coming off TRT, protocol advice?

[Thong Maniac]

i have an rx from an anti aging group, so all meds are legit but their instructions seem odd.

my last injection of T was on monday, so about 4 days ago. 50mg of cyp subq.

Do i begin HCG now? i was planning on 500iu EOD from tomorrow, until I am out.
after the hcg, begin the clomid at 50mg and Nolva at 20mg EOD (that is what the rx calls for).

I also have adex on hand if needed

scallys protocol seems to be close, but its ED and I cant tell when to start HCG, last shot of test, etc etc.

looking to get started tomorrow, help a brotha out. thanks jiz and others

[triggerhappy]

Google the proper Dr scally protocol and run that if you have enough to do so.

If not do what your dr has recommended

Any reason for coming of trt. Most are on it for a reason 

[Thong Maniac]

Google the proper Dr scally protocol and run that if you have enough to do so.

If not do what your dr has recommended

Any reason for coming of trt. Most are on it for a reason 

had low test and i suspect odd hormone levels as a kid, flabby gyno, over all just soft. trt was a lifestyle choice. but now, i feel like im a slave to it. i want to see if i can function without it. if i need to get back on, then so be it.

[Thong Maniac]

i looked up dr. scallys and heavyirons but im confused on when to introduce the meds?

its been 4 days since last T pin, somim going to start today at 500iu EOD, but when do i start taking the clomid and nolva?

also, i suppose i should also keep taking adex while i run thr hcg solo, so i dont get gyno symptoms?

[theworm]

i looked up dr. scallys and heavyirons but im confused on when to introduce the meds?

its been 4 days since last T pin, somim going to start today at 500iu EOD, but when do i start taking the clomid and nolva?

also, i suppose i should also keep taking adex while i run thr hcg solo, so i dont get gyno symptoms?

I think he says the study started the day after the last injection, but in forums he states it should be started 2 weeks after the last injection.   

I split the difference and started at day 10 with excellent results

[Thong Maniac]

thansk worm, this thread is getting zero love

[Primemuscle]

i have an rx from an anti aging group, so all meds are legit but their instructions seem odd.

my last injection of T was on monday, so about 4 days ago. 50mg of cyp subq.

Do i begin HCG now? i was planning on 500iu EOD from tomorrow, until I am out.
after the hcg, begin the clomid at 50mg and Nolva at 20mg EOD (that is what the rx calls for).

I also have adex on hand if needed

scallys protocol seems to be close, but its ED and I cant tell when to start HCG, last shot of test, etc etc.

looking to get started tomorrow, help a brotha out. thanks jiz and others

Test on Monday, Arimidex on Wednesday and HCG on Saturday and Sunday. This works for me. Never had gyno though.

[Primemuscle]

had low test and i suspect odd hormone levels as a kid, flabby gyno, over all just soft. trt was a lifestyle choice. but now, i feel like im a slave to it. i want to see if i can function without it. if i need to get back on, then so be it.

Start with lab work to determine your free and total test levels. If after being off test for a couple of weeks, you're low, you probably should stay on TRT.

[theworm]

Start with lab work to determine your free and total test levels. If after being off test for a couple of weeks, you're low, you probably should stay on TRT.

You need to wait a few months to see what your test is going to be


Also, I drank lots of promogranite juice and took vit d which helped

There is hope.   I felt great after 6 months but then I hated how skinny I was and ducking hopped back on for some stupid reason, lol!

Also, I used sermorelin which helped me through the recovery ... I think that increased my gh levels so it wasn't such a hard fall

[triggerhappy]

My protocol was similar to his but i used HMG as well as HCG I started 3 weeks after last injection

 week 1-4 of hcg 1500iu eod
week 5-7 HMG 75iu eod
week 6-8 clomid 100ed nolva 40ed
week 8-10 clomid 50ed nolva 20ed
week 8-12 clomid 25ed nolva 10ed

This protocol got my fertility up from 0 sperm count to 108 million

Im sure it would be a better option for a full restart than just HCG major down side was the cost. But my fertility was more important than $

Numbers came back reasonable after 12 weeks but mrs was pregnant and i had no sex drive so i started using HCG at 250iu eod just to make me feel a bit better. Worked for a few weeks then back to shit so went back onto trt

[Thong Maniac]

