Televangelists

[tbombz]

... and their unborn or young children he drowned in the Flood. Aside from the Original, what sin could they possibly commit?

The most serious and grave of all sins is not loving God.

But, on top of that, all those people in the Old Testament that God killed were people who were worshipping demons, and sacrificing their children (burning their children alive) to Satan. And they knew what they were doing too.

So, yeah, God was justified in doing what he did.

Odd...

'and again I say to you, it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to go, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.' - Matthew 19:24

You forgot the other part of that verse...     "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"  

so in your circle there is no infant baptism among evangelicals? are children pressured in to being saved once they come of a certain age?

  most Christians (including Roman Catholics) believe that all children go to heaven. There is a doctrine called "the age of accountability", which states that until a person reaches a certain level of knowledge concerning their sin, they are not responsible for it.

[SF1900]

They know what he wants when it suits them.

It's hypocritical to say it's what he wants, then when it doesn't go in a way that makes any sense, it's "No one understands gods plan".

Can't have it both ways.

x2

When something good happens, it was Gods plan.

When something bad happens, we don't understand Gods divine plan.

 

[El Diablo Blanco]

The most serious and grave of all sins is not loving God.

But, on top of that, all those people in the Old Testament that God killed were people who were worshipping demons, and sacrificing their children (burning their children alive) to Satan. And they knew what they were doing too.

So, yeah, God was justified in doing what he did.
 You forgot the other part of that verse...     "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"   

   most Christians (including Roman Catholics) believe that all children go to heaven. There is a doctrine called "the age of accountability", which states that until a person reaches a certain level of knowledge concerning their sin, they are not responsible for it.

People think that atheists are arrogant but how about God proclaiming not loving him is the biggest sin.  lol

You better fucking love me or I'll kill ever last one of you.

[TuHolmes]

So, yeah, God was justified in doing what he did.
 You forgot the other part of that verse...     "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"  

So you're saying God can get into heaven if he's rich, but man can't.

Thought God was already in heaven?

[The Ugly]

The most serious and grave of all sins is not loving God.

But, on top of that, all those people in the Old Testament that God killed were people who were worshipping demons, and sacrificing their children (burning their children alive) to Satan. And they knew what they were doing too.

So, yeah, God was justified in doing what he did.

So unborn babies, besides not loving God, worshipped demons and sacrificed their children?

Interesting.

[El Diablo Blanco]

So you're saying God can get into heaven if he's rich, but man can't.

Thought God was already in heaven?

Yes but there's a Jewish landlord and even he would evict God if he doesn't make rent.

[Man of Steel]

I see there have been more comments and questions, but I'll have to respond more later when I free up again.

I'm not promising answers to everything, but I'll do my best. 

[SF1900]

People think that atheists are arrogant but how about God proclaiming not loving him is the biggest sin.  lol

You better fucking love me or I'll kill ever last one of you.

There are probably more contradictions and uncertainties in religion than there are certainties.

That is why you just have to take it all on "faith." 

[El Diablo Blanco]

There are probably more contradictions and uncertainties in religion than there are certainties.

That is why you just have to take it all on "faith." 

Yep, religion people are so certain about everything that they leave their biggest hopes on a big fat maybe otherwise known as faith.

[NarcissisticDeity]

All things are possible through God

Just read the King's Torah 

The fifth chapter, entitled "Murder of non-Jews in a time of war" has been widely quoted in the Israeli media. The summary states that "you can kill those who are not supporting or encouraging murder in order to save the lives of Jews".
At one point it suggests that babies can justifiably be killed if it is clear they will grow up to pose a threat.

You know those Palestinian babies will grow up to a " threat " mind as well deal with them now. Only in the retarded warped mind of " believers " is this shit palatable. " God's chosen people " 

[Man of Steel]

so in your circle there is no infant baptism among evangelicals? are children pressured in to being saved once they come of a certain age?

The Methodist church still participates in infant baptism and I've seen the baptismal/sprinkling thingies (don't know the right word) at a presbyterian church also.  Concept just originated in RC church.

Are children pressured?  Not that I've ever seen.  I'm not suggesting it doesn't happen though....I just didn't experience it.  I've seen the "Jesus Camp" indoctrination videos, but that situation is not normal LOL. 

I grew up in a church with my sisters, cousins and some friends and none of us where pressured (that I remember or was aware of).  We were taught about the bible and church while at church and some of us were raised by Christian parents, but being pressured by the older generations I never experienced in my circle (directly or indirectly). 

