Author Topic: Televangelists (Read 17608 times)

Al Doggity · « **on:** August 17, 2015, 02:32:49 PM »

The people in this report- how do you think they rationalize what they do? Do you think there is a possibility that they are actual believers who think they are doing the work of God? Or do you think that they are atheists and scam artists and it ends there? Do you think they might have a more complicated view of religion? Some of them are literally putting people's lives in jeopardy. If you are in any way religious, it seems like stealing in the name of the lord- on such a massive scale, no less- would be hard to cope with mentally. I have been mostly agnostic since my teens, and I was still well into my 20s before I could say "oh my god" without feeling like I was going to hell.

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Royalty · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2015, 02:38:24 PM »

Quote from: Al Doggity on August 17, 2015, 02:32:49 PM

The people in this report- how do you think they rationalize what they do? Do you think there is a possibility that they are actual believers who think they are doing the work of God? Or do you think that they are atheists and scam artists and it ends there? Do you think they might have a more complicated view of religion? Some of them are literally putting people's lives in jeopardy. If you are in any way religious, it seems like stealing in the name of the lord- on such a massive scale, no less- would be hard to cope with mentally. I have been mostly agnostic since my teens, and I was still well into my 20s before I could say "oh my god" without feeling like I was going to hell.

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I think many of them started off with good intentions. But somewhere along the lines, Greed took a foothold on them. Eventually, Greed took over.

robcguns · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2015, 02:59:21 PM »

They are brilliant

SF1900 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2015, 03:03:52 PM »

Quote from: Al Doggity on August 17, 2015, 02:32:49 PM

The people in this report- how do you think they rationalize what they do? Do you think there is a possibility that they are actual believers who think they are doing the work of God? Or do you think that they are atheists and scam artists and it ends there? Do you think they might have a more complicated view of religion? Some of them are literally putting people's lives in jeopardy. If you are in any way religious, it seems like stealing in the name of the lord- on such a massive scale, no less- would be hard to cope with mentally. I have been mostly agnostic since my teens, and I was still well into my 20s before I could say "oh my god" without feeling like I was going to hell.

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Why does one need to be an atheist to scam people? There are probably millions of believers who hurt people, i.e., scam people out of money and rape little boys.

Don't need to be an atheist do those things. Can easily be religious. Ive never scammed or hurt anyone, despite my atheism.

Al Doggity · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2015, 03:32:54 PM »

Quote from: SF1900 on August 17, 2015, 03:03:52 PM

Why does one need to be an atheist to scam people? There are probably millions of believers who hurt people, i.e., scam people out of money and rape little boys.

Don't need to be an atheist do those things. Can easily be religious. Ive never scammed or hurt anyone, despite my atheism.

You don't have to be an atheist and I didn't say or imply that. If you had read the whole paragraph, you would see that I identified myself as agnostic and I am not a bad person. I was not equating practicing a religious faith with being good or ethical, but the point of the statement was that people who do genuinely believe in God do have a reverence for the concept that is usually distinct from whether or not they live ethical lives.

Last year, it came out that this hockey player got robbed blind by his parents who had control over his finances. Now, just because you don't steal your kid's life savings doesn't mean you're a good parent. However, if you DO steal your kid's life savings, it puts you in a certain monstrous territory because even a hardened criminal should consider their own kid off-limits. Likewise, anyone is capable of theft or child abuse, regardless of their belief system. But if the theft is literally exploiting that belief system and others who believe in it, then it makes me curious about how a religious person rationalizes it.

SF1900 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2015, 03:34:51 PM »

Quote from: Al Doggity on August 17, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

You don't have to be an atheist and I didn't say or imply that. If you had read the whole paragraph, you would see that I identified myself as agnostic and I am not a bad person. I was not equating practicing a religious faith with being good or ethical, but the point of the statement was that people who do genuinely believe in God do have a reverence for the concept that is usually distinct from whether or not they live ethical lives.

