Gunther and company looking HUGE today!

[Condor]

his shoulders are still 3 times the size of the average man's and if he had his shirt off I bet most in here would be surprised how muscular he would look

he's alot bigger than the guy next to him who probably think he's a muscular guy even though he has a double chin

E

That "guy" is Flex Lewis from the UK....he's supposedly an up-and-comer.

[Stavios]

Wtf are you talking about Flex lewis is 2 time more muscular than dorian 

[Earl1972]

Wtf are you talking about Flex lewis is 2 time more muscular than dorian 

you mean two times more fat

look at his face and neck

in the condition they are in the pic dorian would own him on stage

you guys are probably the guys that walk around at 25% bodyfat thinking you're "huge" lol

E

[dav-bol]

You know jack shit about steroids. Testosterone is not toxic and there are a lot of people who have been on for several decades and are still healthy. Orals can be toxic but I know guys who have cycled heavy doses of orals for a decade and their livers are fine. Get a clue. 

Bumping this. ^^^^

The New England Journal of Medicine ran a peer-reviewed study of a 12 week long 600 mg/week cycle of test. enanthate.....

Results: ZERO side effects on liver enzymes.

Infer from this what you will. Granted 600 mg isn't shit but the writing is on the wall.
Test is EXTREMELY well tolerated at high doses for long periods. Medical fact.

[Ex Coelis]

Thanks to their genetics, the best pros don't need tonnes of juice to pile on tonnes of muscle. They just happen to have a greater genetic propensity towards gaining muscle mass. Like Dave Polumbo said, once you take more than a certain amount of juice a week, the only thing that increases are the side effects.

In Dillett's final article for MD, he talked about how he and his former room-mate Lee Priest McCutcheon both took surprisingly low doses. Furthermore, Lee said in MD that people who do use gear year round are total nads who are going to kill themselves. These two are among the most genetically blessed athletes ever to compete on the IFBB stage.

It's tremendously important to "clean up" after the contest season to detoxify the system. no gear and plenty of cranberry juice are important.

Just because the Pros are blessed is no reason to hate on them - proffesional bodybuilders are icons and glowing examples of what is possible through hard work

[Johnny Apollo]

You know jack shit about steroids. Testosterone is not toxic and there are a lot of people who have been on for several decades and are still healthy. Orals can be toxic but I know guys who have cycled heavy doses of orals for a decade and their livers are fine. Get a clue. 

WRONG...


Anabolic Steroid use can temporarly increase LDL cholesterol levels and increases liver toxicity.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-02/uoc--asu021706.php


Testosterone itself's liver toxicity is low but testosterone isn't the only steroid Pro bodybuilders use.

Anadrol,Anavar,Dianabol...ALL have high liver toxicity levels.

[Johnny Apollo]

Bumping this. ^^^^

The New England Journal of Medicine ran a peer-reviewed study of a 12 week long 600 mg/week cycle of test. enanthate.....

Results: ZERO side effects on liver enzymes.

Infer from this what you will. Granted 600 mg isn't shit but the writing is on the wall.
Test is EXTREMELY well tolerated at high doses for long periods. Medical fact.

If you think Testosterone is the only Steroid Pro's use you're deluding yourself.

Secondly Testosterone has other side effects than liver toxicity when used continously including high blood pressure and decreased HPTA functions.

[jaejonna]

So as a normal person who never took anything, I conclude that this thread says to take TEst and its safe... like Arnold and Barry do..

OK well based on what they say on the internet... I am going to purchase that somewhere 

[Johnny Apollo]

Thanks to their genetics, the best pros don't need tonnes of juice to pile on tonnes of muscle. They just happen to have a greater genetic propensity towards gaining muscle mass. Like Dave Polumbo said, once you take more than a certain amount of juice a week, the only thing that increases are the side effects.

In Dillett's final article for MD, he talked about how he and his former room-mate Lee Priest McCutcheon both took surprisingly low doses. Furthermore, Lee said in MD that people who do use gear year round are total nads who are going to kill themselves. These two are among the most genetically blessed athletes ever to compete on the IFBB stage.

