My Interview with Phil Heath 7 weeks out

[Azure]

Actually, it doesn't seem too far fetched at all. Do you actually think NO other competitor saw him and wasn't thinking to himself, "What the hell is Phil doing?" Do you really think not ONE competitor was thinking this? Really? I bet some saw and were rolling their eyes and/or not pleased with it. I am sure quite a few guys saw this. And I do not think any of them would have the balls to point this out on stage, maybe except Kai. I think if anything was said, it was said behind closed doors.

Just my opinion. You obviously think differently.

I'm sure the others saw and said forget it. It's not worth the argument bc all it would have done is cast them in a more negative light

Is Phil respected by his peers? It's one thing to have rivalries and competition but how he he viewed in the eyes of his peers? That would be an interesting question

[Papper]

I'm sure the others saw and said forget it. It's not worth the argument bc all it would have done is cast them in a more negative light

Is Phil respected by his peers? It's one thing to have rivalries and competition but how he he viewed in the eyes of his peers? That would be an interesting question

I'm sure other narrow people respect him.

[SF1900]

Yeah - if it truly mattered, I would think someone would speak up.  That's why I think nobody cared.

The issue is that maybe it did matter in their minds, but for whatever reason, they didn't speak up.

Obviously, we can go back and forth all day. I disagree with you in the sense that if the competitors cared and it would have made a difference, they would have said something. I dont know about that. Also, even if it didnt matter, from a purely ethical POV, I don't agree with his actions (standing in front of the line).

Again, agree to disagree.

[mr.turbo]

Yeah - if it truly mattered, I would think someone would speak up.  That's why I think nobody cared.

^^ this is a valid argument.  

but the natural question that follows from this observation is; why does nobody care?

a couple reasonable answers:

1. the cheating doesn't matter because phil was so far superior that he would have won anyway.

2. the cheating doesn't matter because the outcome of the contest had already been determined.

 

[SF1900]

^^ this is a valid argument. 

but the natural question that follows from this observation is; why does nobody care?

a couple reasonable answers:

1. the cheating doesn't matter because phil was so far superior that he would have won anyway.

2. the cheating matter because the outcome of the contest had already determined.

 

As I stated, from an ethical POV, point 1 doesnt matter. Just because you know youre going to win cheating is still wrong. Ronnie blew away the competition year after year. He never stepped in front of the line.

[Grape Ape]

^^ this is a valid argument. 

but the natural question that follows from this observation is; why does nobody care?

a couple reasonable answers:

1. the cheating doesn't matter because phil was so far superior that he would have won anyway.

2. the cheating matter because the outcome of the contest had already determined.

 

Or, the cheating doesn't matter because  the judges aren't complete dipshits who can be swayed by someone standing a little closer.

I think all three are valid.

[mr.turbo]

As I stated, from an ethical POV, point 1 doesnt matter. Just because you know youre going to win cheating is still wrong. Ronnie blew away the competition year after year. He never stepped in front of the line.

Agreed, in general.

I'm trying to clarify the context of this particular case.  These guys are all loaded up on pharmaceuticals, which can be construed as cheating technically but it's not considered unfair and nobody complains about that for obvious reasons. (cheating is unethical when it's unfair)

what's not so clear is why nobody complains about this type of action which clearly undermines what should be a fair judging process...hmmm  

[SF1900]

Agreed, in general.

I'm trying to clarify the context of this particular case.  These guys are all loaded up on pharmaceuticals, which can be construed as cheating technically but it's not considered unfair and nobody complains about that for obvious reasons. (cheating is unethical when it's unfair)

what's not so clear is why nobody complains about this type of action which clearly undermines what should be a fair judging process...hmmm  

Yes, but the difference is that they are ALL on drugs.

But only ONE person stepped in front of the line: Phil Cheath.

[mr.turbo]

Yes, but the difference is that they are ALL on drugs.

But only ONE person stepped in front of the line: Phil Cheath.

nobody claims that phil blew everyone away with his physique that year (2012).

So why did the officials and the competitors allow him to get away with this?

Nobody complains afterward? It's very strange. (remember this is the biggest contest of the year prize money is 250k)

Call me a conspiracy nut but seems like the only reasonable answer is that the contest was fixed.

