Whataburger fires employee for refusing to serve police officers

[Al Doggity]

Pansy scale?  I like it.   

I think the cops should have reported it to management, which they apparently did, and left it at that.  The employee was fired.  The restaurant apologized and said the conduct was not acceptable.  No need to put them on blast when it was the apparent isolated conduct of one knucklehead. 

If this is a trend, however, then maybe it's worth letting other cops know. 

So, what is the difference between filing a report with management  and filing a discriminatory claim?  The purpose of both is to punish either the business or the employee. There's not a difference. The cases are pretty similar ( if anything the restaurant acted in a less discriminatory fashion than the barbershop) and the way the customers reacted was similar (if anything, the woman acted less dramatically than the police officers) . You're  using nonsensical circular logic to explain away differences that don't exist.

[Dos Equis]

So, what is the difference between filing a report with management  and filing a discriminatory claim?  The purpose of both is to punish either the business or the employee. There's not a difference. The cases are pretty similar ( if anything the restaurant acted in a less discriminatory fashion than the barbershop) and the way the customers reacted was similar (if anything, the woman acted less dramatically than the police officers) . You're  using nonsensical circular logic to explain away differences that don't exist.

Talk about nonsensical logic.   

First of all, you don't have to "file" a report with management.  You just need to complain, which can be a simple phone call.  That's probably what happened here.  At most, it's probably an email or a short letter.  If you don't understand the difference between that and going to someplace like the EEOC and filing a formal complaint, then I cannot help you.  Maybe you should Google what's involved with filing that kind of complaint so you have a better understanding of what's involved. 

Second, when someone files a complaint, they are often asking for money or some other kind of compensation/remedy.  Complaining to management about denial of service isn't asking for money.  The person complaining (in this case the officers) would likely just get a free meal.  Night and day difference. 

[TuHolmes]

Talk about nonsensical logic.   

First of all, you don't have to "file" a report with management.  You just need to complain, which can be a simple phone call.  That's probably what happened here.  At most, it's probably an email or a short letter.  If you don't understand the difference between that and going to someplace like the EEOC and filing a formal complaint, then I cannot help you.  Maybe you should Google what's involved with filing that kind of complaint so you have a better understanding of what's involved. 

Second, when someone files a complaint, they are often asking for money or some other kind of compensation/remedy.  Complaining to management about denial of service isn't asking for money.  The person complaining (in this case the officers) would likely just get a free meal.  Night and day difference. 

Emails  and letters are considered written and formal.

If you send an email or letter complaint to management or HR, that is considered a formal complaint.

I'm sure you know that though.

[Al Doggity]

Talk about nonsensical logic.   

First of all, you don't have to "file" a report with management.  You just need to complain, which can be a simple phone call.  That's probably what happened here.  At most, it's probably an email or a short letter.  If you don't understand the difference between that and going to someplace like the EEOC and filing a formal complaint, then I cannot help you.  Maybe you should Google what's involved with filing that kind of complaint so you have a better understanding of what's involved. 

Second, when someone files a complaint, they are often asking for money or some other kind of compensation/remedy.  Complaining to management about denial of service isn't asking for money.  The person complaining (in this case the officers) would likely just get a free meal.  Night and day difference. 

The woman in that story filed a complaint with the state licensing board, not the eeoc. You can file a complaint on the board's website and it requires the same amount of information as the McDonald's restaurant feedback page. Right on the licensing board's website it says that it is not a court of law and financial restitution can only be made through a civil action. The most a complaint could garner is a fine, which a) wouldn't have gone to her and b) is on par with firing an employee.

[Dos Equis]

Emails  and letters are considered written and formal.

If you send an email or letter complaint to management or HR, that is considered a formal complaint.

I'm sure you know that though.

By formal complaint I mean something filed with a court or administrative agency.  A "complaint" submitted to management is something handled internally by the company. 

[Dos Equis]

The woman in that story filed a complaint with the state licensing board, not the eeoc. You can file a complaint on the board's website and it requires the same amount of information as the McDonald's restaurant feedback page. Right on the licensing board's website it says that it is not a court of law and financial restitution can only be made through a civil action. The most a complaint could garner is a fine, which a) wouldn't have gone to her and b) is on par with firing an employee.

I was using the EEOC as an example.  I am talking about any court or administrative agency, which would include a state licensing board.   