Last year, it came out that this hockey player got robbed blind by his parents who had control over his finances. Now, just because you don't steal your kid's life savings doesn't mean you're a good parent. However, if you DO steal your kid's life savings, it puts you in a certain monstrous territory because even a hardened criminal should consider their own kid off-limits. Likewise, anyone is capable of theft or child abuse, regardless of their belief system. But if the theft is literally exploiting that belief system and others who believe in it, then it makes me curious about how a religious person rationalizes it.

Sure, back peddle now.

The Ugly · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2015, 03:46:30 PM »

Hard to sympathize with the poor folks getting suckered in here. Impossible, really. This level of stupidity should be costly.

Al Doggity · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2015, 04:39:20 PM »

Quote from: The Ugly on August 17, 2015, 03:46:30 PM

Hard to sympathize with the poor folks getting suckered in here. Impossible, really. This level of stupidity should be costly.

I don't have much sympathy for them, either. But, my family was pentecostal and i went to pentecostal elementary school and catholic high school and there is an idea of giving a percentage of your income to be blessed in the future hammered into the flock.

tbombz · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2015, 05:04:14 PM »

Quote from: Al Doggity on August 17, 2015, 02:32:49 PM

The people in this report- how do you think they rationalize what they do? Do you think there is a possibility that they are actual believers who think they are doing the work of God? Or do you think that they are atheists and scam artists and it ends there? Do you think they might have a more complicated view of religion? Some of them are literally putting people's lives in jeopardy. If you are in any way religious, it seems like stealing in the name of the lord- on such a massive scale, no less- would be hard to cope with mentally. I have been mostly agnostic since my teens, and I was still well into my 20s before I could say "oh my god" without feeling like I was going to hell.

There are televangelists who use Jesus to serve their own ends.

Those people are sinning.

Then there are televangelists who use T.V. to serve Jesus.

Those people are worshipping God.

....Just because someone is asking for money does not make them corrupt.

The Ugly · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2015, 05:11:03 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on August 17, 2015, 05:04:14 PM

There are televangelists who use Jesus to serve their own ends.

Those people are sinning.

Then there are televangelists who use T.V. to serve Jesus.

Those people are worshipping God.

....Just because someone is asking for money does not make them corrupt.

How do you distinguish real from fake?

Can you give me an example of an honest Jesus server?

TuHolmes · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2015, 05:12:45 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on August 17, 2015, 05:04:14 PM

There are televangelists who use Jesus to serve their own ends.

Those people are sinning.

Then there are televangelists who use T.V. to serve Jesus.

Those people are worshipping God.

....Just because someone is asking for money does not make them corrupt.

What televangelists don't ask for donations or sell you something to make themselves money?

Seems to me that if you request money from the people watching, then you are in some way, not serving Jesus, but yourself.

The Ugly · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2015, 05:25:48 PM »

Quote from: Al Doggity on August 17, 2015, 04:39:20 PM

I don't have much sympathy for them, either. But, my family was pentecostal and i went to pentecostal elementary school and catholic high school and there is an idea of giving a percentage of your income to be blessed in the future hammered into the flock.

Funny, I've been critical of these types since I was kid, back when I was still a nominal Christian.

Even then I recall my faithful family/friends unwilling to call them out, even the most obvious (Swaggart, Bakker, Gene Scott, etc.). They'd be so quick to defend - a knee-jerk thing - like they were afraid to incur God's wrath had they been wrong.

My experience with Christians is that they often live in fear; and many bask in ignorance, as NONE of them are even aware OT God could be vicious and unforgiving. Absolute WORST thing they could do is read the bible.

Nails · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2015, 05:50:06 PM »

The_Punisher · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2015, 06:06:17 PM »

and the many monkeys in America and abroad who are supporting them.....I don't blame these "Preachers"

The Ugly · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2015, 06:29:15 PM »

Quote from: The Scott on August 17, 2015, 06:20:49 PM

God needs nothing, least of all money.

