usa pie chart of spending...

[pellius]

I am ok with a person who makes a lot paying his fair share. I don't like the flat tax idea as a person making 15K a year is struggling to survive. However, I think if you make 50k a year you should have skin in the game. If you make a million, you should have to pay a fixed rate based on your value. However, remember the asset tax could cut both ways as a lot of wealthy individuals have debt in the way of mortgages, business expenses, etc.

Instead of looking at it globally, look at their end of the year 1099 and K1's, and base their tax on that value. I am a physician and my salary is not fixed, it is fluid based on the medicare reimbursement and my overall practice growth rate minus overhead. CEO's who are worth millions could easily bypass this as they could take a 1 dollar salary. However, they get income from dividends and stock assets and options. Place a fixed rate on these assets that are paying out.

However, you have to admit that the Obumbo administration has grown the government to no end. The IRS has added thousands of employees to go after those so called tax cheats. Eliminate the IRS, the complex tax rules, and deductions and everybody will pay their fair share.

Maybe, if corporate taxes are kept low, Apple will move some of their 200 billion to the USA.

It depends how you define fairness. One definition is that everyone has an equal chance to succeed. The other is everyone plays by the same rules. You can have one but not the other. In fact, one guarantees you can't have the other. If everyone plays by the same rules you guarantee that everyone will not have an equal chance for success. For everyone to have an equal chance to succeed. You would have to skew the game to compensate for the differences in a variety of factors: talent, hard work, education, ambition... For instance, say you had a foot race between ten people. How would you guarantee or increase the odds that they all finish at the same time? Either everyone would have to slow down so the slowest runner can keep up or give the slower runners a head start. Or a host other factors to insure NOT equality of opportunity but equality of results. A lot of social engineering, often with unforeseen consequences, has to be done to insure equality of results. And who should decide this?

Should a rich person have to pay more for a loaf of bread than a poor person because he can?

Ask yourself why someone is a millionaire and why someone is poor? Why a business is successful and why some fail? Putting aside luck, that vast majority are successful because they are more productive. They are able to provide a good or service that people want and are willing to pay for and in a very real sense improve the quality of life for other people. Arnold is so successful because he provided a service that people wanted and were willing to pay for and in the process made himself and many others rich. When someone has to pay more taxes the more money they make you are in a sense punishing success. With a flat tax a rich person is still going to be paying way more than a poor person. But why should they have to pay an additional amount just because they were so successful and in the process contributed to other people's success?

Again, it's like forcing a rich person to pay more for a loaf of bread just because they have more money and how much extra they have to pay is always arbitrary based on those who simply want to take more of what you have for themselves. Remember, higher taxes don't go to the poor. They go to the government. And what makes you think that the government can spend money better that they have simply taken from others than those who have had to actually earned it?  

[Thin Lizzy]

How about an asset tax?  Add up the value of everything you own: property, savings, investments, and once a year you pay a few percent of that as taxes.  This prevents the rich from deferring their income to avoid income tax, and discourages the rich from locking their wealth away where it doesn't contribute to the economy. A poor person who makes just enough to live on would have few if any assets so the tax would be very progressive.

By the way, the primary purpose of the bureaucrats in the IRS is to guarantee everyone pays their share.  Making the IRS smaller means there are fewer audits and therefore less risk of cheating on your taxes.

I understand that on Planet Huffpo the rich squirrel all their money away and poor shoulder the burden. However, reality tells a different story.

Liberals are unbelievable. The few million a year CEOs make is too much, but the 3.8 TRILLION a year the Federal government spends isn't enough.

[Voice of Doom]

A flat tax discourages consumption from the poor and lower middle class.  Which is EXACTLY what they need to be doing.  Saving money.  Saved money becomes capital. 

The tax system needs to reward hard work and thrift.  A progressive tax system punishes success and discourages growth.

[nicorulez]

Guys I agree with all of this. I am in the 39.6 % and paid more taxes last year and the last ten than I want to imagine. I am trying to negotiate with liberals; it is difficult. I agree that if you work harder and get an education, you deserve to make more. I went to four years of College, four years of Medical School, three years of residency, and then a two year (now it is three) year fellowship to become a specialist in nephrology. I get it.

