. thanks guys

deadpan

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 08:49:53 PM »
oh yeah and what kind of ai dosing would be good to keep the symptoms at bay? i think i'm fairly estro sensitive, have a bit of pubertal gyno and i'd need around 12.5mg/day exemestane during the more estro-heavy blasts (600/700wk with some dbol occasionally) so maybe double that, and 2.5mg letro if i start to feel my nips getting too itchy is what i was planning on

oni

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 08:54:24 PM »
Raloxifene @ 60mg/day will stop all estro sides
Triptoreline - one 100mcg shot will do it
Clomid 25mg/day for a month

Make sure all roids are out your system first

equipoise

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruiseE
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 09:55:39 PM »
Have researched this extensively.

Hcg and hmg

Clomid and torem

Hgh or a ghrp (proven to stimulate hpta.)

AI dose to reduce estro (high estro can cause reduced test levels also, like in obese men). But don't
Crush estro too much you will feel like shit


Do for a while (like a few months), then come off and let your body reach homeostasis

Last resort after 1 year of trying, then try triptorelin

If not then trt. Should be able to recover unless your test was naturally low to begin with . But recovery after
Long blasts can take months not
The 4-6 weeks normally touted on boards. Depends on your physiology
Also

BigRo

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2015, 06:34:31 AM »
Surely there is no need to combine HCG and HMG? 

Why Torem? I dont know much about it.

By stimulate the hpta do you mean naturally or artificially?

Which AI do you think is best for this purpose?

ritch

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2015, 09:30:25 AM »
Ah, the old pct question...  I ain't touching it, lol...
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equipoise

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2015, 11:23:12 AM »
Surely there is no need to combine HCG and HMG?  

Why Torem? I dont know much about it.

By stimulate the hpta do you mean naturally or artificially?

Which AI do you think is best for this purpose?

The HMG is just to cover all measures; it stimulates sperm production so I thought the OP might be interested in that.

Torem is another serm that made my balls swell up and gave me big loads. I think it was as good as or better than clomid for me. Some people report better results on it, but I think it's individual. Actually writing this I feel like coming off just to use the torem because it's a great feeling lol

I guess any AI would do? Some people would have high estro coming off so maybe something stronger like adex or letro would work. My first PCT is crushed my estro for a while before letting it slowly come back up, because I was afraid of estro rebound. I'm not sure if that was a good decision or not. But may be better to err on the side of caution and suppress estro a bit too much than too little because too high estro can hinder recovery.

I think the main thing is would be to use these PCT drugs to jump start your system, and then come off then and let your body reach homeostasis

Also if you don't like TRT some people report good test level elevations on low doses of clomid, like 25mg a day

deadpan

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 11:31:12 AM »
 
Have researched this extensively.

Hcg and hmg

Clomid and torem

Hgh or a ghrp (proven to stimulate hpta.)

AI dose to reduce estro (high estro can cause reduced test levels also, like in obese men). But don't
Crush estro too much you will feel like shit


Do for a while (like a few months), then come off and let your body reach homeostasis

Last resort after 1 year of trying, then try triptorelin

If not then trt. Should be able to recover unless your test was naturally low to begin with . But recovery after
Long blasts can take months not
The 4-6 weeks normally touted on boards. Depends on your physiology
Also

was hoping to avoid the triptorelin route unless completely necessary, i don't really mind doing trt since they'll let me take my scripts anywhere but ill look into this route

What are the chances of getting anything half decent trt wise for lifting? I'd honestly be fine with 200mg/wk I think but from what I've seen not many will prescribe that much esp at my age. Idk if I want to bring up my steroid use, I know that can stay on medical records forever but idk

equipoise

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 11:57:04 AM »

was hoping to avoid the triptorelin route unless completely necessary, i don't really mind doing trt since they'll let me take my scripts anywhere but ill look into this route

What are the chances of getting anything half decent trt wise for lifting? I'd honestly be fine with 200mg/wk I think but from what I've seen not many will prescribe that much esp at my age. Idk if I want to bring up my steroid use, I know that can stay on medical records forever but idk

I think most anti-aging clinics will only see you if you're above 30. But if you can find a sympathetic doctor and tell him that it's affecting your work performance and relationship with your wife/gf (which is entirely true, low test can cause these problems), then you might be able to get help. I actually think a lot of middle aged men are prescribed antidepressants when in reality they need TRT. But you can prob only get a script for something that puts you at about 800 test levels maybe. Good for libido, mental well being, blood work, good health, and fat loss, but probably not much gains muscle wise. I think if your doc is liberal you might get 200mg but that's a bit unusual I think.

