Author Topic: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.  (Read 35517 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #225 on: September 07, 2015, 11:53:25 AM »
She is not being held without bail, because THERE IS NO BAIL IN CONTEMPT CASES. Bail comes into play when you are charged with something and are released on bail pending a trial that will happen at a later day. She was already found in contempt and sentenced to jail.

Wow.  Big distinction there. . . . .

Is she really being held indefinitely without being released?  Is that better? 

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #226 on: September 07, 2015, 11:55:08 AM »
Wow.  Big distinction there. . . . .

Is she really being held indefinitely without being released?  Is that better? 

the conservative judge is holding her according to the law.  He doesnt like it, but he obeys it.

so much LOL at conservatives willing to chuck laws out the window when they disagree with them.

Dos Equis

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #227 on: September 07, 2015, 12:25:14 PM »
Why Can't the Kentucky Clerk Get Bail?
By Greg Richter   |
Sunday, 06 Sep 2015

Rowan County, Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis has been jailed without bail since Thursday for refusing to allow her office to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Her attorney, Matthew Staver, says that even some people accused of murder are allowed to be free on bail while their trail is pending.

"This woman who hasn't done any crime at all," Staver told Newsmax on Sunday. "She's being held without bail for an indefinite period of time. In fact, one of the U.S. marshals when they were directed by the judge to take her into custody told her he had never arrested somebody who had not committed a crime."

GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee told ABC's "This Week" Sunday that there is a double standard for liberals and conservatives when it comes to violating same-sex marriage laws. He pointed to former San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsome and President Barack Obama's former Attorney General Eric Holder for allowing same-sex marriage when it was illegal, yet suffering no consequences.

But Davis, who says same-sex marriage violates her Christian beliefs, is in control of her own destiny, Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz tells Newsmax.

"She can get out immediately," Dershowitz said. "All she has to do is resign her job … and say, 'Look, I can't do this in conscience. And because I can't do it in conscience, I really can't hold the job of being clerk.' That's the principled decision."

Davis' being able to continue to serve as county clerk while refusing to issue marriage licenses would be comparable to a conscientious objector, rather than declining to enter the Army, joining instead, then refusing to follow orders, Dershowitz said.

U.S. District Court Judge David Bunning has said he jailed Davis without bail in an effort to force her to comply on the U.S. Supreme Court ruling this summer legalizing gay marriage nationally. Allowing her to pay a fine wouldn't have worked, Bunning said, because Davis has a large group of supporters willing to cover the cost.

Staver, Davis' lawyer, is skeptical that Bunning ever even considered a fine – even though the gay couples seeking the original injuction against Davis specifically requested a fine and not jail time.

The temporary injunction ended at the end of the day August 31, Staver said, and at 10:30 the next morning a motion for contempt was filed. Bunning set a 1 p.m. hearing, allowing only a five-page response, when the rules allow for 20 pages.

When the hearing was held 48 hours later, Bunning already had the jailer – who had to travel from another county – in the courtroom ready to take Davis into custody.

"Then when he read he was going to confine her, he read from a prepared statement he had already written, and didn't give civil penalties at a graduated rate," Staver said. Jailing Davis was the judge's intent "from the very beginning," Staver said.

University of Alabama School of Law professor Ronald Krotoszynski Jr. tells Newsmax that he was surprised as well. A judge usually starts with a fine first, Krotoszynski said, before moving to incarceration. The exception is with journalists who refuse to give up their confidential sources.

Staver is appealing the decision to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, but Krotoszynski said he doesn't expect to see the decision overturned.

Unless the Sixth Circuit finds the judge was "wildy inappropriate" in his ruling, it will stand, he said.

Staver feels differently, telling Newsmax, "This is just this particular judge who violates the rule of law to reach his desired end."

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/kentucky-clerk-bail-gay/2015/09/06/id/673857/#ixzz3l5AzJz8t

The Ugly

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #228 on: September 07, 2015, 12:48:51 PM »
Chick denies gays a marriage license - imposes HER morality, violating THEIR civil rights - but she's the discrimination victim?

This is the mindset, seriously?

Dos Equis

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #229 on: September 07, 2015, 12:50:55 PM »
She's being turned into a martyr given the heavy-handed way this is being handled.

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« Reply #230 on: September 07, 2015, 12:54:39 PM »
She's being turned into a martyr given the heavy-handed way this is being handled.

