Author Topic: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible  (Read 13549 times)

tom joad

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2006, 10:04:12 PM »
My Hemorrhoids rage.

tom joad

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2006, 07:23:29 AM »
Taco Bell may make you shit blood for 3 weeks, but it may be reversible.

Good point.  But can Taco Bell permanently damage the brain?

Dan-O

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2006, 08:09:00 AM »
Good point.  But can Taco Bell permanently damage the brain?

I don't know, but I went into a rage when they stopped selling Mucho Grande Nachos and may have suffered a stroke.

>:(

Johnny Apollo

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2006, 04:46:25 PM »
This study was done on Hampsters. All it proves is AAS causes Hampsters using to chase other hampsters tails around more often than hampsters not using AAS. ::)

The fact is...When you get higher up on the Evolutionary ladder as far as brain power and intelligence goes..The agressive effects of testosterone weaken to almost nothing.

Here is a study done ON REAL HUMANS determining there was no physiological effect noticed from the steroid (ABUSE).

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The study was conducted at the University of Pennsylvania Treatment Research Center; 10 subjects were enrolled and 7 completed the protocol. AASs and other drugs were obtained and self-administered by subjects through their usual mechanisms. On-study evaluations included medical, behavioral, and drug-use assessments. While a high incidence of mood disorders and substance abuse was found, few clinically relevant changes in physiological parameters or laboratory measures were noted throughout the study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12938869&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum

Here is another Study discussing how "Roid rage" is a myth....

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Endogenous testosterone levels have been linked to aggressive behaviour in both animals and humans. Studies administering moderate doses of exogenous testosterone for contraceptive and clinical purposes reveal essentially no adverse effects on male sexual and aggressive behaviour. However, investigations and case reports of athletes, usually involving higher doses, demonstrate an association between anabolic-androgenic steroid use and affective and psychotic syndromes and psychological dependence. Efforts to study the psychological and behavioural effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids are complicated by a variety of methodological limitations. Only 3 prospective, blinded studies demonstrating aggression or adverse overt behaviour resulting from anabolic-androgenic steroid use have been reported. With estimates of over 1 million past or current users in the US, an extremely small percentage of individuals using anabolic-androgenic steroids appear to experience mental disturbances severe enough to result in clinical treatment and medical case reports. Even among those so affected, the roles of previous psychiatric history, genetic susceptibility to addictions or mental disorders, environmental and peer influences, and individual expectations remain unclear.


This site (Norse site but english comments and reviews) has dozens of studies showing there aren't even any real irreversable side effects from Steroid use in normal healthy men.

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The relative lack of significant effects of testosterone on angry behaviors indicate that there is not a simply, direct causal relationship between steroid use and aggressive behavior in normal men.

http://odin.dep.no/jd/norsk/dok/andre_dok/rapporter/012041-220005/hov008-bn.html

BroadStreetBruiser

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2006, 04:47:25 PM »
johnny apollo, go to bed you type to fucking much
$

Johnny Apollo

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2006, 04:58:14 PM »
johnny apollo, go to bed you type to fucking much


If you don't want to learn then don't read what I type. Remain ignorant.


But for those of you who want to learn,I have alot of educational things to say. I also provide credible sources for everything I say unlike most people.

rocket

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2006, 05:03:00 PM »
I don't think roid rage is a myth.

I don't think its a huge concept though, its no more prevalent than alcohol induced aggressive tendencies and both these effects seem to be isolated to idiots who can barely control their emotions as it is.  Its no suprise that given increased testosterone that you'll find psychological effects (or decreased mental capacity to regulate emotions from alcohol)

Being an intelligent human being would diminish these effects because by virtue of intelligence you generally are in a lot more control with your actions.  Intelligent people are more logical and emotions are anything but logic at the best of times.

Johnny Apollo

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2006, 05:07:07 PM »
I don't think roid rage is a myth.