My protocol was similar to his but i used HMG as well as HCG I started 3 weeks after last injection

 week 1-4 of hcg 1500iu eod
week 5-7 HMG 75iu eod
week 6-8 clomid 100ed nolva 40ed
week 8-10 clomid 50ed nolva 20ed
week 8-12 clomid 25ed nolva 10ed

This protocol got my fertility up from 0 sperm count to 108 million

Im sure it would be a better option for a full restart than just HCG major down side was the cost. But my fertility was more important than $

Numbers came back reasonable after 12 weeks but mrs was pregnant and i had no sex drive so i started using HCG at 250iu eod just to make me feel a bit better. Worked for a few weeks then back to shit so went back onto trt

thanks trigger, very good. quick question, that hcg dose looks high as fuck. i was going to do 500iu EOD, and run .25mg adex daily because im scared of gyno. did you notice any estro synptoms on that high of hcg with no AI?

[triggerhappy]

scally actually says to do 2500iu eod. I just had adex on hand and used it when needed. I think i took half a tab about twice a week.

[falco]

i have an rx from an anti aging group, so all meds are legit but their instructions seem odd.

my last injection of T was on monday, so about 4 days ago. 50mg of cyp subq.

Do i begin HCG now? i was planning on 500iu EOD from tomorrow, until I am out.
after the hcg, begin the clomid at 50mg and Nolva at 20mg EOD (that is what the rx calls for).

I also have adex on hand if needed

scallys protocol seems to be close, but its ED and I cant tell when to start HCG, last shot of test, etc etc.

looking to get started tomorrow, help a brotha out. thanks jiz and others

If you were on TRT to begin with, i would assume you had low testosterone production, hence, if it was already low due to Leydig cells poor testosterone production, it might not be possible to come out successfully of TRT. I mean, even on pregnyl/dufine protocols, your testicles might be non functional right now. Your age will also determin that.
I believe arimidex and nolvadex would be not necessary for it. Sometimes, with hormones imbalances, prolactin levels might be high, and negatively interfeering with testosterone production. Taking small dose dostinex might help.
 

[Jizmo]

agree on falco.
low test might be related to too little count of leydig cells or leydig cell insensitivity to stimulating hormones...
theres also the theory that high doses of HCG might actually desensitize leydig cells, further inhibiting your natural production. i would be careful with dosages above 500iu every couple days.

ill try to explain in laymans terms how HCG works:
HCG basically synthetically mimicks luteinizing hormone, which causes your balls to produce testosterone.
however natural testosterone production does not only need LH, but follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) aswell.
both LH and FSH are shut down while on AAS.
from my understanding HCG mimicks LH, so HCG essentially synthetically replaces part of the chain.
theres the theory that when (synthetic) LH is present FSH rises too.
if you then take out the HCG, FSH would then still be higher which in turn would again increase LH production.
if your body naturally produces both FSH and LH again you will have natural production going.

this is all very theoretical though... i never really understood the use of HCG for PCT, since it still shuts you down. and you will still need nolva/clomid PCT.
when you pull out the HCG you might have normal sized balls, but theyre only synthetically stimulated by the HCG - they can aswell start shrinking again afterwards. however since its essentially one step further towards natural production it might help.

if anything in there was wrong i apologize, its been a while since i read into PCT protocols since i dont plan on coming off completely.

[theworm]

I agree with jizmo

Hcg seems to work cause balls are getting big

Question:  I'm only on 10 weeks test 400...  Do I need all that fancy pct?  Was just thinking of clomid.   Do I really need nolva?

[Jizmo]

I agree with jizmo

Hcg seems to work cause balls are getting big

Question:  I'm only on 10 weeks test 400...  Do I need all that fancy pct?  Was just thinking of clomid.   Do I really need nolva?

just nolva or clomid is enough
you can combine low dose of both too, thats how i did when when i still did pct years ago
no need any of the fancy stuff for low dose and short cycles... this is more for an aggressive PCT after long or heavy cycles (with tren etc)

[theworm]

just nolva or clomid is enough
you can combine low dose of both too, thats how i did when when i still did pct years ago
no need any of the fancy stuff for low dose and short cycles... this is more for an aggressive PCT after long or heavy cycles (with tren etc)

Thanks man!!

What doses and duration of the clomid?

[Jizmo]

Thanks man!!

What doses and duration of the clomid?

