Obama bitch slapped yet again.

[TuHolmes]

Try again spin boy. Now answer the question.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/its-official-obamas-deficits-in-6-years-more-than-all-prior-us-presidents-combined/

You do realize that one of you is talking dollars and the other percentages.

So you are both actually correct.

However, let me ask you this in return.

Who was the last President who handle the country's finances like you would handle yours?

[The Ugly]

You do realize that one of you is talking dollars and the other percentages.

So you are both actually correct.

Didn't Bill manage our budget pretty well?

[TuHolmes]

Didn't Bill manage our budget pretty well?

He had some years of budget surplus, but overall he also increased the debt.

Debt isn't necessarily always bad either.

I mean, most people here have debt of some sort. Even Coach.

The question is whether it's more debt than can be paid back.

Realistically speaking, even the current debt of the US is completely capable of being paid back if the US wants to. They just decide to not.

There will come a time when that debt will come due of course, and that will be a day of reckoning, but in general, some debt is fine.

I think that the debt under Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton was totally manageable and it was only during the Bush 2 and Obama admins that the debt started to actually get extremely out of hand. Too many wars and what not.

[LurkerNoMore]

Let's reverse this question to everyone that agrees (not saying you do) with Obamas policies. Would you personally handle your business or Personal finances the same way Obama handles this countries finances?

Seeing what a shit hole this country was in when he took office and seeing where the DOW, economy, housing market, unemployment rate, def.reduction, etc.. are all sitting at now in a much better place, then I certainly would allow him over the others to handle finances. 

You, I wouldn't allow to handle waffle batter down at the Ihop.

[Coach is Back!]

I am trying to have a reasonable debate with you, no trolling. You are jumping from topic to topic without teasing them apart.

Let's just stick with the finances, you are saying Obama is really bad for the US economically, let's look at the facts (stats) to see if you are correct.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

The first graph shows UE rate by year, note the sharp increase beginning in 08, the height of the great recession, at least the fallout of it's effects were starting to be realized.

UE jumped to roughly 10% in 09-10 and has decreased quite rapidly, currently sitting near all time lows in the last twenty years (approaching 99-00 rates).

So if you are crediting Obama with the economy, it appears his policies (or sheer coincidence) has reduce UE faster then any predictions, Romney, said it would take two terms, Obama did what Romney claimed in 2 years.

Compared to the other G7 nations, another indicator of economic policy (US is atypical, it's way ahead), shows the US recovered the best (save Germany, that;s another complicated issue) as in, the figures by which recession is claimed, also show great recovery, it can't be both can it Joe? if so, explain how to me?


From the link
"The National Bureau of Economic Research declared the official start date of the recession to be December 2007 and the end date to be June 2009. For the purposes of our analysis—in which quarterly data will be used rather than monthly data—the fourth quarter of 2007 will be used as the start date and the second quarter of 2009 will be used as end date".

Obama took office at the PEAK of the GREAT recession.

Productivity is increasing (it did so during the recession however, likely the result of things not effected as much be productivity, ie automation), this automation will continue to reduce participation rate.


On to the deficit (this is different from debt, it is more closely related to the policies of the president.), sometimes deficits are good, ever need cash flow in a small business? Maybe to invest in marketing, which will cause short term money loss with high potential return. So you go in debt and a deficit, your losing money, then the marketing works, your deficits turn to surplus, ahh profits.. you still have debt to pay, this can turn that surplus to a deficit and so on...

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

It peaked recently during 09-11, which makes sense, in attempt to recover from the great recession, you don't hold back money (the gov is the biggest mover in the economy, it's idiotic in fact), however, it is now dropping at record pace, it has slowed recently, but there was a significant drop.

What evidence do you have Joe?

Fair enough and I'll make this quick. The one thing that you failed to mention was the increase in the labor participation rate that the 5.0 number doesn't reflect http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 It's basically what drives our economy along with private business, right? (of course there are other factors but these are the main one's) So if people are not working and generally giving up on looking how can the economy see a rapid growth? Is the economy growing, yes but at the slowest this country has seen in the last 70 + years. That's not good especially in this day and age.