It's tremendously important to "clean up" after the contest season to detoxify the system. no gear and plenty of cranberry juice are important.

Just because the Pros are blessed is no reason to hate on them - proffesional bodybuilders are icons and glowing examples of what is possible through hard work

You're correct. Once you reach a certain point in dosage you just can't grow anymore from it no matter how much you increase. Some people after taking for several years can continue to increase their dose to 10 TIMES the amount they took before and still won't see benefits from it but will see plenty of side effects.

Pro's aren't big because they simply use more drugs than anyone else,That's absurd. If it were true than anyone abusing steroids could be as big as a pro and compete aside them...This isn't the case.

[Johnny Apollo]

Yes Flex lewis is alot more muscular than Dorian is right now. Look at their forearms, It's obvious.

[gibberj2]

i dont know about that. look at the forearms yes. but look at this guy's OTHER forearm. when you pose like that the forearm always looks big. and look at the chest comparison. dorian kills him.

[GMCtrk]

Wrong....Talk to Any Pro who is open about their steroid use and they will tell you that the amount they use is average. The people claiming they use extreme doses of steroids are the people who have used steroids and didn't gain much weight so they conclude the pro's must use excessive amounts to get their size...

In reality the Pro's train their ass off and have great genetics plus they use AAS. In reality the Pro's who use excessive amounts are the one's who never place very well. The ones you would not expect. Most Low Teir NPC competitors use 5 times as much as Top level professionals do. Most 230lb Joe Blow's training in the Gym down the street use 10 times as much as TOp level Pro's do and still look like crap.

Spend some time on an Anabolic Steroid board. Some people post some incredible doses that they use and extreme cycles and then post their pictures and you wouldn't even think they were using steroids..Just normal flabby guys with a few pounds of muscle added.


If you used these substances year round...Your liver would give out within a few years. The fact that we don't see pro's dying left and right is proof they don't use extreme doses. Ronnie Coleman is in his Mid 40's...There is no way he would of lived to that age on a year round cycle for over 10 years...Not Possible. Your liver toxicity levels would be off the charts if you tried to go on a year round cycle,Espically with excessive doses and stacking.

you really have no clue what you are taking about. Ronnie is "on" 24/7 365. Simple knowlege of human physiology and evolutionary biology would tell you that. If *any* top pro comes "off" they will shoot down in size dramatically. There was recently a top amateur competitor who died and apparently he had been "on" since 1996. Granted, Ronnie likely doesnt dose as high when he takes 3 months off, but he definitely is still on, and at much higher than HRT levels. What you are saying may have held true in the 70s and 80s when size was not nearly as important, but nowadays, WHY would a top pro come off?

[Johnny Apollo]

i dont know about that. look at the forearms yes. but look at this guy's OTHER forearm. when you pose like that the forearm always looks big. and look at the chest comparison. dorian kills him.

Dorian is simply taller. Other than that Flex Lewis makes him look puny muscularly.

[Johnny Apollo]

you really have no clue what you are taking about. Ronnie is "on" 24/7 365. Simple knowlege of human physiology and evolutionary biology would tell you that.

Big words you don't understand...Explain how Evolitionary Biology would tell me that..haha.

If *any* top pro comes "off" they will shoot down in size dramatically. There was recently a top amateur competitor who died and apparently he had been "on" since 1996.

1.I've already explained PCT, Learn to read. With Post Cycle Therapy the loss of size is reduced dramatically. This is what Pro's do.

2.Source? Doctor record proving he had been using since 1996 nonstop?

What you are saying may have held true in the 70s and 80s when size was not nearly as important, but nowadays, WHY would a top pro come off?

Because if they didn't they would of died years ago from liver failure, Heart attack or other serious problems. A "Non stop cycle" would give the body no time to repair itself from the steroid cycle and seriously damage the endocrine system along with your internal organs. If Most Pro's were on a "never ending cycle" we would see them dying right and left...We don't.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[dav-bol]

If you think Testosterone is the only Steroid Pro's use you're deluding yourself.