No.  She is being exposed as an idiot who let her bigot views lead her to jail.

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #231 on: September 07, 2015, 12:55:28 PM »
more crazy than claiming a book allegedly containing rules from a God forbid her to follow the law and issue a marriage license to homosexuals?

Don't know what her problem is, she is already condemned to hell for the same thing when she issued that marriage license to that transgendered couple.

Dos Equis

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #232 on: September 07, 2015, 01:01:00 PM »
No.  She is being exposed as an idiot who let her bigot views lead her to jail.

No.  She is being imprisoned like a violent criminal for standing on principle.  And locking her up like a murderer is only making her bigger than she needs to be.  She is probably going to make money when this is all said and done. 

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #233 on: September 07, 2015, 01:04:11 PM »
She's being turned into a martyr given the heavy-handed way this is being handled.

by a conservative judge in a conservative county, upholding a conservative law?

Dem libs are the problem tho, huh?

And locking her up like a murderer

Some murderers actually get bail lol.  she does not.

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #234 on: September 07, 2015, 01:04:38 PM »
Madonna's Brother Defends Jailed Clerk Who Refused Marriage Licenses for Gay Couples
by Ryan Gajewski   
9/5/2015

"Once again, the gay community feels the need to be sore winners," wrote Christopher Ciccone, who himself is openly gay.

Madonna's brother, Christopher Ciccone, is speaking out in defense of the county clerk in Kentucky who was recently jailed after refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Ciccone, who is openly gay, posted a message to Facebook on Friday in which he said that Kim Davis should be granted the right deny the licenses, with Ciccone citing her "religious freedom."

"The county clerk in [Kentucky] deserves about as much support as you would give her if she were a Muslim [woman] who insisted on covering her face and refused not only gay marriages licenses, but divorce, accusations of rape and driving a car without your man's approval," he wrote.

Ciccone acknowledged that Davis is required to follow federal law before he added: "But why should she when DOJ and other civil authorities don't follow federal law when they choose not to, i.e. Washington State and Colorado (POT) come to mind…or the abstract notion of 'sanctuary cities.' I always thought that sanctuary was the province of churches."

"Once again, the gay community feels the need to be sore winners," he continued. "Is it so difficult to allow this women her religion? Or must we destroy her in order for her to betray her faith. No matter how we judge, it's truth. The rights we have all fought for, mean nothing, if we deny her hers."

Ciccone began his entertainment career as one of Madonna's backup dancers before moving on to direct music videos for such stars as Dolly Parton.

His full post can be seen below.

The county clerk in Kentucy deserves about as much support as you would give her if she were a muslim women who insisted on covering her face and refused not only gay marriages licenses, but divorce, accusations of rape and driving a car without ur mans approval.....perspective is everything.....this woman is a civil servant, she is required to follow federal law.....but why should she....when DOJ and other civil authories don't follow federal law when they choose not to.....i.e. Washington State and Colorado (POT) come to mind...or the abstract notion of "sanctuary cities".....i always thought that sanctuary was the province of churches.......these things aside....this is why we have elections.....if the folks of this county in Kentucy don't want her as the county clerk....then don't have to vote for her.....that is how a democracy works....not to mention the courts.

In the mean time.....since when are we the arbiter of other peoples faith?.......can you honestly say that you know how much a person is allowed to have??..if i'm not mistaken, it's in the constitution.....somethi ng about religious freedom or something......selective shaming and bullying corrupts a democracy....freedom of press, speech and religion give it strength. Not to mention reason and the god given compassion we as humans have a right and responsibility to practice. Once again, the gay community feels the need to be sore winners. Is it so difficult to allow this women her religion?...or must we destroy her in order for here to betray her faith. No matter how we judge its truth. The rights we have all fought for, mean nothing, if we deny her hers.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/madonnas-brother-defends-jailed-clerk-820753

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #235 on: September 07, 2015, 01:05:17 PM »
No.  She is being imprisoned like a violent criminal for standing on principle.  And locking her up like a murderer is only making her bigger than she needs to be.  She is probably going to make money when this is all said and done. 

No she is being jailed like any lawyer or other person in contempt of court.. the heavy handedness comes from her own stubbornness to refuse to follow the law and perform her duties.

