Author Topic: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.  (Read 35640 times)

The Ugly

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #175 on: September 05, 2015, 11:21:09 AM »
Imagine the uproar if she were denying gun licenses because killing other people with guns were against her religious views.  They would be gathering wood to burn her at the stake already. 

It's wrong when either side does it, but partisan hypocrites never acknowledge their own bullshit. Politics as usual, always.

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #176 on: September 05, 2015, 12:52:57 PM »
Had to LOL at this one.

chadstallion

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #177 on: September 05, 2015, 04:02:55 PM »
ouch
or dress her
w

George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #178 on: September 05, 2015, 04:48:49 PM »
Yes, good for her. And good for the future whomever, who denies your second amendment and disarms you. Or the next, who strips you of your freedom to worship.

God bless them, too, yes?



Don't understand the point of your comment. The supreme court granted Faggs the authority to get married for about 30 seconds ago-- In a 5-4 decision which contradicts referendums in 20+ states across this country. It is not remotely debatable that the OVERWHELMING majority of people in the United States do not approve of gay marriage.  If this woman wants to stand by her principles and religious beliefs regardless of the consequences, then she should be applauded as a HERO.


In short, your response is moronic.

Hope this helps.



Irongrip400

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #179 on: September 05, 2015, 05:51:00 PM »
Imagine the uproar if she were denying gun licenses because killing other people with guns were against her religious views.  They would be gathering wood to burn her at the stake already.  

She'd probably smell like bacon cooking, the fat whore.

Straw Man

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #180 on: September 05, 2015, 07:00:10 PM »
Don't understand the point of your comment. The supreme court granted Faggs the authority to get married for about 30 seconds ago-- In a 5-4 decision which contradicts referendums in 20+ states across this country. It is not remotely debatable that the OVERWHELMING majority of people in the United States do not approve of gay marriage.  If this woman wants to stand by her principles and religious beliefs regardless of the consequences, then she should be applauded as a HERO.


In short, your response is moronic.

Hope this helps.




Tough shit. Deal with it.

Don't give a rats ass if this help you or not.

The Ugly

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #181 on: September 05, 2015, 07:26:04 PM »
Don't understand the point of your comment. The supreme court granted Faggs the authority to get married for about 30 seconds ago-- In a 5-4 decision which contradicts referendums in 20+ states across this country. It is not remotely debatable that the OVERWHELMING majority of people in the United States do not approve of gay marriage.  If this woman wants to stand by her principles and religious beliefs regardless of the consequences, then she should be applauded as a HERO.


In short, your response is moronic.

Hope this helps.




No, no help. But thanks.

No point in debating, let's just summarize: When SC decides it's unconstitutional to discriminate, it doesn't really matter what % of the population supports a ban. It's federal law now, which supersedes anything Kentucky decides, as I'm sure you're aware.

But this goofball isn't challenging the legality, she's defying it on moral grounds: "To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God's definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience."

You think this is heroic, fine. Common sense suggests that, if her values interfere with her ability to fulfill the duties of a clerk, she should probably step down. She's no political martyr; she's just (illegally) imposing her personal bullshit on others, violating civil rights in the process.

And if her cause were something less right-leaning, I'm sure conservatives would be crying foul. Like they do when an illegal 'sanctuary city' is established.

timfogarty

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #182 on: September 05, 2015, 09:02:48 PM »
In a 5-4 decision which contradicts referendums in 20+ states across this country. It is not remotely debatable that the OVERWHELMING majority of people in the United States do not approve of gay marriage.

In 1967 the Supreme Court overturned all anti-miscegenation laws in the US, although the vast majority of Americans supported such laws.


Straw Man

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #183 on: September 05, 2015, 09:15:53 PM »
In 1967 the Supreme Court overturned all anti-miscegenation laws in the US, although the vast majority of Americans supported such laws.



and of course the fact is that the majority of Americans actually do support gay marriage

so when Georgie claims "It is not remotely debatable that the OVERWHELMING majority of people in the United States do not approve of gay marriage." one has to wonder if he's suffered a severe head injury recently, is just profoundly ignorant or is just a fucking liar

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/07/29/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/


LurkerNoMore

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #184 on: September 05, 2015, 09:59:36 PM »
Don't understand the point of your comment. The supreme court granted Faggs the authority to get married for about 30 seconds ago-- In a 5-4 decision which contradicts referendums in 20+ states across this country. It is not remotely debatable that the OVERWHELMING majority of people in the United States do not approve of gay marriage.  If this woman wants to stand by her principles and religious beliefs regardless of the consequences, then she should be applauded as a HERO.