Secondly Testosterone has other side effects than liver toxicity when used continously including high blood pressure and decreased HPTA functions.

Gee, they use other stuff too?
I'll alert the media.


You said they wouldn't have a LIVER left.
I was debating that point. Please, if you want to have an intelligent debate try and stay on topic.
Otherwise, I won't bother.

High blood pressure stresses Kidney function BTW, and a depressed HPTA won't kill anyone.

[GMCtrk]

Big words you don't understand...Explain how Evolitionary Biology would tell me that..haha.

1.I've already explained PCT, Learn to read. With Post Cycle Therapy the loss of size is reduced dramatically. This is what Pro's do.

2.Source? Doctor record proving he had been using since 1996 nonstop?



Because if they didn't they would of died years ago from liver failure, Heart attack or other serious problems. A "Non stop cycle" would give the body no time to repair itself from the steroid cycle and seriously damage the endocrine system along with your internal organs. If Most Pro's were on a "never ending cycle" we would see them dying right and left...We don't.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I was holding back but now I will say, YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON!

"1.I've already explained PCT, Learn to read. With Post Cycle Therapy the loss of size is reduced dramatically. This is what Pro's do."

Once again, you show that you really know nothing. Pros natural testosterone production is SHOT, nothing, zilch. If they come off, it's GAME OVER, they would shrink up faster than a raisin in the desert sun. PCT is worthless for them, even if they do come off, and use whatever testosterone their body can produce, it will not, and cannot, as supported by evolutionary biology, maintain anywhere near the 260-300lb physiques these guys carry around. The body wants to be at 210-215 and it will shrink up until it reaches this size. They are all fighting evolution.

[Johnny Apollo]

I was holding back but now I will say, YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON!

"1.I've already explained PCT, Learn to read. With Post Cycle Therapy the loss of size is reduced dramatically. This is what Pro's do."

Once again, you show that you really know nothing. Pros natural testosterone production is SHOT, nothing, zilch. If they come off, it's GAME OVER, they would shrink up faster than a raisin in the desert sun. PCT is worthless for them, even if they do come off, and use whatever testosterone their body can produce, it will not, and cannot, as supported by evolutionary biology, maintain anywhere near the 260-300lb physiques these guys carry around. The body wants to be at 210-215 and it will shrink up until it reaches this size. They are all fighting evolution.

You're making absurd claims without explaing yourself or proving your claims.

1.Prove Pro's test production is "shot".

2.Prove if pro's come off of AAS they would not be able to produce testosterone.

3.Prove PCT for them is "Worthless".

4.Prove how any of this is supported by "Evolutionary biology". DO you even know what Evolutionary Biology is? haha

5.The body wants to be around 215lbs? Really? Is that why 160lbs is the average weight in America among adult males EVEN with most of them being overweight? For an average Adult male who is about 5'9" who does not exercise and is not overweight he would naturally be about 140lbs.


Moron....

[Johnny Apollo]

Gee, they use other stuff too?
I'll alert the media.


You said they wouldn't have a LIVER left.
I was debating that point. Please, if you want to have an intelligent debate try and stay on topic.
Otherwise, I won't bother.

High blood pressure stresses Kidney function BTW, and a depressed HPTA won't kill anyone.

You aren't making sense. Anabolic Steroids that cause liver toxicity cause liver damage. Excluding those that don't cause high liver toxicity such as Testosterone. But again...Pro's don't just use test so it's irrelevant.

[dav-bol]

I was holding back but now I will say, YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON!

LOL...

ANADROL is wicked toxic and is given to freeking CANCER patients for YEARS on end without interruption.
Very few have any liver toxicity and they are given doses no PRO would ever use unless they are insane.
(michalik for instance)

[GMCtrk]

You're making absurd claims without explaing yourself or proving your claims.

1.Prove Pro's test production is "shot".

2.Prove if pro's come off of AAS they would not be able to produce testosterone.

3.Prove PCT for them is "Worthless".