I haven't looked at the state licensing board website (it's not that important), but if you say her only remedy is a fine, then I'll accept that.

[Al Doggity]

I was using the EEOC as an example.  I am talking about any court or administrative agency, which would include a state licensing board.   

I haven't looked at the state licensing board website (it's not that important), but if you say her only remedy is a fine, then I'll accept that.

I am not using a random example. I'm telling you exactly what happened.  And what you said doesn't apply to the specific licensing board that was involved in that story.

[Dos Equis]

I am not using a random example. I'm telling you exactly what happened.  And what you said doesn't apply to the specific licensing board that was involved in that story.

You asked me a general question about the difference between complaining to management and filing a discrimination claim. 

[TuHolmes]

By formal complaint I mean something filed with a court or administrative agency.  A "complaint" submitted to management is something handled internally by the company. 

When your company is "government", I would dare say that they are very close to the same thing.

[The Ugly]

Man, if that 50 year-old fella was legitimately joking, this kinda sucks. I can see f'n around like that - but then the cops quickly drive away ... "Hey! I was messing around, guys! Come baaaaack!" Effed up.

Assuming he's telling the truth, of course.

[Al Doggity]

You asked me a general question about the difference between complaining to management and filing a discrimination claim.  

  Following a discussion of two specific examples.

Even if that wasn't the case, that explanation didn't make sense. Customers don't file complaints with the EEOC, employees do. Outside of civil litigation, none of the agencies that a customer would file a complaint with are entitled to dispense monetary damages.

Man, if that 50 year-old fella was legitimately joking, this kinda sucks. I can see f'n around like that - but then the cops quickly drive away ... "Hey! I was messing around, guys! Come baaaaack!" Effed up.

Assuming he's telling the truth, of course.

Yeah, I'm being facetious about the cops' reactions, but it looks like it's not exactly what they claimed. There were witnesses who spoke to the media that said it seemed pretty obvious the guy was joking and the officers came back in about a minute after they left and the guy told them he was joking.

[Agnostic007]

without audio and video we'll probably never know. Seems to me, if someone says something to me like "Take my wife to jail, she stole my happiness" I can conclude it's a joke. Or , "I didn't do it officer", another common joke. In my decades of policing I've never come across an employee at a business that said "we don't serve cops". I would imagine IF that were to happen, the person would immediately feel compelled to demonstrate it was a joke either by laughing and saying "Just messing with ya" or some other sign they weren't serious. In this current environment I wouldn't find it too hard to believe someone would be anti cop enough to make that statement. Then later it was down played as a joke. In other words, I think It would have been pretty clear to the cop at the time if it was a joke or not. If it has to be explained later.. then it probably wasn't.   

[Skeletor]

without audio and video we'll probably never know. Seems to me, if someone says something to me like "Take my wife to jail, she stole my happiness" I can conclude it's a joke. Or , "I didn't do it officer", another common joke. In my decades of policing I've never come across an employee at a business that said "we don't serve cops". I would imagine IF that were to happen, the person would immediately feel compelled to demonstrate it was a joke either by laughing and saying "Just messing with ya" or some other sign they weren't serious. In this current environment I wouldn't find it too hard to believe someone would be anti cop enough to make that statement. Then later it was down played as a joke. In other words, I think It would have been pretty clear to the cop at the time if it was a joke or not. If it has to be explained later.. then it probably wasn't.   

Or maybe the employee did mean it as a joke and could possibly have elaborated immediately  "Just messing with ya"  but the cop chose, for his/her own reasons, to distort the facts. As you said, without audio, video and perhaps some more witnesses we can't know for sure.

[Agnostic007]

Or maybe the employee did mean it as a joke and could possibly have elaborated immediately  "Just messing with ya"  but the cop chose, for his/her own reasons, to distort the facts. As you said, without audio, video and perhaps some more witnesses we can't know for sure.

That's possible too but asking myself which is more likely... I'd say that is less likely, though possible.   

[Skeletor]

That's possible too but asking myself which is more likely... I'd say that is less likely, though possible.   

Since it's relevant to the article, what is your opinion about cops doing off-duty security work while on uniform? Some police departments allow this, some don't. I think it's wrong to wear the uniform while off-duty and working for a private company/person.