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #236 on: September 07, 2015, 01:07:03 PM »
No.  She is being imprisoned like a violent criminal for standing on principle.  And locking her up like a murderer is only making her bigger than she needs to be.  She is probably going to make money when this is all said and done. 

Not for imposing her ignorant horseshit on innocent victims?

Too much, guy.

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« Reply #237 on: September 07, 2015, 01:10:07 PM »
Madonna's Brother Defends Jailed Clerk Who Refused Marriage Licenses for Gay Couples
by Ryan Gajewski   
9/5/2015

"Once again, the gay community feels the need to be sore winners," wrote Christopher Ciccone, who himself is openly gay.

Madonna's brother, Christopher Ciccone, is speaking out in defense of the county clerk in Kentucky who was recently jailed after refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Ciccone, who is openly gay, posted a message to Facebook on Friday in which he said that Kim Davis should be granted the right deny the licenses, with Ciccone citing her "religious freedom."

"The county clerk in [Kentucky] deserves about as much support as you would give her if she were a Muslim [woman] who insisted on covering her face and refused not only gay marriages licenses, but divorce, accusations of rape and driving a car without your man's approval," he wrote.
Ciccone acknowledged that Davis is required to follow federal law before he added: "But why should she when DOJ and other civil authorities don't follow federal law when they choose not to, i.e. Washington State and Colorado (POT) come to mind…or the abstract notion of 'sanctuary cities.' I always thought that sanctuary was the province of churches."

"Once again, the gay community feels the need to be sore winners," he continued. "Is it so difficult to allow this women her religion? Or must we destroy her in order for her to betray her faith. No matter how we judge, it's truth. The rights we have all fought for, mean nothing, if we deny her hers."

Ciccone began his entertainment career as one of Madonna's backup dancers before moving on to direct music videos for such stars as Dolly Parton.

His full post can be seen below.

The county clerk in Kentucy deserves about as much support as you would give her if she were a muslim women who insisted on covering her face and refused not only gay marriages licenses, but divorce, accusations of rape and driving a car without ur mans approval.....perspective is everything.....this woman is a civil servant, she is required to follow federal law.....but why should she....when DOJ and other civil authories don't follow federal law when they choose not to.....i.e. Washington State and Colorado (POT) come to mind...or the abstract notion of "sanctuary cities".....i always thought that sanctuary was the province of churches.......these things aside....this is why we have elections.....if the folks of this county in Kentucy don't want her as the county clerk....then don't have to vote for her.....that is how a democracy works....not to mention the courts.

In the mean time.....since when are we the arbiter of other peoples faith?.......can you honestly say that you know how much a person is allowed to have??..if i'm not mistaken, it's in the constitution.....somethi ng about religious freedom or something......selective shaming and bullying corrupts a democracy....freedom of press, speech and religion give it strength. Not to mention reason and the god given compassion we as humans have a right and responsibility to practice. Once again, the gay community feels the need to be sore winners. Is it so difficult to allow this women her religion?...or must we destroy her in order for here to betray her faith. No matter how we judge its truth. The rights we have all fought for, mean nothing, if we deny her hers.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/madonnas-brother-defends-jailed-clerk-820753

In other words she deserves NO support..

Dos Equis

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #238 on: September 07, 2015, 01:12:07 PM »
No she is being jailed like any lawyer or other person in contempt of court.. the heavy handedness comes from her own stubbornness to refuse to follow the law and perform her duties.

I disagree.  There are a number of ways this could have been handled other than locking her up indefinitely. 

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #239 on: September 07, 2015, 01:13:37 PM »
Not for imposing her ignorant horseshit on innocent victims?

Too much, guy.

I don't agree with the way she has handled this and I don't believe she should be allowed to prevent people from getting marriage licenses. 

I also don't agree with locking her up. 

But yes, this is about principle for her. 

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« Reply #240 on: September 07, 2015, 01:17:28 PM »
I disagree.  There are a number of ways this could have been handled other than locking her up indefinitely. 

like?

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #241 on: September 07, 2015, 01:17:58 PM »
I disagree.  There are a number of ways this could have been handled other than locking her up indefinitely. 

The Court explicitly asked her if she would allow the employees in her office to issue certificates and she said she would not. The problem is that her employees are subject to termination and have to listen to her as she is their boss; she isn't subject to termination (because she can't be fired - only impeached) so what's left? How would you suggest that this is handled? Remember, Kim Davis is not above the law, and she can't run her little slice of America as a fiefdom where Kim Davis' personal religious beliefs dictate what laws do and don't apply.  