I don't think its a huge concept though, its no more prevalent than alcohol induced aggressive tendencies and both these effects seem to be isolated to idiots who can barely control their emotions as it is.  Its no suprise that given increased testosterone that you'll find psychological effects (or decreased mental capacity to regulate emotions from alcohol)

Being an intelligent human being would diminish these effects because by virtue of intelligence you generally are in a lot more control with your actions.  Intelligent people are more logical and emotions are anything but logic at the best of times.


There isn't any credible scientific evidence that shows a link between Testosterone and Agression in adult healthy male humans.

The only thing you've got are anecdotal accounts which are about as reliable as bigfoot sightings or UFO sightings...Or even better as far as drugs go..."Marijuana madness". ::)

Matt

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2006, 05:17:22 PM »

There isn't any credible scientific evidence that shows a link between Testosterone and Agression in adult healthy male humans.

The only thing you've got are anecdotal accounts which are about as reliable as bigfoot sightings or UFO sightings...Or even better as far as drugs go..."Marijuana madness". ::)

lol!

The American government is so moronic when it comes to weed.  Some people SMOKING A JOINT would get five years in jail.

In Canada, grow-ops in my city have been busted and all they get is house arrest lol.  Canada used to be bad but at least now they have common sense.  They need to punish distributors somehow because there is still social stigma surrounding weed.  But knowing there is no true "crime" when it comes to buying/selling drugs (ESPECIALLY weed), they don't give much punishment.

Hey DEA: newsflash - all your efforts don't even put a dent in drug use.  Stop trying, get your heads our of your damn asses, and find a system that WORKS if you want to curb drug use.  Ruining lives of users and dealers doesn't do that.  Get a damn clue.

Maybe spend taxpayer dollars chasing actual criminals.  Just a thought.

rocket

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2006, 05:22:50 PM »

There isn't any credible scientific evidence that shows a link between Testosterone and Agression in adult healthy male humans.

The only thing you've got are anecdotal accounts which are about as reliable as bigfoot sightings or UFO sightings...Or even better as far as drugs go..."Marijuana madness". ::)

You could well be right, 

What I'm wondering is have there been studies taken to see effects of increases on people who are known to have significant problems regulating emotion/displaying aggresive tendencies as it is?

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2006, 05:35:58 PM »
Taco Bell may make you shit blood for 3 weeks, but it may be reversible.

It's also worth every drop of mixed liquid.

Johnny Apollo

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2006, 06:29:30 PM »
lol!

The American government is so moronic when it comes to weed.  Some people SMOKING A JOINT would get five years in jail.

In Canada, grow-ops in my city have been busted and all they get is house arrest lol.  Canada used to be bad but at least now they have common sense.  They need to punish distributors somehow because there is still social stigma surrounding weed.  But knowing there is no true "crime" when it comes to buying/selling drugs (ESPECIALLY weed), they don't give much punishment.

Hey DEA: newsflash - all your efforts don't even put a dent in drug use.  Stop trying, get your heads our of your damn asses, and find a system that WORKS if you want to curb drug use.  Ruining lives of users and dealers doesn't do that.  Get a damn clue.

Maybe spend taxpayer dollars chasing actual criminals.  Just a thought.


Right considering Marijuana hasn't killed a single person in recorded medical History..Our Govt(U.S. govt) finds the need to Throw marijuana growers or Users into Prison for years.

Throwing someone into prison for smoking a plant to make themselves feel better...Real Logical! ::)

Throwing someone into Prison for taking a substance in their own homes to increase muscle growth...That's real logical!

Spending over 50 billion a year on the "war on drugs" when drug use is increasing in most areas.

Outlawing substances thus creating a "black market" around them where violent crimes thrive and the substance theirselves are less pure and more deadly than if produced by clean labs.

 ::) ::)

rocket

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2006, 07:36:33 PM »

Right considering Marijuana hasn't killed a single person in recorded medical History..Our Govt(U.S. govt) finds the need to Throw marijuana growers or Users into Prison for years.

Throwing someone into prison for smoking a plant to make themselves feel better...Real Logical! ::)

Throwing someone into Prison for taking a substance in their own homes to increase muscle growth...That's real logical!

Spending over 50 billion a year on the "war on drugs" when drug use is increasing in most areas.