Don't "give 'till it hurts", that's BS. If you give, give in silence and within your means, expecting nothing in return from God or anyone. Give not until it hurts but instead give to relieve the hurt of others.

Televangelists and others of their kind are scum.

My words are wasted, I know. People will judge the words of the Christ by those that twist them to serve not God, but themselves. I have no fear of God nor do I bask in ignorance. I am here to speak what I hold true and if any would belittle me for it, there is nothing I can do about that.

So many ministers have a degree in theology. A co-worker once said to me, "Who are you but an illiterate man with no formal training in theology to question such learned men when it comes to the Bible?"

I replied that the Pharisees said much the same about Jesus of Nazareth..."Who is this man? The son of a carpenter? And we, we are trained men of the faith!"

I suppose that I could be as some here are and paint with a broad brush but like them, I may find that I have painted myself into a corner and that the brush I have been using is my own self.

Again, I waste my words here. I mean none of you harm and neither does my faith in Jesus of Nazareth cause you harm. One of the finest men I have ever known was an Atheist. John often spoke of how if ever he were to believe in anything it would be in the goodness of the message of the Nazarene.

I choose to believe but in doing so I will not belittle those that choose not to. Atheists are good people, some being far more Christian in their public (and doubtless private) lives than those that claim the faith. But you men already know this.

I cannot say to any here, "be well". For right now I really wouldn't mean it. Why should I lie to you? I won't.

Is it a broad brush when you're simply addressing your personal circle, and each and every one fits your specific description?

Not sure who else "some here" could be is all.

Irongrip400 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 17, 2015, 06:36:21 PM »

One thing I'll say about Mormons, their folks volunteer or are put on some lowly stipend. The actual finances are managed by a Jewish firm I believe.

Like an earlier poster said, most probably start out good and then get greedy. Not many people do bad things and think they are assholes for doing them. Most justify it somehow.

The Ugly · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2015, 06:39:28 PM »

Quote from: Irongrip400 on August 17, 2015, 06:36:21 PM

One thing I'll say about Mormons, their folks volunteer or are put on some lowly stipend. The actual finances are managed by a Jewish firm I believe.

Like an earlier poster said, most probably start out good and then get greedy. Not many people do bad things and think they are assholes for doing them. Most justify it somehow.

Most Mormons I've encountered are incredibly friendly, helpful, and moral. Their theology is batshit crazy is all, so it's just a matter of, what, intelligence? Culture?

Probably both, I'd imagine.

NarcissisticDeity · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2015, 06:42:02 PM »

Creflo Dollar best name for a preacher lol his ~~sap suckers~~ parishners bought him a $65 Million dollar plane so he can do the lord's work at close to the speed of sound. !!

Pastor Creflo Dollar might get his $65 million private jet after all

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/06/03/pastor-creflo-dollar-might-get-his-65-million-private-jet-after-all/

Irongrip400 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2015, 06:53:08 PM »

Quote from: The Ugly on August 17, 2015, 06:39:28 PM

Most Mormons I've encountered are incredibly friendly, helpful, and moral. Their theology is batshit crazy is all, so it's just a matter of, what, intelligence? Culture?

Probably both, I'd imagine.

No shit. If it wasn't for their theology, no boozing and fornicating, I might become one myself.

There will come a point when you'll have to join one of these movements, or be killed by another. I may just convert to Judaism. Those fuckers always get what they want.

The Ugly · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2015, 07:02:19 PM »

Quote from: The Scott on August 17, 2015, 06:42:56 PM

Are you not in my personal circle? Am I not in yours? Do we not know each other by our words to here? I would say that to a great degree, yes. Descriptions can be like a blanket.

I will not smother you with something that I know does not suit you. As is more than evidenced I can be as much an ass as any here and so I will give ground to you and cease my prattle. I don't care what shoes any here choose to wear or not wear. Belief in Jesus is not a prerequisite for friendship.

