Author Topic: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago  (Read 6598 times)

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2015, 06:44:26 AM »
worst bullshit argument in the history of getbig.   shoot him 1-2 times cause they didn't know if a man who showed zero gun, might have one?  Shit.  Rock bottom time here lol. 

While I generally try and scroll past your comments regarding anything outside of the political realm, I'll respond to this

In any given situation, the totality of the circumstances are looked at. The courts have held many times that it is from the point of the officer at that time that we must review it. Not with 20/20 hindsight from the safety of our desks.

In this situation, the subject was not responding to direction, was armed with a knife and was possibly under the influence of a mind altering substance. There is a commonly taught 21' rule when dealing with subjects armed with a knife. The common school of thinking is that within 21 feet the subject becomes a potential deadly threat. Add the sudden movement just before the shots (It appears to me the movement came before the shots, but I could be wrong) and with the knowledge of action verses reaction, I believe it was not an unreasonable response. If he did produce a handgun during the spin, you would potentially lose the gun fight as the subject would fire first. The officer could have perceived the movement as beginning a charge at an officer as the movement was a sudden change in behavior.

It will be up to the jury to determine what was reasonable. They will have access to all the information. I was discussing this the other day with a co worker and the interesting thing for me will be how they separate the actual shooting, as in "Was deadly force authorized due to the circumstances?" if yes... how are they going to address the "Was 16 shots reasonable?". If not.. how do you go about sentencing for that.. IN other words, you had every right to use deadly force, however, you used too much?   


mr.turbo

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2015, 07:56:58 AM »
While I generally try and scroll past your comments regarding anything outside of the political realm, I'll respond to this

In any given situation, the totality of the circumstances are looked at. The courts have held many times that it is from the point of the officer at that time that we must review it. Not with 20/20 hindsight from the safety of our desks.

In this situation, the subject was not responding to direction, was armed with a knife and was possibly under the influence of a mind altering substance. There is a commonly taught 21' rule when dealing with subjects armed with a knife. The common school of thinking is that within 21 feet the subject becomes a potential deadly threat. Add the sudden movement just before the shots (It appears to me the movement came before the shots, but I could be wrong) and with the knowledge of action verses reaction, I believe it was not an unreasonable response. If he did produce a handgun during the spin, you would potentially lose the gun fight as the subject would fire first. The officer could have perceived the movement as beginning a charge at an officer as the movement was a sudden change in behavior.

It will be up to the jury to determine what was reasonable. They will have access to all the information. I was discussing this the other day with a co worker and the interesting thing for me will be how they separate the actual shooting, as in "Was deadly force authorized due to the circumstances?" if yes... how are they going to address the "Was 16 shots reasonable?". If not.. how do you go about sentencing for that.. IN other words, you had every right to use deadly force, however, you used too much?  



you have to complete some impressive mental gymnastics to believe he spun around before he was shot but I gather that's your specialty?
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Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2015, 10:33:45 AM »
you have to complete some impressive mental gymnastics to believe he spun around before he was shot but I gather that's your specialty?

I'll look at it again

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2015, 11:11:12 AM »
The video I see doesn't have sound of the shots. Do you have a link to a different one?

mr.turbo

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2015, 12:12:57 PM »
The video I see doesn't have sound of the shots. Do you have a link to a different one?

ok...so I looked at this video again trying to imagine your scenario. ( ignoring the $5mil payout, murder charge etc.)

macdonald spins away (360) from the officer then falls facing toward him again.

your argument is that the first shots came after the spin so let me know how you can explain the shots in the back of the body (first shots according to you) as self defense.... ???

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illuminati

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2015, 01:04:37 PM »
you have to complete some impressive mental gymnastics to believe he spun around before he was shot but I gather that's your specialty?









His Speciality is This In Regards Cops.

See No Evil.
Hear No Evil.
Speak No Evil..

He Knows The True State of all Things Police
Just has a tough time admitting it.

