Oppressed white farmers occupy federal building in Oregon

[mr.turbo]

Ok.. So let's say that's accurate. Which I'm not inclined to agree with. Considering the book you are posting about was printed in 2008, about 20 years after the term was first created by politicians, but again, let's go with your faulty premise.


The weapons that were considered "Assault Weapons" were fully automatic machine guns. M-16. AK-47s. All Military Fully-Automatic weapons.

The AR-15 is not a fully automatic weapon at all and there is already a ban on fully automatic weapons.

So the terminology is used completely improperly which is the point I'm making in the first place.

it's not my premise. if you have some evidence that it was a term manufactured by politicians I suggest you bring it to the attention of Gun Digest:

http://www.gundigest.com/about-us

they should know the truth given that they claim to be the world foremost authority on guns. They say the term comes out of industry. I'm sure they will be happy to have this new information and revise the books they've been publishing.

I would encourage you to look into this matter a bit more and remain open to new information.

[mr.turbo]

From your link turbo

History of terminology
Prior to its use in U.S. firearms laws, the term "assault weapon" was limited to naming certain military weapons, for example, the Rifleman's Assault Weapon, a grenade launcher developed in 1977 for use with the M16 assault rifle,[19] or the Shoulder-launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon, a rocket launcher introduced in 1984.[20]

In April 1985, Art Agnos introduced in the California State Assembly a bill to ban semi-automatic "assault firearms" capable of using detachable magazines of 20 rounds or more.[21][22] Speaking to the Assembly Public Safety Committee, Agnos said, "The only use for assault weapons is to shoot people."[21] The measure did not pass when it came up for a vote.[22]

In 2013, The Washington Post wrote of the term: "Many attribute its popularization to a 1988 paper written by gun-control activist and Violence Policy Center founder Josh Sugarmann and the later reaction to the Cleveland School massacre in Stockton, California, in January 1989."[5] Sugarmann had written:

you see here this indicates the term may have been "popularized" by an anti-gun activist. Nothing there about invention big diff.

[tonymctones]

“Assault rifle” was first used to describe a military weapon, the Sturmgewehr, produced by the Germans in World War II. The Sturmgewehr — literally “storm rifle,” a name chosen by Adolf Hitler — was capable of both semiautomatic and full-automatic fire. It was the progenitor for many modern military rifles.

From the same New York Times article you quoted...wonder why you skipped this part?

[mr.turbo]

“Assault rifle” was first used to describe a military weapon, the Sturmgewehr, produced by the Germans in World War II. The Sturmgewehr — literally “storm rifle,” a name chosen by Adolf Hitler — was capable of both semiautomatic and full-automatic fire. It was the progenitor for many modern military rifles.

From the same New York Times article you quoted...wonder why you skipped this part?

I believe were discussing the term "assault weapon".  You quoted comments on "assault rifle". once again big diff!

[tonymctones]

I believe were discussing the term "assault weapon".  You quoted comments on "assault rifle". once again big diff!

HAHAH ok well then it looks like the first instance is from 1985 when a democratic congressman proposed banning "assault weapons" prior to that in 1984 guns and ammo used the term "assault firearms" which apparently is completely different

[Kazan]

I believe were discussing the term "assault weapon".  You quoted comments on "assault rifle". once again big diff!

Assault: a physical attack
Weapon: a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

Yes you are correct and assault weapon could be rock or hammer

[mr.turbo]

HAHAH ok well then it looks like the first instance is from 1985 when a democratic congressman proposed banning "assault weapons" prior to that in 1984 guns and ammo used the term "assault firearms" which apparently is completely different

where do you get this information?

It's pretty clearly an industry term that has fallen out of fashion because it's linked to unpopular control measures. But that's just what the guys who wrote the book about it say. It could be wrong but so far you have not brought forward any better sources.

[mr.turbo]

Assault: a physical attack
Weapon: a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.

Yes you are correct and assault weapon could be rock or hammer

it's a broad term but really the claim that it's meaningless doesn't apply to folks that don't want to go to jail. Rocks don't show up on banned lists of "assault weapons". Like I said before let us know what the judge says about this defence. I wish you luck!

Here's the truth;

The industry made up the terminology to make money off a new set of products.

Now that they're banned, they can't make money off the label so the label is "meaningless" (according to gun lobbyists).

[Kazan]

it's a broad term but really the claim that it's meaningless doesn't apply to folks that don't want to go to jail. Rocks don't show up on banned lists of "assault weapons". Like I said before let us know what the judge says about this defence. I wish you luck!

Here's the truth;

The industry made up the terminology to make money off a new set of products.

Now that they're banned, they can't make money off the label so the label is "meaningless" (according to gun lobbyists).

The point I am trying to make is, calling something an assault weapon is ridiculous. Just because some jackass politico comes up with a list of things like and adjustable stock or pistol grip does not make the weapon any more or less lethal than a weapon of the same caliber that doesn't have it.

[mr.turbo]

The point I am trying to make is, calling something an assault weapon is ridiculous. Just because some jackass politico comes up with a list of things like and adjustable stock or pistol grip does not make the weapon any more or less lethal than a weapon of the same caliber that doesn't have it.

you're probably right. one would have to look at the law to see if that's what's actually claimed. I'm quickly becoming an expert on this. 