In short, your response is moronic.

Hope this helps.




In that case, why do we not applaud suicide bombers?

avxo

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #185 on: September 05, 2015, 11:52:54 PM »
The supreme court granted Faggs the authority to get married for about 30 seconds ago-- In a 5-4 decision which contradicts referendums in 20+ states across this country.

That the decision was 5-4 is irrelevant. That 20+ referendums were held is irrelevant.


It is not remotely debatable that the OVERWHELMING majority of people in the United States do not approve of gay marriage.

Well, this "OVERWHELMING majority" is free to overrule the Supreme Court by demanding that a Constitutional Amendment be adopted that explicitly defines marriage as between a man a woman. This would take the matter completely outside of the jurisdiction of the Supremes.


If this woman wants to stand by her principles and religious beliefs regardless of the consequences, then she should be applauded as a HERO.

I hardly think she's a hero - just another idiot who believes in a God that's, apparently, incapable of acting directly and must instead rely on tools like her. An idiot who believes that her religious beliefs entitle her to not do her job and still collect a paycheck.

whork

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #186 on: September 06, 2015, 07:29:38 AM »
Imagine the uproar if she were denying gun licenses because killing other people with guns were against her religious views.  They would be gathering wood to burn her at the stake already. 

+1

240 is Back

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #187 on: September 06, 2015, 08:26:35 AM »
Huckabee to meet with her.   pushing for an online petition to get her released.

she's another zimmerman, another rancher bundy... the more repubs know, the more they back away from screaming their support for her.   the latest i heard is that she's actually a democrat and refused to let an entire office do their job, which the constitution of the USA said they had to do.  She prevented an entire govt office from allowing people to enjoy their legal rights, and chose jail to make a point and get national press.


George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #188 on: September 06, 2015, 11:57:09 AM »
In that case, why do we not applaud suicide bombers?

The stupidity of this question doesn't merit a response. I'll let you figure out the difference between the clerk in Kentucky who refuses to marry queers and ahmed the suicide bomber who blows up a bus full of school children.

George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #189 on: September 06, 2015, 12:00:05 PM »
Tough shit. Deal with it.

Don't give a rats ass if this help you or not.

Relax homo. I don't give a shit about you being able to marry your boyfriend. In fact, it might help eradicate the herpes epidemic sweeping across the bay area.

George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #190 on: September 06, 2015, 12:13:17 PM »
That the decision was 5-4 is irrelevant. That 20+ referendums were held is irrelevant.


Well, this "OVERWHELMING majority" is free to overrule the Supreme Court by demanding that a Constitutional Amendment be adopted that explicitly defines marriage as between a man a woman. This would take the matter completely outside of the jurisdiction of the Supremes.


I hardly think she's a hero - just another idiot who believes in a God that's, apparently, incapable of acting directly and must instead rely on tools like her. An idiot who believes that her religious beliefs entitle her to not do her job and still collect a paycheck.

Ill briefly refute each point in chronological order.

(1) It matters very much. Marriage is state law issue, period. Gay marriage has been voted down by referendum across the board. That one Supreme Court justice felt compelled to interject his personal beliefs into a cut and dried legal issue doesn't make the decision valid.  Which brings me to my second point. (2) The Supreme Court is not infallible. Who is on the Supreme Court? 9 human beings-- 9 politically appointed judges that serve for life. They have no accountability.  You pretend to be knowledgeable about the law, and yet you know nothing about the history of the Supreme Court. I'm not going to spoon feed you the laundry list of horrible decisions-- but, I suggest you start with Dred Scott. And with that, my final point (3) Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit. I wrote: If this woman wants to stand by her principles and religious beliefs regardless of the consequences, then she should be applauded as a HERO. The key part of my previous posting is underlined. The state is free to fire her. I didn't say that the state could not, or should not fire her given the circumstances. My point is that if she has the courage to take a stand based on religious principle, REGARDLESS OF THE CONSEQUENCES, then I think she should be applauded. You don't have to agree with me-- but please don't put words in my mouth.