He does sometimes when the Facts & Evidence
Are overwhelming.
 ;)

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2015, 01:12:33 PM »
I think there were two bullet entry wounds in the back. This could have come during the spin, the sudden movement triggering the response to shoot. If I indicated the officer didn't fire until the spin was complete then that was not the intention. But the officer could have fired prior to the movement, which should be easy to determine with audio from the officer that fired the shots dash cam. I'm not married to the idea at this point that it was after the sudden movement and it could be that the initial shots caused it. If that is the case, I think it would be hard to prove the shooting was justified. Regardless of that, there is also the issue of creating a lethal situation by an officer. When the officer has information the subject is armed with a knife, which I am making an assumption that at that point the information should have been available, and you pull up in your unit, and exit with no cover between you and the subject, you kind of create a deadly force potential that didn't have to be.       

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2015, 01:13:46 PM »








His Speciality is This In Regards Cops.

See No Evil.
Hear No Evil.
Speak No Evil..

He Knows The True State of all Things Police
Just has a tough time admitting it.

He does sometimes when the Facts & Evidence
Are overwhelming.
 ;)

Wished I had seen this before I posted.. I would have changed my response from "Yeah, I could be wrong" to "No, I'm always right" so you wouldn't look so silly  ;D

illuminati

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2015, 03:28:00 PM »
Wished I had seen this before I posted.. I would have changed my response from "Yeah, I could be wrong" to "No, I'm always right" so you wouldn't look so silly  ;D









Hello Agnostic,
Pleased you could join us & offer your expert & unquestionably honest,
Clear & soundly unbiased correct views.
So we as mere people are corrected of our ill perceived opinions of the
Saintly well adjusted & infallible police.
How dare we even consider they would lie, cheat, fabricate or commit murder.

Thanks you.
We all are indebted & saved.



SF1900

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2015, 03:34:35 PM »








Hello Agnostic,
Pleased you could join us & offer your expert & unquestionably honest,
Clear & soundly unbiased correct views.
So we as mere people are corrected of our ill perceived opinions of the
Saintly well adjusted & infallible police.
How dare we even consider they would lie, cheat, fabricate or commit murder.

Thanks you.
We all are indebted & saved.




When it comes to Agnostic, he will hardly ever go against the police force. He thinks cops are, as you said, infallible. He most likely believes that a cop would never lie, cheat, or fabricate anything. I would put money that the MAJORITY of cops are crooked, they just don't get caught due to the cult-like nature of the police force.....no one talks.
X

mr.turbo

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2015, 03:36:50 PM »
I think there were two bullet entry wounds in the back. This could have come during the spin, the sudden movement triggering the response to shoot. If I indicated the officer didn't fire until the spin was complete then that was not the intention. But the officer could have fired prior to the movement, which should be easy to determine with audio from the officer that fired the shots dash cam. I'm not married to the idea at this point that it was after the sudden movement and it could be that the initial shots caused it. If that is the case, I think it would be hard to prove the shooting was justified. Regardless of that, there is also the issue of creating a lethal situation by an officer. When the officer has information the subject is armed with a knife, which I am making an assumption that at that point the information should have been available, and you pull up in your unit, and exit with no cover between you and the subject, you kind of create a deadly force potential that didn't have to be.       


It's possible that he was acting in self defense but the scenario you outlined doesn't work.

basically, if that's the conclusion you are trying to reverse engineer you've got a lot more work to do...look forward to seeing what you come up with.  ::)
"

illuminati

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2015, 03:47:02 PM »
When it comes to Agnostic, he will hardly ever go against the police force. He thinks cops are, as you said, infallible. He most likely believes that a cop would never lie, cheat, or fabricate anything. I would put money that the MAJORITY of cops are crooked, they just don't get caught due to the cult-like nature of the police force.....no one talks.







He will be here in no time to correct your profoundly mistaken views on Cops.


Oh & mine. As I agree with your views in your post.
 ;)

SF1900

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2015, 03:51:38 PM »






He will be here in no time to correct your profoundly mistaken views on Cops.