We were allowed to make our own choices.  I basically left the church as a young adult....I had no element of God in my life.  One of my sisters got heavy into drugs and alcohol as a teen and young adult....she was further away than me.  I have other sisters that chose to remain "in the flock" their entire lives. 

[mr.turbo]

satan created religion

get your head out of that book fellas

 

[dr.chimps]

The most serious and grave of all sins is not loving God.

But, on top of that, all those people in the Old Testament that God killed were people who were worshipping demons, and sacrificing their children (burning their children alive) to Satan. And they knew what they were doing too.

So, yeah, God was justified in doing what he did.
 You forgot the other part of that verse...     "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"  

   most Christians (including Roman Catholics) believe that all children go to heaven. There is a doctrine called "the age of accountability", which states that until a person reaches a certain level of knowledge concerning their sin, they are not responsible for it.

No, you farking waste of space, the first commandment is 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' Really!? A God needs a copyright codicil off the get-go!? This is why you, and all your religious blowhard exponents, fail. Man, you are such a disappointment. But, trust me, you know this.   

[Man of Steel]

MOS and other theists will just say, "Its part of his divine plan."   We are just mere mortals and cannot understand why God would let a 4 year old suffer day in and day out with endless surgeries and chemotherapies. You know, its just part of his plan.

Or go to any cancer childrens ward.

Thank you kindly for answering on my behalf, but unfortunately that's not how I would answer.   I rarely (if ever) go to the "God works in mysterious ways" bit.

Why are people allowed to suffer?  So that we can more clearly recognize the division between us and God and our need for him in our lives.  It's the effect of our sinful choices that have brought about our pain.  This world and it inhabitants exist in a perpetual state of decay.  We're subjected to evil, disease, famine, disasters, etc.....all the results of our sin.   God gave us dominion over his creation and we're to govern it and it's inhabitants appropriately.  He's also allowed us to engage in activities and choices that he knew would harm is good creation and defy his will and law.  The gulf of sin dividing creation from creator is recognized by those who seek to eliminate their individual sin and encourage others to do the same.

Those that hate God often briefly step into the Christian worldview and immediately dismiss the notion of sin and just blame God.  It's quick, it's convenient....no fuss, no muss.  Unfortunately it's wrong.

God desires for us to be saved, repent of our sins and seek his righteousness in our lives.  To be filled with his spirit and guided by it for the remainder of our days seeking his will as opposed to our own.  Salvation is the answer to the problem of evil and the problem is resolved one soul at a time.   Having the ability to engage in every form of good and wicked choice makes those humble choices to surrender to God's will that much more genuine and sincere.

On a personal note, we do see the impacts of sin and disease and tragedy in our small circle of influence.  My family is currently helping sponsor another family because of the impacts of cancer the father of this sweet family is dealing with (and will now claim his life).  We weren't asked, they didn't seek us out....it was impressed upon my wife's heart and I humbly recognized and supported the divine call.  This man is slowly dying of pancreatic cancer and we've been doing our best to help assist them financially for most of this year and we try to encourage them emotionally.  Last weekend we sponsored a fundraiser for the family to bring about awareness and increase financial support.  I've tried to setup our family budget so that we can continue monetary support after his now inevitable passing until his wife can get back to work and reestablish support on her own (they've both been out of work all year because of this disease).  My sweet wife and daughter pray for them every night.  I do the same privately.  My wife has prayed over the family repeatedly.  This is no one's business and I haven't shared it before, but felt now was appropriate.

[Man of Steel]

You're saying that the scripture is a metaphor. I would say it should be a statement.

People see what they want to see I suppose.

The greater context defines the selected passage and makes the definitive statement.   Without the context it's up to wild interpretation.

[Man of Steel]

Christians have it all figured out.  if shit goes wrong, it's in God's plan or God is testing us, if shit works out well it's because God loves them.

I find the exact opposite in my own life.  In times of turmoil I experience God's glory at it's greatest.

[dr.chimps]

Thank you kindly for answering on my behalf, but unfortunately that's not how I would answer.   I rarely (if ever) go to the "God works in mysterious ways" bit.