[Agnostic007]

Since it's relevant to the article, what is your opinion about cops doing off-duty security work while on uniform? Some police departments allow this, some don't. I think it's wrong to wear the uniform while off-duty and working for a private company/person.

I don't have a problem with it as long as their are stipulations. For example, you cannot enforce house rules. You are only there to enforce city and state laws. You are limited in how much you can work so as not to impact your performance at your primary job. The business goes through a vetting process to include providing adequate insurance. Most places that hire cops do so because they have had issues in the past. So on duty officers have to respond to the disturbances and it takes away from other duties.  Secondary employment reduces the calls for service to on duty by providing on site deterrent. The business that is creating the need for police response it therefore paying for police verses tax payers.  

[Dos Equis]

When your company is "government", I would dare say that they are very close to the same thing.

Not really.  An employer is an employer, whether in the private or public sector.

[Dos Equis]

Following a discussion of two specific examples.

Even if that wasn't the case, that explanation didn't make sense. Customers don't file complaints with the EEOC, employees do. Outside of civil litigation, none of the agencies that a customer would file a complaint with are entitled to dispense monetary damages.

Responding to a general comment made in a discussion about one specific example.  I never really commented on the second example. 

As I said, I was using the EEOC as an example of an administrative agency. 

What happens when a restaurant denies service to a Muslim, solely because he is a Muslim?  Where would the customer go to file a complaint? 

[TuHolmes]

Not really.  An employer is an employer, whether in the private or public sector.

You and I know that all "employers" are not created equal.

[Dos Equis]

You and I know that all "employers" are not created equal.

Of course not.  But that doesn't make an internal complaint procedure any different.  There is essentially no difference between a "complaint" submitted to a  public or private employer. 

Or maybe I don't understand whatever point you're trying to make? 

[The Ugly]

without audio and video we'll probably never know. Seems to me, if someone says something to me like "Take my wife to jail, she stole my happiness" I can conclude it's a joke. Or , "I didn't do it officer", another common joke. In my decades of policing I've never come across an employee at a business that said "we don't serve cops". I would imagine IF that were to happen, the person would immediately feel compelled to demonstrate it was a joke either by laughing and saying "Just messing with ya" or some other sign they weren't serious. In this current environment I wouldn't find it too hard to believe someone would be anti cop enough to make that statement. Then later it was down played as a joke. In other words, I think It would have been pretty clear to the cop at the time if it was a joke or not. If it has to be explained later.. then it probably wasn't.   

Yeah, only going on the assumption they heard him and immediately bolted. Which itself seems far-fetched.

[TuHolmes]

Of course not.  But that doesn't make an internal complaint procedure any different.  There is essentially no difference between a "complaint" submitted to a  public or private employer. 

Or maybe I don't understand whatever point you're trying to make? 

You rarely do, or you do and you just ignore it.

[Dos Equis]

You rarely do, or you do and you just ignore it.

Thanks for the clarification. 

[Al Doggity]

Responding to a general comment made in a discussion about one specific example.  I never really commented on the second example. 

  You responded to several of my posts about both examples and acknowledged both examples. You said this, shortly before what you are describing as a general comment:

Overall, though, I don't think this story is the same as the barbershop story.

Clearly, the two examples were being discussed in tandem.

As I said, I was using the EEOC as an example of an administrative agency. 

What happens when a restaurant denies service to a Muslim, solely because he is a Muslim?  Where would the customer go to file a complaint? 

And it's not an accurate example to use. It wasn't used in the specific case we were discussing and wouldn't be used in the cop case or any similar cases. Short of lawsuits, I think most complaints like this would be handled by local licensing agencies and only levy fines.

[Dos Equis]

You responded to several of my posts about both examples and acknowledged both examples. You said this, shortly before what you are describing as a general comment:

Overall, though, I don't think this story is the same as the barbershop story.

Clearly, the two examples were being discussed in tandem.



And it's not an accurate example to use. It wasn't used in the specific case we were discussing and wouldn't be used in the cop case or any similar cases. Short of lawsuits, I think most complaints like this would be handled by local licensing agencies and only levy fines.

By second example I was referring to the second story in this thread posted by Lurker.

So you're not aware that a Muslim who is denied service by a restaurant solely because he is Muslim could file a complaint in a federal or state agency and get monetary compensation?