Oh & mine. As I agree with your views in your post.
 ;)

This is how Agnostic sees all cops.  :D

X

illuminati

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2015, 03:57:47 PM »
This is how Agnostic sees all cops.  :D









Ha ha ha.  Very very likely.


He dislikes me for my constant below quote.

See No Evil,
Hear No Evil,
Speak No Evil.
When it comes to Cops.
We all Need To Remember This.
When Thinking Of Questioning Police Actions. 

youandme

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2015, 04:31:04 PM »
what was removed?  The "lunge" that only the shooter witnessed?

No, nothing was removed.  The State said that the youtube video that is being used by protestors and media is edited.  Edited by pausing the shots fired noises and then having the officer take a 7 second break from shooting then continuing to shot.  Making the shooting appear (sound) like the cop had more malice. 

absfabs

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2015, 05:34:35 PM »
Chicago cops accused of deleting Burger King surveillance video footage of the Laquan McDonald shooting by police.  What the police who deleted the footage didn't know was that there was another surveillance camera in the Burger King manager's office recording what they were doing.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/photos-reveal-police-deleting-surveillance-footage-murderous-cop/

why doesn't obama do an executive order to send these cops to quantanimo bay

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2015, 06:46:42 AM »

It's possible that he was acting in self defense but the scenario you outlined doesn't work.

basically, if that's the conclusion you are trying to reverse engineer you've got a lot more work to do...look forward to seeing what you come up with.  ::)

Yes, it is possible, it is also possible he wasn't. Obviously with the charge pending, there was enough PC to believe he wasn't.

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2015, 06:47:35 AM »
When it comes to Agnostic, he will hardly ever go against the police force. He thinks cops are, as you said, infallible. He most likely believes that a cop would never lie, cheat, or fabricate anything. I would put money that the MAJORITY of cops are crooked, they just don't get caught due to the cult-like nature of the police force.....no one talks.

Thank you for that summary of what I think.. Doesn't matter how far off you are.. just that you participated in the discussion

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2015, 06:48:31 AM »






Ha ha ha.  Very very likely.


He dislikes me for my constant below quote.

See No Evil,
Hear No Evil,
Speak No Evil.
When it comes to Cops.
We all Need To Remember This.
When Thinking Of Questioning Police Actions. 


Wrong again? Isn't that exhausting? I don't dislike you at all

mr.turbo

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2015, 11:14:55 AM »
Yes, it is possible, it is also possible he wasn't. Obviously with the charge pending, there was enough PC to believe he wasn't.


I don't understand how you can say it's possible he wasn't then contradict that statement by stating that judgement is based on PC.

Unfortunately you cannot say both the same time.

looking forward to your final answer on this.
"

Agnostic007

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2015, 11:52:46 AM »
I don't understand how you can say it's possible he wasn't then contradict that statement by stating that judgement is based on PC.

Unfortunately you cannot say both the same time.

looking forward to your final answer on this.

YOu said..."It's possible he was acting in self defense but your scenario doesn't help"  I said "Yes it is possible (he was acting in self defense) but it's also possible he wasn't (acting in self defense) The pending charges seem to indicate there is enough probable cause to believe he wasn't (acting in self defense)


So it is really not contradicting as far as I can tell...

illuminati

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2015, 01:19:40 PM »
Wrong again? Isn't that exhausting? I don't dislike you at all







I am very happy to hear that.. ;)

We just have very different views & ways of looking at things.
And clearly very different experiences with cops.


mr.turbo

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Re: cops caught on video deleting Burger King footage in Chicago
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2015, 01:25:10 PM »
YOu said..."It's possible he was acting in self defense but your scenario doesn't help"  I said "Yes it is possible (he was acting in self defense) but it's also possible he wasn't (acting in self defense) The pending charges seem to indicate there is enough probable cause to believe he wasn't (acting in self defense)


So it is really not contradicting as far as I can tell...

I didn't understand the PC I thought you were suggesting political correctness.

extremely relieved to hear this
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