However, I do have a heart and realize some people really are struggling and they are not lazy. I have a poor guy who works two jobs, tries to eat right, goes to all of his doctor appointments, and he is unlucky enough to have severe kidney disease through no fault of his own (he has FSGS which is what took out Alonzo Mourning's kidneys). I give the guy a break. I charge his insurance, and write of his co-pays or balances. Dude is not out there making babies, acting like a thug, and is extremely respectful.

I think the problem is that there are so many takers in this society because of the libs and their policies to entitle people to gain votes that hard working Americans get fed up. Thus, I don't mind paying my taxes as long as I am not being gouged (cough...Obama). However, I think everyone should have some skin in the game even a little bit. I would love a flat tax personally (it would definitely benefit me), but I worry that it would harm those Americans who work hard and are really struggling to make ends meat. Thus, I was trying to be a compassionate conservative. Hell, I just think a good first step would be to vote all politicians out of office and start afresh. Also, get rid of the IRS.

[nicorulez]

It depends how you define fairness. One definition is that everyone has an equal chance to succeed. The other is everyone plays by the same rules. You can have one but not the other. In fact, one guarantees you can't have the other. If everyone plays by the same rules you guarantee that everyone will not have an equal chance for success. For everyone to have an equal chance to succeed. You would have to skew the game to compensate for the differences in a variety of factors: talent, hard work, education, ambition... For instance, say you had a foot race between ten people. How would you guarantee or increase the odds that they all finish at the same time? Either everyone would have to slow down so the slowest runner can keep up or give the slower runners a head start. Or a host other factors to insure NOT equality of opportunity but equality of results. A lot of social engineering, often with unforeseen consequences, has to be done to insure equality of results. And who should decide this?

Should a rich person have to pay more for a loaf of bread than a poor person because he can?

Ask yourself why someone is a millionaire and why someone is poor? Why a business is successful and why some fail? Putting aside luck, that vast majority are successful because they are more productive. They are able to provide a good or service that people want and are willing to pay for and in a very real sense improve the quality of life for other people. Arnold is so successful because he provided a service that people wanted and were willing to pay for and in the process made himself and many others rich. When someone has to pay more taxes the more money they make you are in a sense punishing success. With a flat tax a rich person is still going to be paying way more than a poor person. But why should they have to pay an additional amount just because they were so successful and in the process contributed to other people's success?

Again, it's like forcing a rich person to pay more for a loaf of bread just because they have more money and how much extra they have to pay is always arbitrary based on those who simply want to take more of what you have for themselves. Remember, higher taxes don't go to the poor. They go to the government. And what makes you think that the government can spend money better that they have simply taken from others than those who have had to actually earned it?  

You make a great final point. Think about government programs and the bloat and bureaucracy. I can't name a single government agency that is run well or program that is profitable or efficient.

[Voice of Doom]

Guys I agree with all of this. I am in the 39.6 % and paid more taxes last year and the last ten than I want to imagine. I am trying to negotiate with liberals; it is difficult. I agree that if you work harder and get an education, you deserve to make more. I went to four years of College, four years of Medical School, three years of residency, and then a two year (now it is three) year fellowship to become a specialist in nephrology. I get it.

However, I do have a heart and realize some people really are struggling and they are not lazy. I have a poor guy who works two jobs, tries to eat right, goes to all of his doctor appointments, and he is unlucky enough to have severe kidney disease through no fault of his own (he has FSGS which is what took out Alonzo Mourning's kidneys). I give the guy a break. I charge his insurance, and write of his co-pays or balances. Dude is not out there making babies, acting like a thug, and is extremely respectful.

I think the problem is that there are so many takers in this society because of the libs and their policies to entitle people to gain votes that hard working Americans get fed up. Thus, I don't mind paying my taxes as long as I am not being gouged (cough...Obama). However, I think everyone should have some skin in the game even a little bit. I would love a flat tax personally (it would definitely benefit me), but I worry that it would harm those Americans who work hard and are really struggling to make ends meat. Thus, I was trying to be a compassionate conservative. Hell, I just think a good first step would be to vote all politicians out of office and start afresh. Also, get rid of the IRS.

you sound like a decent man.  That patient is lucky to have you.