George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #191 on: September 06, 2015, 12:18:41 PM »
In 1967 the Supreme Court overturned all anti-miscegenation laws in the US, although the vast majority of Americans supported such laws.



Cool graphic. Thanks for the history lesson.  ::)

George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #192 on: September 06, 2015, 12:21:51 PM »
No, no help. But thanks.

No point in debating, let's just summarize: When SC decides it's unconstitutional to discriminate, it doesn't really matter what % of the population supports a ban. It's federal law now, which supersedes anything Kentucky decides, as I'm sure you're aware.

But this goofball isn't challenging the legality, she's defying it on moral grounds: "To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God's definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience."

You think this is heroic, fine. Common sense suggests that, if her values interfere with her ability to fulfill the duties of a clerk, she should probably step down. She's no political martyr; she's just (illegally) imposing her personal bullshit on others, violating civil rights in the process.

And if her cause were something less right-leaning, I'm sure conservatives would be crying foul. Like they do when an illegal 'sanctuary city' is established.


Again, I never said that she shouldn't be fired. I suppose your lack of reading comprehension correlates with the idiotic comparison you made between this situation and sanctuary cities. Thanks for proving that it was beneath me to address you in the first place.

avxo

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #193 on: September 06, 2015, 12:57:15 PM »
Ill briefly refute each point in chronological order.

(1) It matters very much. Marriage is state law issue, period.

Under Obergefell the Supreme Court has found that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry. Now, you may disagree with that, but it is the decision that the Court reached. Any state law that is contrary to that decision is null and void, just like any state law that limited other constitutionally-guaranteed rights or which went against Federal laws. See, inter alia, the Supremacy clause.


Gay marriage has been voted down by referendum across the board.

Right, and? The United States is a constitutional republic, not a direct democracy.


That one Supreme Court justice felt compelled to interject his personal beliefs into a cut and dried legal issue doesn't make the decision valid.

If you do not like our existing system of government, argue to have it changed.


Which brings me to my second point. (2) The Supreme Court is not infallible.

Red herring. Nobody suggested that the Supreme Court is infallible. In fact, plenty of the Court's past decisions prove that it isn't, a point that you make further down by citing Dred Scott v. Sandford. There's others too, such as Plessey v. Ferguson, Wickard v. Filburn and Korematsu v. U.S. to name a few more. But it is the final court of appeal.


Who is on the Supreme Court? 9 human beings-- 9 politically appointed judges that serve for life. They have no accountability.

Again, you seem to have a problem with the structure of our Government. That's your right, of course and you're free to argue that it should be changed. But until it is changed, this is the system that we have in place and you are not free to ignore it.


You pretend to be knowledgeable about the law, and yet you know nothing about the history of the Supreme Court. I'm not going to spoon feed you the laundry list of horrible decisions-- but, I suggest you start with Dred Scott.

Dred Scott was a horrible case and was, thankfully, effectively overturned by the Fourteenth Amendment. If you want to overturn a decision of the Court, then have Congress draft an Amendment and propose it to the States, or get the States to organize a constitutional convention. Both processes are outlined in the Constitution, so take a pick.


And with that, my final point (3) Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit. I wrote: If this woman wants to stand by her principles and religious beliefs regardless of the consequences, then she should be applauded as a HERO. The key part of my previous posting is underlined.

Faulty generalization: not all principles are equal or equally valid, and whether standing by one's principles regardless of the consequences is heroic greatly depends on the principle and what one has to do to stand by it. As you correctly pointed out in another post, we don't consider suicide bombers heroic, despite the fact that one could argue that they are "standing by their principles regardless of the consequences." While I don't think that Davis' actions even come close to the level of suicide bombers, the problem is the principle that she can force her religious beliefs on others and the fact is that her actions are illegal.



The state is free to fire her.

Except it's not - as an elected official she cannot be fired.


I didn't say that the state could not, or should not fire her given the circumstances.

I didn't either, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.


My point is that if she has the courage to take a stand based on religious principle, REGARDLESS OF THE CONSEQUENCES, then I think she should be applauded. You don't have to agree with me-- but please don't put words in my mouth.

I, on the other hand, think that people should not blindly be applauded for taking a stand based on some principle without, first, examining the principle in question.