Outlawing substances thus creating a "black market" around them where violent crimes thrive and the substance theirselves are less pure and more deadly than if produced by clean labs.

 ::) ::)

Whilst I personally favour and understand your point, if you don't see the other side of the argument then you're just as ignorant as those who adopt these laws blindly.  I'm not talking about steroids by the way as they have limited (if any) effect psychologically on the mainstream.

Given that the general population are somewhat "lacking in control" illegality surely provides a (crude) way of regulating drug use especially in public where such use may be damaging on other people's lives. 

I'm not saying that it would be worse without such government control or that there are not better options, just that its something to ponder - having known quite a few people who have been seriously addicted to marijuana.  And yes, whilst they have not died they have surely become underachieving deadshits (and in two cases there has been serious mental degradation).

I say this because I perceive that alcohol is the most damaging substance being abused and it causes a huge amount of trouble because of the fact that its socially acceptable, freely available, unregulated and legal to consume.

At the end of the day there is no right or wrong answer to this question.  People will die, have their lives ruined either way.  It seems unclear to me which side of the argument would produce the lesser injustices though  :-\

body88

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2006, 07:44:24 PM »

There isn't any credible scientific evidence that shows a link between Testosterone and Agression in adult healthy male humans.

The only thing you've got are anecdotal accounts which are about as reliable as bigfoot sightings or UFO sightings...Or even better as far as drugs go..."Marijuana madness". ::)


Saying Testosterone doesent cause aggression is complete shit. Study or not we all know that is shit.

Johnny Apollo

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2006, 08:06:13 PM »
Whilst I personally favour and understand your point, if you don't see the other side of the argument then you're just as ignorant as those who adopt these laws blindly.  I'm not talking about steroids by the way as they have limited (if any) effect psychologically on the mainstream.

You're assuming I don't know the couterarguments. I've heard ALL of the counter arguments to legalization of illegal drugs and I can refute them all.


Given that the general population are somewhat "lacking in control" illegality surely provides a (crude) way of regulating drug use especially in public where such use may be damaging on other people's lives. 

You're making the false assumption these drugs would damage people's lives.

You're also assuming that making the drugs legal would increase the rate of use while the evidence shows contrary.

When Marijuana use was decriminalized in the Netherlands the rate of use didn't increase that much. As a matter of a fact the rate of use among teenagers in the Netherlands is BELOW that of teenagers in the united states.

You're also assuming that the "war on drugs" itself doesn't ruin people's lives or create even more crime when this is also false.


I'm not saying that it would be worse without such government control or that there are not better options, just that its something to ponder - having known quite a few people who have been seriously addicted to marijuana.  And yes, whilst they have not died they have surely become underachieving deadshits (and in two cases there has been serious mental degradation).

You've known no one who has ever been "Addicted" to marijuana in the medical sense. Marijuana isn't phsiologically addictive. In medicine "Addictive" is defined as there being a physical withdrawl from the drug you are addicted to. This isn't the case with marijuana.
People may like to smoke marijuana and then do it often,But this isn't addiction. They could stop anytime they wanted without any withdrawls.

Most studies showing marijuana has withdrawl symptoms are "junk science" by universities funded by the govt to come to a particular conclusion no matter what. This isn't real science.


Not that it even matters if Marijuana is addictive or not. Alcohol is also addictive and that's a proven fact. Yet Alcohol is Legal. Marijuana doesn't kill,Never has,Never can. Alcohol kills thousands of people a year in the U.S. alone..Yet it's legal.


quote author=rocket link=topic=59542.msg902589#msg902589 date=1142307393]I say this because I perceive that alcohol is the most damaging substance being abused and it causes a huge amount of trouble because of the fact that its socially acceptable, freely available, unregulated and legal to consume.

At the end of the day there is no right or wrong answer to this question.  People will die, have their lives ruined either way.  It seems unclear to me which side of the argument would produce the lesser injustices though  :-\
[/quote]

Marijuana itself has never killed a single person in recorded medical History. It just isn't toxic enough to cause an overdose or a death. Yet Alcohol killed over 85,000 in 2000 alone.
Compairing Marijuana to Alcohol is just stupid.