[nicorulez]

Thank you Doom that means a lot coming from a respected member like yourself. I went into medicine because I really do like my patients. Overwhelmingly, these are hard working people of all races, creeds, religions, and age who don't milk the system. Obviously, there are those of milk the system, but that is to be expected. I think the reason I look at it a little differently from most of my colleagues is I was a patient distantly. After medical school, I was diagnosed with lymphoma and had to take almost three years off to get treated. Thus, I know struggle and I understand the abject terror that an individual faces when they are dealing with a life changing or even threatening illness. I digress, there is nothing wrong with working hard and being successful. I think Pellius would agree that if you do well and are eminently comfortable, there is nothing wrong with you giving back to causes you champion. I agree, paying more taxes likely does not nothing long term to help the poor. More likely, the money will go into a black hole somewhere in Washington. Oh well, I guess we can each do our little part to help the world.

[Marty Champions]

Thank you Doom that means a lot coming from a respected member like yourself. I went into medicine because I really do like my patients. Overwhelmingly, these are hard working people of all races, creeds, religions, and age who don't milk the system. Obviously, there are those of milk the system, but that is to be expected. I think the reason I look at it a little differently from most of my colleagues is I was a patient distantly. After medical school, I was diagnosed with lymphoma and had to take almost three years off to get treated. Thus, I know struggle and I understand the abject terror that an individual faces when they are dealing with a life changing or even threatening illness. I digress, there is nothing wrong with working hard and being successful. I think Pellius would agree that if you do well and are eminently comfortable, there is nothing wrong with you giving back to causes you champion. I agree, paying more taxes likely does not nothing long term to help the poor. More likely, the money will go into a black hole somewhere in Washington. Oh well, I guess we can each do our little part to help the world.

why not stop eating meat

[nicorulez]

why not stop eating meat

Bro, I love meat but I hear you. I know our beef is loaded with unhealthy chemicals. I'm twenty years cancer free and in pretty decent shape for a guy who is 45 and doesn't have any bad habits except for a glass of red wine. Are you a vegetarian Marty.

[pellius]

Guys I agree with all of this. I am in the 39.6 % and paid more taxes last year and the last ten than I want to imagine. I am trying to negotiate with liberals; it is difficult. I agree that if you work harder and get an education, you deserve to make more. I went to four years of College, four years of Medical School, three years of residency, and then a two year (now it is three) year fellowship to become a specialist in nephrology. I get it.

However, I do have a heart and realize some people really are struggling and they are not lazy. I have a poor guy who works two jobs, tries to eat right, goes to all of his doctor appointments, and he is unlucky enough to have severe kidney disease through no fault of his own (he has FSGS which is what took out Alonzo Mourning's kidneys). I give the guy a break. I charge his insurance, and write of his co-pays or balances. Dude is not out there making babies, acting like a thug, and is extremely respectful.

I think the problem is that there are so many takers in this society because of the libs and their policies to entitle people to gain votes that hard working Americans get fed up. Thus, I don't mind paying my taxes as long as I am not being gouged (cough...Obama). However, I think everyone should have some skin in the game even a little bit. I would love a flat tax personally (it would definitely benefit me), but I worry that it would harm those Americans who work hard and are really struggling to make ends meat. Thus, I was trying to be a compassionate conservative. Hell, I just think a good first step would be to vote all politicians out of office and start afresh. Also, get rid of the IRS.

How does raising taxes on the rich help poor people? They already pay the vast majority of the taxes. The top 1% pays over 30% of the taxes already. The bottom 50%  pay no income taxes at all.

[pellius]

why not stop eating meat

Because plants are people too.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

[jude2]

you sound like a decent man.  That patient is lucky to have you.

Agreed, hope nicorulz sticks around here.

[Mclovin]

   what do you make of it   

So where is Medicare and Medicaid supposed to be in this chart? Isn't that almost 1/3 of US annual expenditures?

[Mclovin]

I think this is more accurate...updated just a couple months ago.

[Mclovin]

So I assume food stamps would be part of that 11% for safety net programs.

[funk51]

 

[funk51]

  do you think he actually works 93 days a year?    how much extra does he make in kickbacks and bribes??

[Thin Lizzy]

do you think he actually works 93 days a year?    how much extra does he make in kickbacks and bribes??

You have a habit of omission.

The reason there are so many "Single Moms" in Da Hood is because the Liberal Welfare State took the father out of the equation.