Lets get on to spending. On the poli board I started the thread "CBO says" it zero replys, fine. But within the thread that some may take as a bias article was a link to the CBO's monthly budget review https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/51048-MBR.pdf where it states taxes and spending are up dramatically http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/cbo-taxes-spending-deficit-all-first-2-months-fy2016

Now lets take the "common" "sense" (for The Ugly side of this. It doesn't matter if this is personal finances, business or the country. You don't have to have a degree in macroeconomics to know that if you spend more than you take in you'll eventually go bankrupt. Earlier in Obama's presidency the country had its credit rating downgraded for I believe for the first time. Obama's economic policy is to tax and spend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_Barack_Obama

So now, with all of the said and not even touching on the rapidly increase of the deficit, borrowing and printing of money how is the economy doing for this country as a whole?

[Coach is Back!]

Seeing what a shit hole this country was in when he took office and seeing where the DOW, economy, housing market, unemployment rate, def.reduction, etc.. are all sitting at now in a much better place, then I certainly would allow him over the others to handle finances. 

You, I wouldn't allow to handle waffle batter down at the Ihop.

But that wasn't the question. Would you handle your personal or if you had a business it's finances in the same way, meaning spending money you didn't have, borrowing money to pay off existing debts and having that snowball like it doing now and the reason for the exorbitant deficit or would you keep debt down to have more freedom to invest?

[Coach is Back!]

Didn't Bill manage our budget pretty well?

Bill Clinton had the advantage of the dot com era, like Bush (about the last three months) his economy started going down the shitter as well.

[Coach is Back!]

Seeing what a shit hole this country was in when he took office and seeing where the DOW, economy, housing market, unemployment rate, def.reduction, etc.. are all sitting at now in a much better place, then I certainly would allow him over the others to handle finances. 

You, I wouldn't allow to handle waffle batter down at the Ihop.

Dude, it been over seven years now, you can't keep blaming Bush. Obama had his chance and blew it.

[The Ugly]

Bill Clinton had the advantage of the dot com era, like Bush (about the last three months) his economy started going down the shitter as well.

Doesn't every prosperous president benefit from some unforeseen market explosion?

[Coach is Back!]

Doesn't every prosperous president benefit from some unforeseen market explosion?

I'm sure but I can't recall anything since like that era. Can you?

[The Ugly]

I'm sure but I can't recall anything since like that era. Can you?

Nope.

[TuHolmes]

I'm sure but I can't recall anything since like that era. Can you?

Not since, but the 80s had Wall Street. 60s and 70s had war... 50s had Automobile and Manufacturing... as did the 20s and so on.

Everyone gets something.

Nothing since 2000 comes close though.

[Necrosis]

Fair enough and I'll make this quick. The one thing that you failed to mention was the increase in the labor participation rate that the 5.0 number doesn't reflect http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 It's basically what drives our economy along with private business, right? (of course there are other factors but these are the main one's) So if people are not working and generally giving up on looking how can the economy see a rapid growth? Is the economy growing, yes but at the slowest this country has seen in the last 70 + years. That's not good especially in this day and age.

The rate has been steadily decreasing, it needs to be taken together in context with UE, automation and an aging population is driving participation rates down, while the UE steadily decreases, this is in line with this thinking. Even in 2005 it was decreasing, it will continue to as humans are replaced.

Lets get on to spending. On the poli board I started the thread "CBO says" it zero replys, fine. But within the thread that some may take as a bias article was a link to the CBO's monthly budget review https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/reports/51048-MBR.pdf where it states taxes and spending are up dramatically http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/cbo-taxes-spending-deficit-all-first-2-months-fy2016





Now lets take the "common" "sense" (for The Ugly side of this. It doesn't matter if this is personal finances, business or the country. You don't have to have a degree in macroeconomics to know that if you spend more than you take in you'll eventually go bankrupt. Earlier in Obama's pre
sidency the country had its credit rating downgraded for I believe for the first time. Obama's economic policy is to tax and spend
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_Barack_Obama

So now, with all of the said and not even touching on the rapidly increase of the deficit, borrowing and printing of money how is the economy doing for this country as a whole?