[illuminati]

For those that watched this one, you will see where I am heading. Not the average interview about chicken and rice, set or reps or boring shit.

So who would you like to see interviewed next?

Phill has brought a great physique to the Olympia A Couple of times
The last being 2011.

I have seen / meet Phil a couple of times 4/5 months out from the Olympia
Other than Big Soft Bloated Arms ( possibly full of oil )
There was not much to him at all size wise or condition.
Clearly completely transforms for the Olympia ( or his twin competes.ha )

As for others to interview.
Arnold. Phil made a huge mistake by bashing Arnold.

Dorian. Fairly straight talking is Dorian.

Cedric.

Lee P.  He seems to be prepared to speak openly about the Ridiculous
Nonseness of All the Poliitics.

Lee H.  Has always conducted himself very well.

Tom.P if he is willing to talk openly.

Phil is MR.O.  Last couple of years it's very debatable if he deserved to win.
Sadly for him he is just Not a Likeable MR.O

[Azure]

nobody claims that phil blew everyone away with his physique that year (2012).

So why did the officials and the competitors allow him to get away with this?

Nobody complains afterward? It's very strange. (remember this is the biggest contest of the year prize money is 250k)

Call me a conspiracy nut but seems like the only reasonable answer is that the contest was fixed.

But isn't it always?  I thought that unless the champ is just blown out, then the same person wins.  

I kind of feel like people are just nitpicking

[mr.turbo]

But isn't it always?  I thought that unless the champ is just blown out, then the same person wins.  

I kind of feel like people are just nitpicking

you can say this but the argument tends to rest on subjective assessments of the physiques. what's different here is that there's a clear record and it's completely objective. 

There's absolutely nothing to debate when you cross the line. That's what "lines" are for objectivity. (in most sports you get disqualified upon review of these types of infractions)     

Either we are watching a "contest" or we are watching something else. 

[illuminati]

you can say this but the argument tends to rest on subjective assessments of the physiques. what's different here is that there's a clear record and it's completely objective. 

There's absolutely nothing to debate when you cross the line. That's what "lines" are for objectivity. (in most sports you get disqualified upon review of these types of infractions)     

Either we are watching a "contest" or we are watching something else. 

You make very clear & valid point.
👍🏻

[mr.turbo]

You make very clear & valid point.
👍🏻

In a normal world, the guy would have been disqualified immediately, if not later upon review.

so how at the mr.olympia, the biggest show of the year, does the cheater end up winning the "contest" and nobody complains?

I don't understand what's going on here. 

phil cheated blatantly, yet won the show and received 250k.

perhaps this was not brought to the IFBB's attention?

[mr.turbo]

Or, the cheating doesn't matter because  the judges aren't complete dipshits who can be swayed by someone standing a little closer.

I think all three are valid.

given that we have a photographic record, the dipshit factor of the judges can be adjusted later if necessary.  This is what happens in every other sport.

[SF1900]

nobody claims that phil blew everyone away with his physique that year (2012).

So why did the officials and the competitors allow him to get away with this?

Nobody complains afterward? It's very strange. (remember this is the biggest contest of the year prize money is 250k)

Call me a conspiracy nut but seems like the only reasonable answer is that the contest was fixed.

This is what I love: getbiggers arguing about the important issues in life: bodybuilding.

[SF1900]

Or, the cheating doesn't matter because  the judges aren't complete dipshits who can be swayed by someone standing a little closer.

I think all three are valid.

You give too much credit to IFBB judges.

And, again, its just different perspectives.

I will say it AGAIN: I don't think standing closer helped him win, nor do I think it swayed the judges decision. I agree with you on that.

However, (a) its still cheating, no matter how you look at it, and (b) it gives you a glimpse into Phil's personality, i.e., that he will try and bend the rules to his advantage (whether or not he knew it will give him an advantage or if it actually did). To me, its the mindset behind the cheating, not that I actually think it mattered.

Thus, my position goes beyond whether or not it helped him win. Its just part of his shitty demeanor.

[mr.turbo]

You give too much credit to IFBB judges.

And, again, its just different perspectives.

I will say it AGAIN: I don't think standing closer helped him win, nor do I think it swayed the judges decision. I agree with you on that.