If you are in the US I think it's not too hard to get TRT actually. It's almost unheard of in a lot of other countries.

Prob not wise to bring up AAS use unless you really have to. You would prob get a lot more sympathy if you went to one of these "anti-aging", "rejuvenation", or "wellness" clinics, as opposed to a family doc or urologist. Look out for ads with a jacked/fit looking older doctor on it, he would prob be on TRT himself and understand the benefits of testosterone.

You can try looking up nebido (testosterone undecanoate). It's injected every 10-12 weeks or something, depending on how fast you metabolise it. I read a study comparing nebido to test enanthate, nebido had more favourable pharmacokinetics because of more stable levels or something like that. I think nebido is the only thing they prescribe in the UK now. Supposed to be good. It's convenient because if your trt is only a few injects a year I don't think it's really a problem. Also, you can travel to Africa or whatever random places for long periods and still be good. If you really want to blast occasionally you could use prop or whatever other compound you wish when you feel like it.

The most "natural" TRT would actually be injecting a small amount of test prop everyday. Like 10-15mg. This can be done sub-q I think. Because it mimics the natural release of testosterone. Also would prob eliminate the need for an AI in most men. Don't forget that high estro is a health hazard also (but when you have high test you need the higher estro to maintain the proper ratio for good sex drive). Only downside is the ED injects.

Or just move to a country where you can buy test OTC without prescription legally, these I know: Thailand, Iran, Serbia. But I think there's a reason why people would rather live in first-world countries like the US than in some of these others. Thailand is prob the best out of all of these (girls, sun, OTC AAS, cheap, good food)

Naltrexone is also supposed to stimulated the HPTA in opioid users (opioid users have suppressed test production). But I dunno if it works for AAS users.  

I think you have to find a test level that works for you personally. Some people are fine at lower levels, others are not. Excessively high test levels might shorten your lifespan indirectly by making you engage in more risky behaviours. I think a good test level (I'm referring to one about overall good life, not muscle gain) is one that gives you good motivation and energy but not too much aggression and risk-seeking behaviour.

There's also the issue of SHBG and free test and what not. But I don't really know much about these. I have heard taking stinging nettle root helps to elevate free testosterone levels. But watch your prostate

deadpan

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 05:01:54 PM »
Wow thanks for all the info, yeah I figured being younger would rule me out in a lot of places but with crashed test showing up on blood work it would probably be a lot easier. And I definitely know what you mean about finding the right test levels, looking back now i was taking way more than i needed anyways a lot of the time. Have heard about nebido, seems pretty good for maintaining a pretty normal life with travel and such, not having to pin constantly. The wellness clinic ad sounds like a pretty good tipoff too, i didn't really even know how to start looking for one.

I hear they tend to be pricey and don't always accept insurance though. Guess I will find out, I think I will go the pct route in the meantime though and hope for the best. Might try some of the natural remedies like you said too.

theworm

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2015, 06:38:03 PM »
Just google dr scally pct protocol

Hcg 2000 iu EOD x 20 days
Clomid 50 twice a day for 30 days
Nolva 25 x 45 days


Start all 2-3 weeks after las injection
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ritch

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2015, 09:55:23 PM »
Just google dr scally pct protocol

Hcg 2000 iu EOD x 20 days
Clomid 50 twice a day for 30 days
Nolva 25 x 45 days


Start all 2-3 weeks after las injection


this or something close to it is what I'd do. DoN't see how it wouldn't work. Can just be expensive but if you wanna recover, do it right.
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BigRo

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2015, 01:07:45 AM »
hcg is best used during cycle not after. Also combining HCG with Serms defeats the purpose. Just from what I have read.

ritch

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2015, 01:19:30 AM »
hcg is best used during cycle not after. Also combining HCG with Serms defeats the purpose. Just from what I have read.

Hmmm, HUGE disagreement here. There is NO GUARANTEE on cycle use of hcg will keep your nuts working and if not mistaken, an actual study was done using that very cycle to resotre full HTPA function. But think they even used an AI in the pct as well, so I'm not sure it's this pct.

 If on cycle use of HCG really worked, everyone would use it and never suffer shut down, this is clearly not that case. ON cycle hcg use can keep your balls full, that's all, total waste of cash as women don't even care about that, just ask our good friend Rich Piana!!!

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Jizmo

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 01:33:28 AM »
Hmmm, HUGE disagreement here. There is NO GUARANTEE on cycle use of hcg will keep your nuts working and if not mistaken, an actual study was done using that very cycle to resotre full HTPA function. But think they even used an AI in the pct as well, so I'm not sure it's this pct.