You can make more money by spending more money, that's how you make money, you make your money work for you. If he is investing in infrastructure etc, then spending will likely reap threefold benefits, thus short term debt/deficits can create long term boom. You have to invest, they need to spend, but spend on things that generate jobs, money etc.. saving money does fuck all really.

His deficits have been rapidly decreasing as the first link showed, it increased at first, but that was because of the great recession, you can't just say the numbers without mentioning the worst recession in history.

[LurkerNoMore]

Dude, it been over seven years now, you can't keep blaming Bush. Obama had his chance and blew it.

Hey dumb ass.  I didn't even mention Bush in my post.  But if spending money brought me out of the piss hole that someone else left me in, then I certainly would.

Your Obama Derangement Syndrome is laughable.

[TuHolmes]

Bill Clinton had the advantage of the dot com era, like Bush (about the last three months) his economy started going down the shitter as well.

Bush had the housing bubble.

He had .com not long enough for anything.

[Coach is Back!]

Hey dumb ass.  I didn't even mention Bush in my post.  But if spending money brought me out of the piss hole that someone else left me in, then I certainly would.

Your Obama Derangement Syndrome is laughable.

So you would borrow and spend? Got it. This isn't all Obama, this is the economic mentality of the left as well.

[TuHolmes]

So you would borrow and spend? Got it. This isn't all Obama, this is the economic mentality of the left as well.

You ever get a business loan to improve your business?

Buy new equipment?

That's borrow and spend right?

[King Shizzo]

So you would borrow and spend? Got it. This isn't all Obama, this is the economic mentality of the left as well.

What else do people do with money? You don't borrow to save.

[Coach is Back!]

You ever get a business loan to improve your business?

Buy new equipment?

That's borrow and spend right?

Me personally, no. We own everything out right from flooring to lighting. But what I'm getting at is borrowing over and over again to pay existing debt. A loan to pay a loan doesn't make sense and eventually leads to financial disaster.

[TuHolmes]

Me personally, no. We own everything out right from flooring to lighting. But what I'm getting at is borrowing over and over again to pay existing debt. A loan to pay a loan doesn't make sense and eventually leads to financial disaster.

I don't disagree that borrowing to pay debt is not responsible from a personal finance perspective, however it seems to be more common in government and has been done for almost 100 years.

[King Shizzo]

I don't disagree that borrowing to pay debt is not responsible from a personal finance perspective, however it seems to be more common in government and has been done for almost 100 years.

Fantastic post.

[240 is Back]

So you would borrow and spend? Got it. This isn't all Obama, this is the economic mentality of the left as well.

I showed data that reagan borrowed at a rate more than DOUBLE that of obama.

Was reagan subscribing to a liberal mentality also?

[Coach is Back!]

I showed data that reagan borrowed at a rate more than DOUBLE that of obama.

Was reagan subscribing to a liberal mentality also?

http://www.heritage.org/about/press/how-great-was-ronald-reagan-40th-president-place-in-history

Borrow and spend all you want just make sure you can pay the debt. Obama and his inept administration are making sure we can't pay shit back. Enough with your Strawman arguments.

[240 is Back]

http://www.heritage.org/about/press/how-great-was-ronald-reagan-40th-president-place-in-history

Borrow and spend all you want just make sure you can pay the debt. Obama and his inept administration are making sure we can't pay shit back. Enough with your Strawman arguments.

an article that is titled "how great was reagan!" is supposed to change my mind?   Sure, heritage sounds unbiased and all.

is your position, "Reagan borrowed at a much higher rate, but he had good reasons"?     Is that what you're trying to explain with that mishmash of links and obama attacks?

[Coach is Back!]

an article that is titled "how great was reagan!" is supposed to change my mind?   Sure, heritage sounds unbiased and all.

is your position, "Reagan borrowed at a much higher rate, but he had good reasons"?     Is that what you're trying to explain with that mishmash of links and obama attacks?

Yeah, sure. Why do you suppose Reagans economy was successful while Obamas was damn near if not a total failure? One year left with Obama and it's taken this long and the economy has barely moved and when it does move its slow? At the end of Obamas reign he will in fact us in a REAL mess.

http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2015/6/barack-obama-sluggish-economy