Ok, fair enough. Specifically addressing family and friends, though, not folks here. You, Coach, MoS, wes, maybe chaos (aj, too, I'd hope), perhaps others - all Christians I very much respect, but not sure what that means. Do we need permission, or clearance, for impulsive replies?

I'm criticizing them, not you, and I'd like to be able to speak my mind, as this shit REALLY bugs me - as much as Obama bugs Coach. No personal insult intended, just as I don't take it personally when y'all step on my cybertoes.

So, apologies where necessary, but Jeeeeeeeze, we are talking about evangelists here. I'd hope WE ALL could see through this bullshit.

Be well, my friend.

mr.turbo · « **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2015, 07:04:04 PM »

I enjoy Al Doggity's threads, seems like a principled, thoughtful fellow

in general, people adopt belief systems that justify their behaviour, it's a like mental strategy that allows a person to function

you may be astonished if you look carefully into the larger system that these people operate in, it gets a lot worse!

The Ugly · « **Reply #21 on:** August 17, 2015, 07:10:33 PM »

Quote from: Irongrip400 on August 17, 2015, 06:53:08 PM

No shit. If it wasn't for their theology, no boozing and fornicating, I might become one myself.

There will come a point when you'll have to join one of these movements, or be killed by another. I may just convert to Judaism. Those fuckers always get what they want.

Very much respect the Jewish faith/people as well, but here's the thing: They don't even have the 'new and improved' NT God. Their Guy is an (please ignore, my faithful brethren) ASSHOLE! They got Deuteronomy God with the indiscriminate smiting.

But the Jews I've met know their scripture better than anyone. I've learned much from them. Just got an issue with The Word is all.

tbombz · « **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2015, 11:47:30 PM »

Quote from: The Ugly on August 17, 2015, 05:11:03 PM

How do you distinguish real from fake?

Jesus tells us that we are able to discern real disciples from fake disciples based on their behaviors....

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:15-20

So... how does the person behave? What type of message are they preaching? Is the person preaching about sin, hell, repentance, and the crucifixion of Jesus, or is the person preaching about positive thinking, wealthiness, healthiness, and success? Is the person walking like Jesus or just talking like Jesus?

Quote from: The Ugly on August 17, 2015, 05:11:03 PM

Can you give me an example of an honest Jesus server?

I assume that you are limiting this question to televangelists.

No one is perfect... not even sincere Christians doing their best to serve God.

But there have been some honest Jesus servers/televangelists.

Jerry Fallwell. Billy Graham. Charles Stanley. To name a few.

Most people automatically discredit Jimmy Swaggart because of the time he was involved with a prostitute. But as far as using donations to serve Christ, I know that Jimmy Swaggart has always been faithful to the Lord. And he has always preached a good, biblical message too.

Quote from: The Ugly on August 17, 2015, 07:10:33 PM

Very much respect the Jewish faith/people as well, but here's the thing: They don't even have the 'new and improved' NT God. Their Guy is an (please ignore, my faithful brethren) ASSHOLE! They got Deuteronomy God with the indiscriminate smiting.

The God of the Old Testament is the same God as the New Testament: Jesus!!!!

Here are some beautiful laws from the Old Testament, given by God:

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might." (Deuteronomy 6:5)

"When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God." (Leviticus 19:9-10

"You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD." (Leviticus 19:18)

"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." (Leviticus 19:34)

"And if you will indeed obey my commandments that I command you today, to love the Lord your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, he will give the rain for your land in its season, the early rain and the later rain, that you may gather in your grain and your wine and your oil. And he will give grass in your fields for your livestock, and you shall eat and be full." (Deuteronomy 11:13-15)

wes · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2015, 12:02:13 AM »

I wouldn`t give any of them the sweat off my balls............bunch of crooks and con artists.

Simple Simon · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2015, 12:04:12 AM »

Quote

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:15-20

My fruit trees vary from year to year, sometimes a good crop sometimes bad.

So Jesus was talking out his ass.

Author Topic: Televangelists (Read 17608 times)

Simple Simon