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #242 on: September 07, 2015, 01:22:25 PM »
like?

Fining her, which is apparently what some of the gay couples requested.  Issue an injunction preventing her from entering the office. 

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #243 on: September 07, 2015, 01:25:31 PM »
Fining her, which is apparently what some of the gay couples requested.  Issue an injunction preventing her from entering the office. 

That would not work, as a fund by those with her same mindset was already created to counter any fines.

The money would have come from the fund and not herself. Hence why the judge decided on the jail time.

Are you saying that elected officials are not the same elected officials when they are not in the office?

I would say that she would have still been telling her employees to not do what they agreed they would do. If that's the case, then she is effectively going to end up in jail over this anyway.

There was no stopping what she put in motion herself.

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #244 on: September 07, 2015, 01:27:18 PM »
Fining her, which is apparently what some of the gay couples requested.  Issue an injunction preventing her from entering the office. 

The Judge explicitly explained why he didn't fine her: because he didn't this would have a deterrent effect and fix the issue - that is, to bring her into compliance. It's unclear what such an injunction would achieve or how it would serve to bring the office into compliance. In fact, the injunction would very likely not bring her into compliance which is what the Judge here is, correctly, trying to achieve.

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #245 on: September 07, 2015, 01:28:12 PM »
I disagree.  There are a number of ways this could have been handled other than locking her up indefinitely. 

She has the keys to her jail cell. All she needs to do is comply with the Court's decision, just like everyone else.

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« Reply #246 on: September 07, 2015, 01:32:37 PM »
The Judge explicitly explained why he didn't fine her: because he didn't this would have a deterrent effect and fix the issue - that is, to bring her into compliance. It's unclear what such an injunction would achieve or how it would serve to bring the office into compliance. In fact, the injunction would very likely not bring her into compliance which is what the Judge here is, correctly, trying to achieve.

I disagree with the judge.  A petty move to not fine her based on the possibility of someone else picking up the tab. 

Bringing her into compliance is part of the issue.  The bigger issue is ensuring everyone who is entitled to a license receives one.  That could have been accomplished by banning her from the office until she complies.  Indefinite jail time for something like this is just crazy. 

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« Reply #247 on: September 07, 2015, 01:33:26 PM »
I don't agree with the way she has handled this and I don't believe she should be allowed to prevent people from getting marriage licenses. 

I also don't agree with locking her up

But yes, this is about principle for her. 

Jail sounds excessive, yeah, but what's the alternative?

She's FORCING the martyr bullshit, no one wanted her jailed. She insisted. And now all her like-minded bibleheads cry foul, doing the work for her. All coming around to coddlie the poor "victim."

Where were her fucking principles when she divorced three times? An 'Ok, staaaaaar-tiiiiiiing ... NOW!' kinda thing, where unfortunate couples get screwed by her fresh rebirth?

Stereotypically simple-minded hypocrites, man, an impossibly predictable joke.

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #248 on: September 07, 2015, 01:34:40 PM »
I disagree with the judge.  A petty move to not fine her based on the possibility of someone else picking up the tab. 

Bringing her into compliance is part of the issue.  The bigger issue is ensuring everyone who is entitled to a license receives one.  That could have been accomplished by banning her from the office until she complies.  Indefinite jail time for something like this is just crazy. 

Does she not have the ability to remove herself by simply stating and holding to her statement that she will not interfere in others giving marriage licenses to gay couples?

She has already stated that the license isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Also, as such, how do we know she will not go back and nullify those licenses if she is released?

This is a woman who can go in and rescind every license that was produced and basically "unmarry" people right?

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Re: Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.
« Reply #249 on: September 07, 2015, 01:36:20 PM »
Jail sounds excessive, yeah, but what's the alternative?

She's FORCING the martyr bullshit, no one wanted her jailed. She insisted. And now all her like-minded bibleheads cry foul, doing the work for her. All coming around to coddlie the poor "victim."

Where were her fucking principles when she divorced three times? An 'Ok, staaaaaar-tiiiiiiing ... NOW!' kinda thing, where unfortunate couples get screwed by her fresh rebirth?

Stereotypically simple-minded hypocrites, man, an impossibly predictable joke.

I just explained the alternative:  fine her and ban her from the office.