The fact of the matter is simple...Decriminalizing Marijuana might cause a slight increase in the number of vehicle wrecks a year..WoW! Keeping it illegal means we're spending BILLIONS upon BILLIONS a year fighting growers and users and even more Billions locking them up in Prisons and keeping them there. 1 single individual costs the Tax payers thousands of dollars a year to imprison. We Imprison THOUSANDS of marijuana growers,dealers and users a year.


Not even mentioning the entire Civil Liberties argument that everyone individual has the right to put whatever substance he wants into his own Body...The Govt has no right to say what you can or can't put into your own body.

It's funny that conservatives argue for "Small government" and "More civil liberties" yet they are always the one's who push the "anti-drug" bills into law and shout "Marijuana is deadly,Think of the children! More govt control!" when it comes down to it.

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2006, 10:08:59 PM »
Steroid Rage exists as i have flown of the handle a couple of times
BOBB SAPP KILLS

rocket

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2006, 10:22:48 PM »
You're assuming I don't know the couterarguments. I've heard ALL of the counter arguments to legalization of illegal drugs and I can refute them all.

So tiring to have to listen to this self righteous nonsense.  You cannot refute all of the counter arguments. 

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You're making the false assumption these drugs would damage people's lives.

You obviously don't know a lot of imbeciles.  Making drugs legal is as good a thing as going on TV and telling the world that drugs are safe.  People really are that stupid.

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When Marijuana use was decriminalized in the Netherlands the rate of use didn't increase that much. As a matter of a fact the rate of use among teenagers in the Netherlands is BELOW that of teenagers in the united states.

Different culture, I personally wouldn't endorse marijuana in the US or australia (where I am).  That is, if I were attempting to curb use.

Quote
You're also assuming that the "war on drugs" itself doesn't ruin people's lives or create even more crime when this is also false.

Incorrect.  I said there were victims on both sides.  Remember, I am not debating any side, just pointing out that I recognise why there is a hesitancy to change things from how they are.  That has nothing to do with "the war on drugs" - a subject I know little about except to say that it seems to be a somewhat losing battle.

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You've known no one who has ever been "Addicted" to marijuana in the medical sense. Marijuana isn't phsiologically addictive. In medicine "Addictive" is defined as there being a physical withdrawl from the drug you are addicted to. This isn't the case with marijuana.

I don't know, is not being able to sleep a physical withdrawal.  Ever seen a man pace in a room backwards and forwards for hours because he doesn't have any weed?  Every stood infront of someone who is babbling incoherent nonsense because he smoked weed an hour ago - so much so that he cannot respond to direct questions.. just keeps asking you whether "you want to die for this"?  Who really cares about defining addiction.  Suffice to say some people perceive they need to smoke weed continuously.  End of discussion.  Proving addiction means nothing.   

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Not that it even matters if Marijuana is addictive or not. Alcohol is also addictive and that's a proven fact. Yet Alcohol is Legal. Marijuana doesn't kill,Never has,Never can. Alcohol kills thousands of people a year in the U.S. alone..Yet it's legal.

That is purposely naive, if anything in alcohols case it should be illegal rather than a catalyst for legalisation of other substances (via the faulty logic that if it is legal other drugs should be).  I'm sure you know that just as well as I do.  Somehow I think it shits on your case though doesn't it ::)

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Marijuana itself has never killed a single person in recorded medical History. It just isn't toxic enough to cause an overdose or a death. Yet Alcohol killed over 85,000 in 2000 alone.
Compairing Marijuana to Alcohol is just stupid.

Actually I wasn't, I was pointing out that when a drug is considered safe by virtue of legality society (or more to the point, the imbeciles) abuse this and thus we have a problem.

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The fact of the matter is simple...Decriminalizing Marijuana might cause a slight increase in the number of vehicle wrecks a year..WoW! Keeping it illegal means we're spending BILLIONS upon BILLIONS a year fighting growers and users and even more Billions locking them up in Prisons and keeping them there. 1 single individual costs the Tax payers thousands of dollars a year to imprison. We Imprison THOUSANDS of marijuana growers,dealers and users a year.