3 weeks 50mg a day, you can run 150 or 100 for the first few days
id prefer nolva over clomid though. clomid gives more sides and depression for some. might be related to hormone comedown either way though

[Thong Maniac]

3 weeks 50mg a day, you can run 150 or 100 for the first few days
id prefer nolva over clomid though. clomid gives more sides and depression for some. might be related to hormone comedown either way though

so quick update jiz...
done about 1000iu of hcg so far (two 500iu shots over 4 days) and my right nipple was uncomfortable (keep in mind i had gyno cut out 4 months ago) so i aint playin. run .25mg adex per day and hit a quick drop of letro some old research chem i had laying around for good measure. i think hcg is wayy too estrogenic even with running adex. not gonna chance gyno again.

so, i think im just gonna do one last jab of like 500 iu of that hcg and toss it in the dumpster.
gonna just pop open the nolva and clomid and run that for pct. its been about 8 days since my last jab of T subq of 50mg cyp. so i feel like i tapered will enough with low doses.

tomorrow will be day 9 with no T, only some hcg so i guess im ok to start clomid and nolva at 25mg clomid and 10mg nolva per day? (my rx is for 50mg EOD of clomid and 20mg EoD of nolva).

edit: i plan to not tell my GP that im coming off T, so i can keep cashing in my rx thiugh. if thats the case, do i just pin a small smount of t before blood test, so it looks like i didnt completely crash?

[theworm]

so quick update jiz...
done about 1000iu of hcg so far (two 500iu shots over 4 days) and my right nipple was uncomfortable (keep in mind i had gyno cut out 4 months ago) so i aint playin. run .25mg adex per day and hit a quick drop of letro some old research chem i had laying around for good measure. i think hcg is wayy too estrogenic even with running adex. not gonna chance gyno again.

so, i think im just gonna do one last jab of like 500 iu of that hcg and toss it in the dumpster.
gonna just pop open the nolva and clomid and run that for pct. its been about 8 days since my last jab of T subq of 50mg cyp. so i feel like i tapered will enough with low doses.

tomorrow will be day 9 with no T, only some hcg so i guess im ok to start clomid and nolva at 25mg clomid and 10mg nolva per day? (my rx is for 50mg EOD of clomid and 20mg EoD of nolva).

Did some research on pct and some experts argue against hcg for pct and state it's counter productive....

[Thong Maniac]

Did some research on pct and some experts argue against hcg for pct and state it's counter productive....

they are probably right, i guess i was just looking at it as a lil restart to signal my nuts again. thats why i think just a few doses is all i need before clomid. but who knows, this is all bro science and im sure im fucked up and will never recover lol, been on for 4-5 years, some small blasts here and there. never went above 600mg total aas but did use some blackstone poison once or twice

[Jizmo]

yeah the way you used HCG could actually be slightly beneficial
in the time when the test ester tapers off you can use small shots of hcg (use 250iu at a time, twice a week. thats enough. ive seen a study that 500iu a week put guys into normal test level range) to get your nuts back working, however i wouldnt consider that part of a pct program. its kind of a bridge while the test tapers off

i would start the real pct about 3 or 4 weeks after your last shot... most people start way too early.
if you ran 500mg test E for example and the half life is roughly what, 5 days, then after 14 days youll have gone throught the half life time 3 times.
that makes 500mg:2:2:2=62.5mg (and that does NOT even count the accumulation over time, youll have much more than 500mg in your system at a time actually)... but for my arguments sake, 2 weeks after your last shot youll still have 62.5mg (or more) of test floating around in your system. thats still around natty levels, so PCT wont even have an effect until you drop to sub natty levels... which would be after 3 or 4 weeks.
i would just use 250iu hcg every 3 days or so until that point. i would ditch the adex and letro. if you wanna use an AI during PCT i would use aromasin. prevents any possible rebound (since we dont really know the half life of estrogen in males rebound could be an issue otherwise, even if theres no exogenous test coming in)

[triggerhappy]

1500iu eod had my test level at 12 confirmed via bloods

[theworm]

1500iu eod had my test level at 12 confirmed via bloods

Yeah, increases test but I think it's temporary then you crash again...

I'm going to stick with nolva, clomid, vit D and zinc

[Jizmo]

1500iu eod had my test level at 12 confirmed via bloods

12 on a scale from / to ?