not much of a diffrence went 3 days no carbs then loaded carbs,3 days then loaded carbs , no carbs when I took these tonight. look about the same. weight is the same a little bigger/stronger. running just 400mg test cyp and 250 mg winstrol a week. just started HGH 2 days ago stacking it with T4 100mcg,albuteral so not working yet 4IU a day.