Dorian yates HIT?

[ritch]

Ritch, calm down, broskie. Get yourself a protein shake and take a nap. 

Just waking up now, eating "breakfast" now!
That nap may seem appealing a bit later on though...

[Van_Bilderass]

But going by that logic, then everyone uses the same principles as Dorian. Most people start off with lower weight and work their way up. Yet, Dorian was spouting this as if it was some special way of training. Its no different than the way most people train. Call it 5 sets call it 1 set, its the way most people train.

It is way different. It's the mind set like local hero said. One life or death set, giving it everything. You can't maintain that kind of mental or physical intensity for many sets. Most people do not train like that.

Reminds me of what that fool Poliquin said wrt "HIT"

For instance, one infamous trainer exhibits a fanatical obsession with one training method his to the exclusion of all others. His system requires only a fraction of the time required by most other programs, but it's difficult to do it for more than a few weeks because it requires that the trainee be either mentally disturbed or addicted to amphetamines in order to keep up the degree of effort required.

[Dr Dutch]

The Colorado experiment was basically a fraud. All Casey Viator did was regain the muscle he had lost. Muscle memory. Arthur Jones gained very little in comparison during the same experiment. Casey's numbers are always the ones mentioned though.

Colorado was for real but indeed: extreme muscle memory for an extraordinarily gifted and plentiful juiced BB....even then still amazing.

Says Dr Dutch (who knows his stuff)

[SF1900]

It is way different. It's the mind set like local hero said. One life or death set, giving it everything. You can't maintain that kind of mental or physical intensity for many sets. Most people do not train like that.

Reminds me of what that fool Poliquin said wrt "HIT"

Ive seen many people train to absolute failure during their last set.

Exactly, most people dont train like that, which is why most people do warm up sets, then do 1-2 sets to total failure. I dont see how this is any difference than the way Dorian trained.

If there was a normal gym rat training EXACTLY like Dorian, you wouldn't say its anything special. Youre only saying that because its Dorian.

[disco_stu]

Basically he did 2-4 warm ups and one work set?so he really did 4-5 sets per exercise but didnt count the other sets as anything more than a warm up so he was full of shit about that.same as most people just didnt count the first sets.I dont have warm up sets i just go to failure on all sets and therefore count them all.Sobyes the way you have it is correct.

you clearly dont get it.

2 warm up sets, stopping well short of failure.

then the philosophy is that you grow from the combination of all out effort in the least amount of time, but achieving a number of reps that stimulates muscle growth- so 6-10 or so.

hardly full of shit. most people cannot comprehend, or have the guts to do a set to complete failure where they are busting eyeballs. they think of failure as "where it gets hard". the difference is subtle but important.

u spend all of your available energy at that moment moving the weight. any exercise after that can only be done with less energy, so cant achieve the same level of stimulation..unless of course that you didnt bust your eyeballs in the first place.

[Van_Bilderass]

Ive seen many people train to absolute failure during their last set.

Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.

You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.

Try the squat example. Try it for a few weeks. You MUST beat each squat session in either poundage or reps... do one or two sets a week... see how it goes.

[Simple Simon]

Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.

You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.

You can make a bicep fail with a 10k dumbell if you want to.
Once the lactic acid has built up then it simply wont contract

[Dr Dutch]

Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.

You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.

Try the squat example. Try it for a few weeks. You MUST beat each squat session in either poundage or reps... do one or two sets a week... see how it goes.

This is it exactly, VB....

[Van_Bilderass]

You can make a bicep fail with a 10k dumbell if you want to.
Once the lactic acid has built up then it simply wont contract

You're right. But lets say you just did a set of 10 to failure. Imagine then you would have won 1 million dollars had you done 11 reps. Might you have done 11 reps with that much money on the line? Your level of motivation means a lot. The HIT'ers believe something has to progress all the time, if you manage to do it that's what makes it taxing. And I do believe people have untapped strength potential a lot of the time but the motivation just isn't there.

And if you were to do something like that Casey Viator giant set for quads that's been posted many times it might put you in the hospital. I think I might die which is why I haven't attempted anything like it.

