Multi vitamine when on juice?

[Mars]

Discuss.

[BIG_O]

Probably would be a good thing don't you think?

I use GNC Mega's on or off cycle and an array of other goodies.

[sarcasm]

Discuss.

milk thistle and evening primrose oil are two of the best natural supps to take while juicing.

[Mars]

I started this topic because i heard it better could be avoided to minimalize the stress on the liver.

[wannabehuge]

I started this topic because i heard it better could be avoided to minimalize the stress on the liver.

No kidding? That might be something to look into. I always thought a person should take more, by that I mean I take 2 multi vitamines a day when I'm on instead of just one.

[SLYY]

milk thistle and evening primrose oil are two of the best natural supps to take while juicing.

Actually, milk thistle is not good to take while on a cycle.  Most people did not know this (including myself) until Marble posted some info on it....here was his post....


there's persistant bullshit circulating stating that silymarin is bad to take along with orals because it increases the rate at which the liver metabolises the drug.  this is false.  either no effect or the opposite has been found with both alcohol and aspirin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3398694&dopt=Abstract

in vitro evidence suggests that silymarin actually inhibits drug metabolism, causing steroids to circulate in the body longer.  most steroid breakdown is done by the cyp3a4 enzyme, which is significantly(dose dependant, but at least a 65% slower rate) inhibited by silymarin:

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/11/1270

so why have users reported decreased steroid effects when using silymarin when the opposite should be true?

i found this study which has fascinating consequences:

http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/9/1399

a choice excerpt:

"SB decreased androgen-stimulated growth and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels in LNCaP cells (6). In this study, we further evaluated the effects of SM and SB on androgen action. We found that SM and SB down-regulate several androgen-regulated genes, including PSA, human glandular kallikrein (hK2) and an immunophilin, FKBP51, mainly by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR. More interestingly, we show that SM and SB can inhibit nuclear localization of the AR. Thus this report provides a novel mechanism by which SM and SB inhibit function of the AR."

or, in plain(er) english, when an androgen comes to a cell it passes through the cell membrane and binds to an androgen receptor in the cytoplasm.  upon binding, the receptor/androgen bundle float to the nucleus to tell which tell the cell to alter its behaviour, i.e. in this case, "synthesize more protein and grow larger".  different androgens probably relay different messages, which is why particular stacks seem to be more effective than others, despite all binding to the same receptor.

silymarin inhibits this either by preventing androgen/receptor bundles from ever reaching the nucleus, or by allowing the bundle to drift out of the nucleus easily once there.

i.e. all androgens, oral or injectable, will not work nearly as well.  avoid silymarin, and please spread the word.  feel free to repost this anywhere with proper acknowledgements to both marble and getbig. 

[muscle19]

IMO, i would rather use that then have problems, better safe than sorry, dont u think?


muscle

[freakfestMD]

Taking a multivitamin is a no-brainer, on or off juice.  I take 2 every day since I'm weighing about 235 right now.

[SLYY]

IMO, i would rather use that then have problems, better safe than sorry, dont u think?
muscle

Personally, I would take the milk thistle directly after the cycle as opposed to during it....

[muscle19]

i take it during just in case and i have seen no problems or less gains from it.


muscle

[Arnold jr]

I started this topic because i heard it better could be avoided to minimalize the stress on the liver.

It's true that everything you put into your body has to pass through the liver, but this does not mean that everything causes damage to your liver. A multi-vit is made up of things your body needs and desires for better over-all function, there are other things you should be worried about passing through your liver, such as alcohol.

[muscle19]

had too much of that this weekend! 


muscle

[DIVISION]

Discuss.

The only vitamins I take on AAS, are C + E.

I get most everything else from food.





DIV

[BIG_O]

Actually, milk thistle is not good to take while on a cycle.  Most people did not know this (including myself) until Marble posted some info on it....here was his post....

Actually bro not to split hairs because Marble and I had good conversations and PM'd each other often but I brought those findings to life on the old board.

That would have been sub 2003.

I do hope he comes back. I miss him.

[DIVISION]

Actually bro not to split hairs because Marble and I had good conversations and PM'd each other often but I brought those findings to life on the old board.

That would have been sub 2003.

I do hope he comes back. I miss him.

Marble has been dead to the board for a long time now.....

I've tried everything to get him to come back.

It appears he has found a new path.

He has turned his back on the "Dark Side".



DIV

[ARMZ]

Also important 'cause the bigger the muscle the more nutrients your muscle steals from your tendons, leaving them more prone to muscle/tendon tears.

[DIVISION]

LOLOL.... you should be taking multi vitamins anyway.. whether on juice or not they are very healthy for you....

Ease up, Mu-Mu.....

If you knew how many drugs some of these guys were using, you would understand why some don't want to further stress their liver.

Some vitamins don't digest in the presence of others, so I think a multi-vitamin is a bit overkill.  If you don't get enough of your core vitamins from the food you're eating, then what is it exactly that are eating.  That's the real question.  A shitty diet can't be compensated for by multi-vitamins.



DIV

[DIVISION]

Its not suppose to compensate, its suppose to supplement a diet... the gear can severly deplete nutrients and they need to be replenished and just to make sure you are getting everything you need you take a multi... if a multi vitamin is going to be tough on that persons liver then they are in the shitter anyways... its a MULTI VITAMIN... honestly if their liver is that stressed they need to stop EVERYTHING right away

Do you realize how many different vitamins and minerals are in a multi?

Most of it runs right through and you have to piss 30 min. later.......bright yellow....

Depending on what cycle you are on, and what thermogenics and other ancillary drugs you are using, you really might now want to burden your liver with a multi.





DIV

[Mars]

Thanks guys, so no animal paks loll.

[muscle19]

i have used animal paks and i think they work great. they made me feel great expecially before workouts


muscle

[Arnold jr]

Ease up, Mu-Mu.....

If you knew how many drugs some of these guys were using, you would understand why some don't want to further stress their liver.

Some vitamins don't digest in the presence of others, so I think a multi-vitamin is a bit overkill.  If you don't get enough of your core vitamins from the food you're eating, then what is it exactly that are eating.  That's the real question.  A shitty diet can't be compensated for by multi-vitamins.



DIV

I general I think DIV is correct, you should be getting the brunt of your nutrients from food itself and never rely on vitamins. The exception would be hard-core dieting in prep for comp. In this case getting all the necessary nutrients is extremely difficult to do without solid supplementation. One might ask, if this is the case when preparing for a show is it at all a healthy way to live. For one, I have never claimed that comp dieting is healthy, especially the final weeks, but just like when you plan out your cycles of AAS you need to have a plan in your diet to minimize the risk as much as you possibly can.