 If on cycle use of HCG really worked, everyone would use it and never suffer shut down, this is clearly not that case. ON cycle hcg use can keep your balls full, that's all, total waste of cash as women don't even care about that, just ask our good friend Rich Piana!!!


hcg does keep your balls working. in the way of producing testosterone, not necessarily sperm.
hcg mimicks luteinizing hormone, which signals your balls to produce testosterone basically. FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), which causes spermatogenesis, is still shut down during hcg use afaik.
but most people do seem to produce sperm when they produce testosterone anyway. at least the loads are bigger (doesnt mean theres actual sperm in it though). what works to keep FSH AND LH up is HMB as far as i know.

HOWEVER hcg still shuts you down EVEN BY ITSELF, because its an LH analogue and the body therefore shuts down LH production.
as soon as you get off the HCG you stop producing testosterone (thats why using it during PCT is stupid too) and youre just as shut down as from AAS.

honestly i wouldnt worry about using HCG.
if you want bigger loads on cycle / blast there are other options.
i just run a vial hcg here and there maybe once or twice a year, just so that i dont wake up to an empty ballsac one day lol

ritch

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2015, 01:40:23 AM »
hcg does keep your balls working. in the way of producing testosterone, not necessarily sperm.
hcg mimicks luteinizing hormone, which signals your balls to produce testosterone basically. FSH, which causes spermatogenesis, is still shut down during hcg use afaik. but most people do seem to produce sperm when they produce testosterone anyway.

HOWEVER hcg still shuts you down EVEN BY ITSELF, because its an LH analogue and the body therefore shuts down LH production.
as soon as you get off the HCG you stop producing testosterone (thats why using it during PCT is stupid too) and youre just as shut down as from AAS.


Then I guess we can agree HCG is just money you could have spent on more test, lol...
Not sure I believe the last paragraph as there is a study using HCG in pct and that one is shown to medically work. But you said "hcg by itself..." and in the study, it was not hcg by itself, so maybe it was the other stuff like serms and ai's? Ah, who the fuck knows, whatever, staying on and that's all there is to it..

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heenok

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2015, 01:57:39 AM »
Ive done the "power pct" stuff once.
If i had to do it again i would just use Aromasin and Clomid, HCG while still ON gear.
Serms usually make you feel like shit and have a whole lot of sides. I would rely on the aromasin a little bit of clomid and good OTC test boosters.

ritch

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2015, 02:00:53 AM »
Ive done the "power pct" stuff once.
If i had to do it again i would just use Aromasin and Clomid, HCG while still ON gear.
Serms usually make you feel like shit and have a whole lot of sides. I would rely on the aromasin a little bit of clomid and good OTC test boosters.

this is why the pct issue is so individual. Most i talk to, don't like clomid, prefer serms,lol and is why the question can only be answered by finding out what's best for you...
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Jizmo

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2015, 02:20:26 AM »
Then I guess we can agree HCG is just money you could have spent on more test, lol...
Not sure I believe the last paragraph as there is a study using HCG in pct and that one is shown to medically work. But you said "hcg by itself..." and in the study, it was not hcg by itself, so maybe it was the other stuff like serms and ai's? Ah, who the fuck knows, whatever, staying on and that's all there is to it..

yes, AAS wouldve been a better investment (always, lol).
if you have the same study in mind that i do then it actually ended right after the HCG use stopped. i dont know if were talking about the same one, but ive seen a study that shows full "recovery" 7 days or so after the last HCG injection... which is not even enough for it to get out of your system basically

they mightve also used clomid in the study, which POTENTIALLY works on cycle too, at least to keep jizz production up and your balls full  :D...

i dont know. i personally find the concept of PCTing stupid anyway. i guess we agree on that too lol
but yeah since the op has no choice...
triptorelin seemed promising when i did some research on it about a year ago. dunno if/how the stance on that has changed
stay on or stay off :) no half assed shit

Mad-scientist

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2015, 03:11:46 AM »
Nolvadex and clomid always worked for me. I have heard lots of mixed opinions about hcg being used during pct. My last pct was clomid at 100mgs for two weeks then 50mgs for two weeks. And i dosed my nolvadex at 50mgs a day for 2 weeks then 25mgs for another 4 weeks. If I were you i might just go to a endocronoligist and be honest with the guy but that always has the ability to back fire on you depending on the doctor. If you do go to jail it would be HORRIBLE having your testosterone levels crash that hard while in jail. I think i would personally go to a doctor/endo if i had been cruising for that long and deal with whatever consequences that came about from that but thats just me it could be bad advice. I guess my thinking is that once your in jail getting medical attention is going to be alot harder and the doctors who treat you will consider you untrustworthy when dealing with controlled substances. So it might be good to establish with a doctor that you have low testosterone so you can possibly get the treatment you need while in jail.

theworm

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2015, 05:33:05 AM »
Here's the deal, there's bro science like don't use serms with hcg etc,

Then there is scally pct protocol, which has science behind it, his studies show near return of normal test production after long term aas use.   