Why are people allowed to suffer?  So that we can more clearly recognize the division between us and God and our need for him in our lives.  It's the effect of our sinful choices that have brought about our pain.  This world and it inhabitants exist in a perpetual state of decay.  We're subjected to evil, disease, famine, disasters, etc.....all the results of our sin.   God gave us dominion over his creation and we're to govern it and it's inhabitants appropriately.  He's also allowed us to engage in activities and choices that he knew would harm is good creation and defy his will and law.  The gulf of sin dividing creation from creator is recognized by those who seek to eliminate their individual sin and encourage others to do the same.

Those that hate God often briefly step into the Christian worldview and immediately dismiss the notion of sin and just blame God.  It's quick, it's convenient....no fuss, no muss.  Unfortunately it's wrong.

God desires for us to be saved, repent of our sins and seek his righteousness in our lives.  To be filled with his spirit and guided by it for the remainder of our days seeking his will as opposed to our own.  Salvation is the answer to the problem of evil and the problem is resolved one soul at a time.   Having the ability to engage in every form of good and wicked choice makes those humble choices to surrender to God's will that much more genuine and sincere.

On a personal note, we do see the impacts of sin and disease and tragedy in our small circle of influence.  My family is currently helping sponsor another family because of the impacts of cancer the father of this sweet family is dealing with (and will now claim his life).  We weren't asked, they didn't seek us out....it was impressed upon my wife's heart and I humbly recognized and supported the divine call.  This man is slowly dying of pancreatic cancer and we've been doing our best to help assist them financially for most of this year and we try to encourage them emotionally.  Last weekend we sponsored a fundraiser for the family to bring about awareness and increase financial support.  I've tried to setup our family budget so that we can continue monetary support after his now inevitable passing until his wife can get back to work and reestablish support on her own (they've both been out of work all year because of this disease).  My sweet wife and daughter pray for them every night.  I do the same privately.  My wife has prayed over the family repeatedly.  This is no one's business and I haven't shared it before, but felt now was appropriate.

No. We 'suffer' because it is (your) God's pleasure to do so. No other reason. And it used to be 'dominion,' but is now 'stewardship.' Know your dogma, Christian.  

/like nailing jello to the wall

[Man of Steel]

My favorite is how Christians are the expert on God.  They proclaim shit like "God would have wanted that"  Really?  How the fuck would you know what God would have wanted or not wanted?

Scripture is a great thing.  It's God's inspired word that details his will.   Plus for those believers who have God's Holy Spirit living in them they can discern his word via that divine guidance.  Certainly his word can be understood without it, but it never makes more sense then with it.

[Man of Steel]

No. We 'suffer' because it is (your) God's pleasure to do so. No other reason. And it used to be 'dominion,' but is now 'stewardship.' Know your dogma, Christian. 

/like nailing jello to the wall

AHAHAHAHAH!!! "Know your dogma, Christian."   Sure thing dr. chimps.

[Man of Steel]

There are probably more contradictions and uncertainties in religion than there are certainties.

That is why you just have to take it all on "faith."  

Yep, religion people are so certain about everything that they leave their biggest hopes on a big fat maybe otherwise known as faith.

The ignorant bliss of arguing that "faith is forever blind".  It continues to interest me how those without faith understand faith so completely.  How is that?  I never get an answer despite repeatedly asking.

See, I can speak from personal experience as I've stood on both sides of the fence (religious and virtually non-religious) and being a man of faith has made me a far more joyful person.

I think most regular church attendees don't spend much more time exploring their faith outside Sunday church attendance, but some do (I would classify myself as one that extends his faith beyond just church fellowship) and they draw enormous happiness from engaging that faith both in fellowship with believers and in learning more about the God they represent.  I draw tremendous joy from giving to others, but doing so privately as my only audience is the God I serve.  I enjoy studying theology and discussing it with others...even engaging in mild debate/discussion.  These experiences mature my faith, increase my knowledge and give me more opportunities to experience the wonderful, tangible presence of the Holy Spirit.

It's amazing when you watch the Lord work within your life.  When you remain faithful and patient allowing his good will to unfold before you.  Your faith solidifies over time until it becomes something altogether different.  No more the generic notion of the "blind leap of faith", but now a rock solid, wide eyed revelation and demonstration of God's presence in your life.  Brings me tremendous joy to see these events unfold at times.

Faith matures and grows rock solid....you have full assurance in the heart about the reality of God when you come to him on his terms as defined in scripture.

Want to know God, then listen to the personal testimonies of believers (natural evidence) that have experienced him and decide whether or not you would like to know him also.  Then you must engage in faith as outlined in scripture (yes, you must first believe to know God).  Do so with an earnest, humble desire to submit to his will in faith and he will reveal himself to you (extraordinary evidence).  