[TuHolmes]

The point I am trying to make is, calling something an assault weapon is ridiculous. Just because some jackass politico comes up with a list of things like and adjustable stock or pistol grip does not make the weapon any more or less lethal than a weapon of the same caliber that doesn't have it.

Don't try to use reality here. It doesn't go far.

Mr. Turbo is now an "expert" on firearms.

 

[mr.turbo]

Don't try to use reality here. It doesn't go far.

Mr. Turbo is now an "expert" on firearms.

 

judging by this conversation the bar is set pretty low 

for the record, "becoming an expert"

If you're gonna demand precision with language you should employ these principles yourself!

 

[TuHolmes]

judging by this conversation the bar is set pretty low 

for the record, "becoming an expert"

If you're gonna demand precision with language you should employ these principles yourself!

 

I would rather have this conversation with someone who wants gun control that has at least touched a gun.

You're right. The bar is exceptionally low.

[mr.turbo]

I would rather have this conversation with someone who wants gun control that has at least touched a gun.

You're right. The bar is exceptionally low.

I don't have much to say about gun control except that to make a convincing argument you'd have to prove the measures reduce the ridiculous gun related death rates in the US. It would be nice to know how they back it up. That's the more interesting conversation because when you look at the domestic terror issue, as bad as it is, it's really nothing close to gun related deaths. The US is way out there with a bunch of third world countries statistically.

[tonymctones]

where do you get this information?

It's pretty clearly an industry term that has fallen out of fashion because it's linked to unpopular control measures. But that's just what the guys who wrote the book about it say. It could be wrong but so far you have not brought forward any better sources.

Haha are you kidding me kid? I got that from your own link dumb ass

[mr.turbo]

Haha are you kidding me kid? I got that from your own link dumb ass

ok here's a question for you. 

If the term originated with this guy as he was making a speech about his gun ban law in 1985. 

How did anyone know what he was talking about? it would have been the first time anyone had heard the term.

take your time with this one tommy...let me know what you come up with.

[TuHolmes]

ok here's a question for you. 

If the term originated with this guy as he was making a speech about his gun ban law in 1985. 

How did anyone know what he was talking about? it would have been the first time anyone had heard the term.

take your time with this one tommy...let me know what you come up with.

That's how lexicon and jargon work.

People know what terms like ratchet and twerk mean. Someone made them up once and the words took over. Eventually becoming common place.

Both of those words came after 1985 and yet we know what they mean. That's how language works. For better or worse.

[tonymctones]

ok here's a question for you. 

If the term originated with this guy as he was making a speech about his gun ban law in 1985. 

How did anyone know what he was talking about? it would have been the first time anyone had heard the term.

take your time with this one tommy...let me know what you come up with.

Haha seriously kid, how fucking old are you?

When you propose banning something you have to define what you're banning....The reason people knew what he was talking about is b/c the legislation spelled it out you fucktard

[calfzilla]

Sometimes I wish they would just ban all guns so I could just sit back and watch the carnage and say "told you so".

[TuHolmes]

Sometimes I wish they would just ban all guns so I could just sit back and watch the carnage and say "told you so".

Well. They can ban everyone else's. I'm keeping mine.

[mr.turbo]

Haha seriously kid, how fucking old are you?

When you propose banning something you have to define what you're banning....The reason people knew what he was talking about is b/c the legislation spelled it out you fucktard

it's a stretch to accept that a state assembly hearing is the venue to coin new terminology for weapons.

This doesn't pass the sniff test. We must use common sense.

Anyway, the link you're citing clearly states the term was used in the 70's to describe military weaponry. I suggest you have another look at it, again!

[mr.turbo]

The Rifleman's Assault Weapon (also called RAW) is a close-support rocket-propelled grenade developed around 1977 and put into limited service by the United States Marine Corps in the 1990s.[1] It was developed in response to a military requirement for a multi-purpose close support weapon. The RAW's rocket-propelled spherical munition is fired from an M16 rifle and is capable of blowing holes through masonry walls and disabling light armored vehicles. Some have nicknamed the Rifleman's Assault Weapon the "softball from Hell".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifleman%27s_Assault_Weapon

[mr.turbo]

The Shoulder-Launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon (SMAW) is a shoulder-launched rocket weapon with the primary function of being a portable assault weapon (e.g. bunker buster) and a secondary anti-armor rocket launcher. It was introduced to the United States armed forces in 1984.[1] It has a maximum range of 500 metres (550 yd) against a tank-sized target.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder-launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon

[chaos]

20 pages

[tonymctones]

it's a stretch to accept that a state assembly hearing is the venue to coin new terminology for weapons.

This doesn't pass the sniff test. We must use common sense.

Anyway, the link you're citing clearly states the term was used in the 70's to describe military weaponry. I suggest you have another look at it, again!

Not a stretch as it was a piece of legislation...and the link you posted says it was originally used to describe a weapon during WW2...

Anyways im done with trying to educate stupid people