[wes]

Is this what he means by HIt? (im using one exercise below as an example)

bB Barbell curls?...
1. Warm up with 50lb, 15 reps
2. Warm up with 60lb , 12 reps
3. Working set 65 or 70lb, time under tension, slow controlled negative reps till cant move it anymore

Sure i could do a set with 100lb instead of 65, but thats too heavy for TUT with static holds etc.

Then on to another bicep movement ?

Sounds like pyramid training to me.

[Thong Maniac]

Sounds like pyramid training to me.

Right, but isnt my example a HIt dorian style approach, or am i far off?

[Simple Simon]

You're right. But lets say you just did a set of 10 to failure. Imagine then you would have won 1 million dollars had you done 11 reps. Might you have done 11 reps with that much money on the line? Your level of motivation means a lot. The HIT'ers believe something has to progress all the time, if you manage to do it that's what makes it taxing. And I do believe people have untapped strength potential a lot of the time but the motivation just isn't there.

And if you were to do something like that Casey Viator giant set for quads that's been posted many times it might put you in the hospital. I think I might die which is why I haven't attempted anything like it.

No, not if you had failed on 10, thats what failure means.

[wes]

I heard that HIT is a great way to tear a bicep.

[Van_Bilderass]

No, not if you had failed on 10, thats what failure means.

Yes yes I know failure is failure but don't you agree that level of motivation and level of arousal can affect performance? Why do many strength athletes hit PR's or world records during meets only?
I could mention the classic case of a mother trying to save her kid stuck under a wheel of a car and trying to lift it... motivation increases performance. I personally mentally record different max sets differently... some were "failure" and some were really failure where I extended myself extra much both mentally and physically.

[SF1900]

Failure is does not mean the same thing to all people, not at all. Everyone claims to
train to failure, and it may seem like they do. But training to failure in an HIT context
also means you are also trying to hit higher poundage or increase the reps each and every workout.
Most people are not trying to get stronger all the time and don't even try. But if you pressure yourself to do it it becomes a whole different thing very quickly. When you think you have one
single set to stimulate growth for that particular muscle each week it makes you pull out all the stops which most trainees do not do.

You can try it yourself. Take your best ever 8 rep max on say squats. Then next session you WILL beat it, and next after that and so on. You have been thinking about that set each week, it's life or death, you load up on tons of stimulants and oral steroids before hand and then get to work. Before long you will notice the difference between "failure" and Dorian/Mentzer type failure. Most people do not tap into those extra reserves because it is enormously taxing despite the low volume. I will give another example. A powerlifter does 9 singles max in a meet but every powerlifter will tell you how taxing a meet is, for some it may take months to recover from it. Why, it's only 9 singles? Because when your whole months/years build-up to that point is on the line you will give it much more than an average "workout" session, the average dude in the gym trying a few maxes simply does not extend himelf as far.

Try the squat example. Try it for a few weeks. You MUST beat each squat session in either poundage or reps... do one or two sets a week... see how it goes.

But it almost impossible to try and increase poundage or reps each workout, unless you do the same exact exercises in the same exact order every workout. t

If workout 1 consist of me doing bench press as my first exercise, and I max out at 450 for 2 reps (obviously not true). Then if I train chest a week later (workout 2) and do bench press 2nd or 3rd in my workout, its almost going to be impossible to get more than 450 for 2+ reps, considering Ill be tired. Its not going to be an accurate gauge if I am getting stronger or not, just because I can't get 450 for 2+ reps if I am now doing bench press 2nd or 3rd exercise in my workout. It wouldn't then be a realistic goal.

[Dr Dutch]

HIT will work but just isn't a pleasant way to train....well I don't like it. This is still a hobby.

[Van_Bilderass]

But it almost impossible to try and increase poundage or reps each workout, unless you do the same exact exercises in the same exact order every workout. t

If workout 1 consist of me doing bench press as my first exercise, and I max out at 450 for 2 reps (obviously not true). Then if I train chest a week later (workout 2) and do bench press 2nd or 3rd in my workout, its almost going to be impossible to get more than 450 for 2+ reps, considering Ill be tired. Its not going to be an accurate gauge if I am getting stronger or not, just because I can't get 450 for 2+ reps if I am now doing bench press 2nd or 3rd exercise in my workout. It wouldn't then be a realistic goal.

