What's your rationale for taking insulin without gh? Stimulate appetite?
Yeah, and I kind of like going slightly hypo and then eating. Insulin doesn't do much for me as far as muscle gains but it's good for gaining quick weight, if you want to for whatever reason.
Definitely, but unless you're a diabetic, your body will produce enough insulin on its own to shuttle the nutrients into the muscles....no exogenous insulin needed. I know Milos is a big proponent of this theory but I'm skeptical that insulin is the rate-limiting factor for muscle growth in a non-diabetic bodybuilder. I think it could allow for increased size/weight by allowing the muscles to uptake and store more glycogen, but little in the way of additional contractile muscle tissue.
I actually asked Milos here if he could explain why insulin works, but his reply was just, "exogenous insulin has numerous benefits". Sure sure, but explain what it does exactly, the mechanism? I don't think Milos could really explain it if debating someone who has done a bit of reading.
Personally I suspect it can aid in muscle growth, maybe by igf-1 boosting, reduced catabolism etc, but as you know you don't need a lot of insulin to maximally stimulate protein synthesis. You could also speculate that if you jack up one group of hormones involved in muscle growth then it would make sense to increase all hormones involved in this chain. Not only insulin but things like T3 too which many use to boost the effects of AAS, GH and insulin.
Look at it this way. Say you consume 50 grams of carbs. OK, fine, you go about your business no problem. Now say you consume 50 grams of carbs and then inject but this time you inject 50 units of humalog. You will find yourself going hypo within an hour. What happened to those carbs. Their gone. They been shuttled away. The humalof was are able to cram more nutrients much faster than your own body.
Why does this matter? Well, according to Milos, if you cram far more nutrients at a time when you most need it (while working out and while nutrient rich blood is being pumped to the muscles) it will create a much more powerful anabolic effect. When not working out you still need to ingest far more nutrients as a bodybuilder than the average Joe. Exogenous insulin enables you to pack more nutrients much faster than your own body can.
My understanding is that one of the main effects of insulin is actually a reduction in glucose production by the liver. This is mainly how it lowers BG, not necessarily because all those carbs were crammed into your muscles when you go hypo. If I'm wrong someone correct me. I'm not aware of any studies showing whether exogenous insulin increases glycogen or rate of glycogen resynthesis in healthy subjects. If it does, by how much? Would be interesting to know. The pumps you get could be partly due to general water retention too.
Why do you bother with this moron? He's just making that shit up with his brother not knowing that there are actually people on this board that use more insulin than that and easily go over five grams a week at the amateur level.
His experience with his brother is probably very real. But just because his brother has hypo episodes doesn't mean otherwise healthy bodybuilders can't handle more than that. He simply hasn't seen it done so it sounds crazy to him. Dude I buy my insulin from is a diabetic and takes Lantus at 14iu in the morning and 16iu at night with Humalog with meals as needed, depending on size of meals. I can take 50iu of Lantus and way more Humalog than him yet not eat any crazy amounts of food.