[dr.chimps]

AHAHAHAHAH!!! "Know your dogma, Christian."   Sure thing dr. chimps.

Great reply. When logic fails, respond in scripture. When that fails, say 'AHAHAHAHAH!!!' What a charlatan you are.

[Man of Steel]

Great reply. When logic fails, respond in scripture. When that fails, say 'AHAHAHAHAH!!!' What a charlatan you are.

You didn't reply with a logical premise that can be argued, you replied with an absolute opinion about God.  You already know my position and that of scripture.  

No. We 'suffer' because it is (your) God's pleasure to do so. No other reason. And it used to be 'dominion,' but is now 'stewardship.' Know your dogma, Christian.  

/like nailing jello to the wall

You want my answer, I'll give it despite your snarky nonsense.

A steward is one given authority by a greater power to manage a situation.  A king would often have governors or stewards over territories within his kingdom.

Mankind is given dominion over the earth:

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

When you're given dominion you act as governor over that with which you've been given authority, but from the perspective of the giver you are acting as a steward on his behalf.

God is the creator and king and empowers mankind as stewards in that they are given dominion over creation to govern it and all its resources.

I answer questions and I'm labeled an arrogant know-it-all.  I dismiss the snarky stuff and I'm labeled incapable of answering.   LOL!!  It's lose-lose for me, but I accept that.  

Hopefully it draws someone else to the Lord....all that matters.  It's for his glory, not mine.

[dr.chimps]

You didn't reply with a logical premise that can be argued, you replied with an absolute opinion about God.  You already know my position and that of scripture.  

You want my answer, I'll give it despite your snarky nonsense.

A steward is one given authority by a greater power to manage a situation.  A king would often have governors or stewards over territories within his kingdom.

Mankind is given dominion over the earth:

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

When you're given dominion you act as governor over that with which you've been given authority, but from the perspective of the giver you are acting as a steward on his behalf.

God is the creator and king and empowers mankind as stewards in that they are given dominion over creation to govern it and all its resources.

  

Look. We've both been here for a while. You're a good guy. I get that. We all know that. But your religious absolutism is trying, strident and enervating. I stepped up the plate. We all have enough on our plate without someone trying to tell us what to do. And, I get it. Part of your creed is to proselytize, but enough! Enough. Go find the old MOS who was whimsical and fun. Pretty sure your God would like that guy.   

[dr.chimps]

Sorry, MOS. The above post reads patronizing. Not my intention. Read as is. Apologies.

[Man of Steel]

Look. We've both been here for a while. You're a good guy. I get that. We all know that. But your religious absolutism is trying, strident and enervating. I stepped up the plate. We all have enough on our plate without someone trying to tell us what to do. And, I get it. Part of your creed is to proselytize, but enough! Enough. Go find the old MOS who was whimsical and fun. Pretty sure your God would like that guy.  

Yeah, I was surprised at your tone today, but I laughed and blew it off.  I have nothing against you man.  I do respect you and all is cool.

But still, we need to make one thing clear.  I'm not telling anyone how to do anything.  Everyone can live their lives however they want.

Further, I didn't start this thread.  I responded to other existing comments and then the theist pile on started and I began answering questions people asked of me.

Many folks don't like it when their religious questions are answered....sorry.  

Like I noted, I actually blew off your comment that ended with "Know your dogma, Christian."  I was suprised, but I aughed at it and didn't bother.  You pushed and criticized my non response so I gave you one and then you're upset because I responded......it's like nailing jello to a wall.

I'm a changed man today.  I've tried to continue interacting with others, but to be honest I'm virtually ignored on GB today unless I'm discussing religion.  Still, I don't discuss religion for attention.....I don't post much outside of that because it's fairly pointless.

If I post something that's funny or "off color" I continually get the "not very Christian of you"....."typical Christian hypocrite"......"phony Christian a**hole" stuff.....every single time.  

And you bet I spread the gospel of Christ....that's the point....that's what believers are commissioned to do.  We're also called to defend our faith.  

I've repeatedly encourage others to keep religious threads to the religion board, but thread creators desire traction and that's easy on the G&O.  So I discuss on the G&O where everyone wants to talk and theist "pile ons" can occur.

I genuinely try to be respectful, but discussing God flat pisses some people off.....can't be helped.   I just try to be civil and understanding.