That's exactly it, people switch their exercises around all the time and can't properly gauge progress. The end result is that they aren't really getting stronger. Now, it's impossible to increase loads each and every workout but if you are highly motivated to at least try your very best it will make it very taxing both mentally and physically. One could take Dorian's template and try it with a very intense mindset of trying for progress every workout and they will notice it's very taxing if they're putting a lot of pressure on themselves.

I will say that this style of training is dangerous so I'm not necessarily endorsing it.

I wouldn't say Dorian's "to failure sets" weren't any more intense than some volume trainers "failure" sets. I know some pros have claimed they do like 30 sets to failure each workout but they are pacing themselves. It's impossible to do high volume with 100% effort put into each set. I bet Phil Heath also does every set to failure, or will claim he does... but is it Dorian's kind of failure? It's not.

[Simple Simon]

That's exactly it, people switch their exercises around all the time and can't properly gauge progress. The end result is that they aren't really getting stronger. Now, it's impossible to increase loads each and every workout but if you are highly motivated to at least try your very best it will make it very taxing both mentally and physically. One could take Dorian's template and try it with a very intense mindset of trying for progress every workout and they will notice it's very taxing if they're putting a lot of pressure on themselves.

I will say that this style of training is dangerous so I'm not necessarily endorsing it.

I wouldn't say Dorian's "to failure sets" weren't any more intense than some volume trainers "failure" sets. I know some pros have claimed they do like 30 sets to failure each workout but they are pacing themselves. It's impossible to do high volume with 100% effort put into each set. I bet Phil Heath also does every set to failure, or will claim he does... but is it Dorian's kind of failure? It's not.

You can train hard or you can train long, you cant train hard and long.

[ritch]

You can train hard or you can train long, you cant train hard and long.

that's very true.

[Waller]

You're right. But lets say you just did a set of 10 to failure. Imagine then you would have won 1 million dollars had you done 11 reps. Might you have done 11 reps with that much money on the line? Your level of motivation means a lot. The HIT'ers believe something has to progress all the time, if you manage to do it that's what makes it taxing. And I do believe people have untapped strength potential a lot of the time but the motivation just isn't there.

And if you were to do something like that Casey Viator giant set for quads that's been posted many times it might put you in the hospital. I think I might die which is why I haven't attempted anything like it.

A part of the brain acts to prevent you using your full strength the majority of the time. It's a failsafe against injury. It's where these stories of superhuman strength in highly stressful situations come from.

I saw a study where a guy was asked to exert his full strength on a static leg extension machine that measures force, after getting measurements they used magnetic pulses to temporarily deactivate a portion of his brain. Afterwards his strength increased greatly.

[Simple Simon]

A part of the brain acts to prevent you using your full strength the majority of the time. It's a failsafe against injury. It's where these stories of superhuman strength in highly stressful situations come from.

I saw a study where a guy was asked to exert his full strength on a static leg extension machine that measures force, after getting measurements they used magnetic pulses to temporarily deactivate a portion of his brain. Afterwards his strength increased greatly.

Ronnie Colemans strength explained.

[dj181]

You can train hard or you can train long, you cant train hard and long.

he said it 1st

[Donny]

How many HIT champions were Mr O ? 

[Donny]

I heard that HIT is a great way to tear a bicep.

Each to his own... but i would rather train like Pearl did than any of these HIT guys. Although Pearls volume is more than i would do.  Of course Volume trainers donīt do 30 sets to failure who the fuck could? Near failure but not failure.

[stavios]

After 6 weeks or so, it's simply a nightmare.
I can't belive someone would train 6 days a week doing that.

You almost get anxious before every workout.
I've been doing this the last few weeks and had to do some light sessions this weeks cause I always fear i'm on the verge of tearing something.