4.Prove how any of this is supported by "Evolutionary biology". DO you even know what Evolutionary Biology is? haha

5.The body wants to be around 215lbs? Really? Is that why 160lbs is the average weight in America among adult males EVEN with most of them being overweight? For an average Adult male who is about 5'9" who does not exercise and is not overweight he would naturally be about 140lbs.


Moron....

there's two options when a pro comes off, they can't produce any testosterone no matter how much HCG they shoot up, or they can produce. If they *can* produce natural levels of testosterone, you're insight proves my point even further. If the human body wants to settle into homeostasis @ 160lbs, and a juiced pro is coming down from 250lbs, what do you think is going to happen??? ......think about that

[Johnny Apollo]

LOL...

ANADROL is wicked toxic and is given to freeking CANCER patients for YEARS on end without interruption.
Very few have any liver toxicity and they are given doses no PRO would ever use unless they are insane.
(michalik for instance)

Provide a soruce showing cancer patients use anadrol for years without ever stopping and their doses are more than what a Pro would use then.

I expect you won't...

[dav-bol]

You aren't making sense.

 Anabolic Steroids that cause liver toxicity cause liver damage. Excluding those that don't cause high liver toxicity such as Testosterone. But again...Pro's don't just use test so it's irrelevant.

whatever....

[Johnny Apollo]

there's two options when a pro comes off, they can't produce any testosterone no matter how much HCG they shoot up, or they can produce. If they *can* produce natural levels of testosterone, you're insight proves my point even further. If the human body wants to settle into homeostasis @ 160lbs, and a juiced pro is coming down from 250lbs, what do you think is going to happen??? ......think about that

Ok First of all....I've never seen anyone's not able to produce ANY testosterone. If they couldn't produce ANY testosterone they would die. Testosterone is required to live.

Second of all How does my "insight" prove any of your point if they can produce natural test levels? When someone comes off of steroid use they CAN produce testosterone but at low levels until their body starts to produce more of it's own.

Third of all..."Homeostasis at 160lbs" makes absolutely no sense. Homeostasis is the equilbrium of the body's chemicals. Human bodyweight varies vastly depending on alot of things including diet and exercise. If  Pro comes off of AAS and is at 260lbs bodyweight and avoids any kind of PCT...They might loose 20-30lbs MAX in the first few months of comming off but as i've stated earlier..Muscle doesn't just vanish. As long as you continue training and eating right you will maintain your weight fairly well.

If you're up to 260lbs of solid muscle....It will take DECADES to get back down to 160lbs if it's even ever possible. You'd have to stop exercising completly and go on a 500calorie a day diet. But again....No one does this.

Fourth of all..You've avoided my questions and points in prior posts. Stop running around the questions you coward.

[GMCtrk]

this guy thinks ronnie comes off the sauce   must just be those amazing genetics ronnie has that keeps him around 290 when he takes he 3 months off after the O

[GMCtrk]

Ok First of all....I've never seen anyone's not able to produce ANY testosterone. If they couldn't produce ANY testosterone they would die. Testosterone is required to live.

Second of all How does my "insight" prove any of your point if they can produce natural test levels? When someone comes off of steroid use they CAN produce testosterone but at low levels until their body starts to produce more of it's own.

Third of all..."Homeostasis at 160lbs" makes absolutely no sense. Homeostasis is the equilbrium of the body's chemicals. Human bodyweight varies vastly depending on alot of things including diet and exercise. If  Pro comes off of AAS and is at 260lbs bodyweight and avoids any kind of PCT...They might loose 20-30lbs MAX in the first few months of comming off but as i've stated earlier..Muscle doesn't just vanish. As long as you continue training and eating right you will maintain your weight fairly well.

If you're up to 260lbs of solid muscle....It will take DECADES to get back down to 160lbs if it's even ever possible. You'd have to stop exercising completly and go on a 500calorie a day diet. But again....No one does this.

Fourth of all..You've avoided my questions and points in prior posts. Stop running around the questions you coward.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....BWAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAH ahahahahahaha  idiot of the century award