I like scally pct plus sermorelin plus ghrp2 ... I hold all my weight for the most part, just not as defined as before
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deadpan

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2015, 06:34:57 AM »
Nolvadex and clomid always worked for me. I have heard lots of mixed opinions about hcg being used during pct. My last pct was clomid at 100mgs for two weeks then 50mgs for two weeks. And i dosed my nolvadex at 50mgs a day for 2 weeks then 25mgs for another 4 weeks. If I were you i might just go to a endocronoligist and be honest with the guy but that always has the ability to back fire on you depending on the doctor. If you do go to jail it would be HORRIBLE having your testosterone levels crash that hard while in jail. I think i would personally go to a doctor/endo if i had been cruising for that long and deal with whatever consequences that came about from that but thats just me it could be bad advice. I guess my thinking is that once your in jail getting medical attention is going to be alot harder and the doctors who treat you will consider you untrustworthy when dealing with controlled substances. So it might be good to establish with a doctor that you have low testosterone so you can possibly get the treatment you need while in jail.

 that's what I was thinking but from what I've heard endos are usually the last to prescribe hrt, I guess I could say I used prohormones since those are legal but still cause shutdown. The charges aren't for controlled substance and they said I can get my scripts in jail but idk. My court date isn't set yet so ill have to see what the best option is but I guess I figured pcting would probably be faster than finding a willing hrt doc. But idk, I'm seeing a few "age management" clinics in my area pimping hrt so with low test I could probably get it, whether or not I can afford it I will have to see, ill look into the dr scally routine.

My idea for using hcg was to restore ball size, I guess I should do that before starting the serms but idk how long I have, ill have to see the court date in the next few days. Will keep you guys posted, thanks for all the help    

skalpa

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2015, 10:27:59 AM »
Triptorelin! (GNRH) im a big believer in this. i ran 20 weeks of 19-nors and it brought my test levels back to 700ng/dl with 4 weeks after serm treatment.

my pct looked like this
1x 100mcg triptorelin
followed by 4 weeks of:
faraston (toremifene citrate) 120/120/60/60
clomid 100/100/50/50
aromasin 12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25

this pct has treated me very good. give it a try

gettingbetter

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2015, 10:25:51 PM »
hcg is best used during cycle not after. Also combining HCG with Serms defeats the purpose. Just from what I have read.

Absolutely! No hcg for pct has it mimicks lh, hence you won't produce any, which is what you want by using Nolva or chlomid.


deadpan

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Re: Emergency PCT/TRT 2.5 yrs blast (mostly) cruise
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2015, 09:51:38 PM »
ok so i did more research and it looks like long-term use recovery isn't anywhere near an exact science and could potentially take months, idk if i want to try the triptorellin bc i'm scared shitless about burning out my pituitary since it's used for chemical castration in higher doses and it seems the difference is in the microgram range so what with research labs and such the dosing might be off.

it doesn't help that i fucked up and didn't use HCG on cycle so at this point i'm looking at try PCT and hopefully succeed but potentially fail and still eat up monetary resources and need TRT anyways, or go straight to TRT

i think i will try the TRT route, no doubt my test will be crashed by the time i see a doc since i injected last (enanthate) over 8 days ago so my plan is this:

find TRT clinic
tell him i had low-t symptoms earlier in life (this is true, what led me to aas in the first place)
tell him i used prohormones for years (same sides and HPTA suppression but probably sounds a lot better than saying aas) and have testicular atrophy
ask for TRT script and HCG to restore testicular size

maybe then after being on HCG for a while and restoring testicular size/leydig sensitivity i can try PCT and going off, but since i'm not that far from 30 might be worth just staying on. i was planning on doing TRT later in life anyways. and shit if i get undecanoate that would pretty much be the best outcome.

idk i'm weighing my options and this seems to be the most foolproof method of preventing steroid crash in prison which quite frankly has me scared shitless. fortunately from some other forums i think TRT might be reasonably affordable. fingers crossed. i guess i'll report back with my results. maybe someone can learn from my example, thanks for the support everyone.