Straw Man

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #194 on: September 06, 2015, 12:58:14 PM »
Relax homo. I don't give a shit about you being able to marry your boyfriend. In fact, it might help eradicate the herpes epidemic sweeping across the bay area.

Whatever you say Georgie Girl

Your anger is obvious and I enjoy it


B_B_C

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #195 on: September 06, 2015, 01:15:25 PM »
The stupidity of this question doesn't merit a response. I'll let you figure out the difference between the clerk in Kentucky who refuses to marry queers and ahmed the suicide bomber who blows up a bus full of school children.

both seem to be acting on their respective (presumably sincerely held) consciences
c

The Ugly

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #196 on: September 06, 2015, 02:34:46 PM »
Again, I never said that she shouldn't be fired. I suppose your lack of reading comprehension correlates with the idiotic comparison you made between this situation and sanctuary cities. Thanks for proving that it was beneath me to address you in the first place.

She can't be fired, genius. She was elected.

I'm sure you knew that, though.

George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #197 on: September 06, 2015, 03:05:34 PM »
Under Obergefell the Supreme Court has found that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry. Now, you may disagree with that, but it is the decision that the Court reached. Any state law that is contrary to that decision is null and void, just like any state law that limited other constitutionally-guaranteed rights or which went against Federal laws. See, inter alia, the Supremacy clause.


Right, and? The United States is a constitutional republic, not a direct democracy.


If you do not like our existing system of government, argue to have it changed.


Red herring. Nobody suggested that the Supreme Court is infallible. In fact, plenty of the Court's past decisions prove that it isn't, a point that you make further down by citing Dred Scott v. Sandford. There's others too, such as Plessey v. Ferguson, Wickard v. Filburn and Korematsu v. U.S. to name a few more. But it is the final court of appeal.


Again, you seem to have a problem with the structure of our Government. That's your right, of course and you're free to argue that it should be changed. But until it is changed, this is the system that we have in place and you are not free to ignore it.


Dred Scott was a horrible case and was, thankfully, effectively overturned by the Fourteenth Amendment. If you want to overturn a decision of the Court, then have Congress draft an Amendment and propose it to the States, or get the States to organize a constitutional convention. Both processes are outlined in the Constitution, so take a pick.


Faulty generalization: not all principles are equal or equally valid, and whether standing by one's principles regardless of the consequences is heroic greatly depends on the principle and what one has to do to stand by it. As you correctly pointed out in another post, we don't consider suicide bombers heroic, despite the fact that one could argue that they are "standing by their principles regardless of the consequences." While I don't think that Davis' actions even come close to the level of suicide bombers, the problem is the principle that she can force her religious beliefs on others and the fact is that her actions are illegal.



Except it's not - as an elected official she cannot be fired.


I didn't either, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.


I, on the other hand, think that people should not blindly be applauded for taking a stand based on some principle without, first, examining the principle in question.

I was somewhat impressed with your counterargument. Then, I noticed you interjected the phrase inter alia into your response. This confirms my sincerely held suspicion that you are a witless fuckwad masquerading as an intellectual on the internet. Let me guess, you just took the LSAT, or better yet, you stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night?  ::)

Your wholly unnecessary use of the phrase inter alia, demonstrates, inter alia that you are a jackass.

I have considered your remaining contentions and found them to be entirely without merit.  ;D

George Whorewell

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #198 on: September 06, 2015, 03:07:17 PM »
She can't be fired, genius. She was elected.

I'm sure you knew that, though.

Right. The only option was sending her to jail.

avxo

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #199 on: September 06, 2015, 03:19:26 PM »
I was somewhat impressed with your counterargument. Then, I noticed you interjected the phrase inter alia into your response. This confirms my sincerely held suspicion that you are a witless fuckwad masquerading as an intellectual on the internet. Let me guess, you just took the LSAT, or better yet, you stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night?  ::)

Your wholly unnecessary use of the phrase inter alia, demonstrates, inter alia that you are a jackass.

I have considered your remaining contentions and found them to be entirely without merit.  ;D

The LSAT? Good grief, no... I have as much interest in attending law school as I do in staying a Holiday Inn Express. That is to say, none at all. I use the same vocabulary that I use when writing academic papers. Besides, why complain? It did help give you an excuse to not answer any of the substantive points I made.