However, (a) its still cheating, no matter how you look at it, and (b) it gives you a glimpse into Phil's personality, i.e., that he will try and bend the rules to his advantage (whether or not he knew it will give him an advantage or if it actually did). To me, its the mindset behind the cheating, not that I actually think it mattered.

Thus, my position goes beyond whether or not it helped him win. Its just part of his shitty demeanor.

if you accept for the sake of argument that the contest is fixed;  what do you think is going on in phils head?

He's not concerned about the judges, or the officials because he knows he's going win

His only concern is with looking good enough in the comparison pics to minimize fallout when they end up in the magazines

that's why he's so brazen about moving way forward

 

[SF1900]

if you accept for the sake of argument that the contest is fixed;  what do you think is going on in phils head?

He's not concerned about the judges, or the officials because he knows he's going win

His only concern is with looking good enough in the comparison pics to minimize fallout when they end up in the magazines

that's why he's so brazen about moving way forward

 

Well, if he knows its fixed, then his actions dont matter. Wouldnt be surprised if the ifbb contests are fixed.

[Grape Ape]

However, (a) its still cheating, no matter how you look at it, and (b) it gives you a glimpse into Phil's personality, i.e., that he will try and bend the rules to his advantage (whether or not he knew it will give him an advantage or if it actually did). To me, its the mindset behind the cheating, not that I actually think it mattered.

Thus, my position goes beyond whether or not it helped him win. Its just part of his shitty demeanor.

Would you feel the same way if one of the competitors tried a few more IU's of insulin, or found a new drug that nobody knew about?  Would that be any different?

[SF1900]

Would you feel the same way if one of the competitors tried a few more IU's of insulin, or found a new drug that nobody knew about?  Would that be any different?

Its an unrealistic and bad analogy to use. However, yes, it would be unfair if some competitor found a drug that gave him a superhuman edge.

But as I stated, its a bad analogy to use. The difference is that you cant hold all variables constant outside of the day of the competition. That goes for any competition. The judges have no control over what the competitors do outside of the competition day.

But on the day of the contest, you can hold certain variables constant, i.e., making sure everyone is on the line, making sure everyone is hitting the same poses when they are told to and for the "right amount of time," ensuring that all night show routines are relatively the same time, and making sure everyone shows up on time. Thus, judges have more control regarding enforcing equal standards on the day of the competition. What does it show about the judges? That they are letting the rules slide for some. Not good.

So, while I recognize that all variables cant be held constant outside of the day of the competition, the judges need to hold all variables constant on the day of the contest, and not allow competitors to willingly break the rules.

[Grape Ape]

So, while I recognize that all variables cant be held constant outside of the day of the competition, the judges need to hold all variables constant on the day of the contest, and not allow competitors to willingly break the rules.

Why give more weight to contest day than prior?

The truth is, the whole thing is a farce.  It's all based on illegal drug use.  There's no morals from the outset.

[SF1900]

Why give more weight to contest day than prior?

The truth is, the whole thing is a farce.  It's all based on illegal drug use.  There's no morals from the outset.

I didn't say that more weight should be given to contest day. You are putting words into my mouth.

I said realistically, you can't hold all variables constant prior to contest day. While it would be great to do that, its impossible. I never said it was less important, its just almost impossible to do, and I recognized that shortcoming in my above post.

Of course there is no morals from the outset. They are all doing illegal things. However, you would think the judges would not let Phil get away with actions like that.

[mr.turbo]

Well, if he knows its fixed, then his actions dont matter. Wouldnt be surprised if the ifbb contests are fixed.

his actions don't matter from a strictly ethical point of view

what matters is that his actions indicate that the judging at the olympia is corrupt

you don't need to argue about torn body parts, distended abdomens, drugs and so on because it's not a contest.

If you're gonna win you don't even have to stand next to the rest of the guys.  We have a record of it.

[SF1900]

his actions don't matter from a strictly ethical point of view

what matters is that his actions indicate that the judging at the olympia is corrupt

you don't need to argue about torn body parts, distended abdomens, drugs and so on because it's not a contest.

If you're gonna win you don't even have to stand next to the rest of the guys.  We have a record of it.

Well, yes, obviously if there is corruption at the top of the IFBB, then Phil's infractions, from an ethical POV, are minute when compared to fixed contests and corruption at the top. His actions are still wrong, in my opinion, but what would need to be addressed are the higher powers of corruption.