I'm not really arguing the case for marijuana, you were talking more broadly during your post (though I am aware you have referenced marijuana).

Quote
Not even mentioning the entire Civil Liberties argument that everyone individual has the right to put whatever substance he wants into his own Body...The Govt has no right to say what you can or can't put into your own body.

You say you can refute every side of the argument but you appear incredibly narrow minded.  You only really care about your civil liberties and your right to consume.  I'm not saying that either side has a irrefutable case.  What I was saying is that there are clear examples on both sides of where injustices will occur(ie, the fact that your actions are restricted to protect perhaps less responsible people).

You seem to lack the experience of ever knowing just how weak people really are and you've failed to convince me that legalising drugs is irrefutably necessary.  If anything my main concern, the example of alcohol and its misuse in society you absolutely fail to explain, rather attempting like oh so many of the self serving drug law reformists to use its failures to indicate validity based upon the fact that it is a menace yet still legal.

What a load of tripe. 

Why not be a progressive individual and admit that on both sides there are significant issues.   

Why be a hypocrite and claim you know everything? 

Matt

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2006, 10:37:39 PM »
I haven't read all the debate so far but the US war on drugs quite clearly and obviously causes far more harm than good.

Picture a system whereby all drugs are legalized and quality controlled by the government.  A system where BILLIONS in tax dollars are created every year and BILLIONS are saved by not fighting drugs (a fight the US government will never win, sorry to break it to the narcs reading this) - this money can be put towards educational programs to prevent drug use as well as rehabilitation programs.

Legalizing all drugs does not mean the floodgates will be open and everyone will do drugs.  If heroin was legal would you do it?  I wouldn't.  In fact, those who want to do drugs will do them regardless of the law.  The difference being that if they are illegal the quality is always in question and there is an underground economy being supported.

Hey guess what?  If I wanted to do a gram of blow tomorrow night, I WOULD DO A GRAM OF BLOW TOMORROW NIGHT.  If I wanted to do a gram of test each week for three months, I WOULD DO A GRAM OF TEST EACH WEEK FOR THREE MONTHS.  Myself and countless others have 0 regard to the law when it comes to drugs and OUR OWN bodies (not DEA property I should add).  Drugs being illegal just makes me concerned about the quality.  Drugs being illegal just wastes police manpower and ruins lives (of dealers and users).

And why is it that I am allowed to kill myself with fast food but not with drugs?  Who is the government to decide in what manner I can abuse MY body (again, not property of the conservative government).

Drugs have a stigma to them.  There are so many ignorant people out there when it comes to the safety of drugs.  My mother thinks that drugs are the worst things ever - and if all the bullshit she thinks about drugs WAS true (which it is not), I would think drugs are the worst thing ever too!

Native indian tribes have been using some psychedelic drugs (like shrooms) for centuries.  Almost any drug can be enjoyed if they are respected.

I was THRILLED to see a poster at my university which said "If you're going to do drugs, use a clean needle".  FINALLY somebody got the point - people WILL do drugs anyway.  It is useless to make a poster which says "Don't use drugs (heroin)" because people WILL do it no matter what.  So we should at least encourage safe and responsible use.  People would stop doing drugs as much if there wasn't this stigma.  We need to explain to people that drugs are a personal choice, but sometimes not the best choice - but ultimately their own choice and nobody else's.  People would not feel as rebellious if we explained this.

Check out this animated gif at the top of steroidabuse.gov:

http://steroidabuse.gov/images/125x125-steroids.gif

Drugs are not the enemy!  Ignorance is.

FACT: the current system and war on drugs is NOT working.  Who knows what system would work best, but the current one does not.

rocket

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2006, 11:44:34 PM »
You're right, ignorance is the enemy and the people who are irresponsible with alcohol and other drugs are very much the crux of why legalisation may create a big problem.  Ignorant people ruin it for all and sundry.  They cause the trouble and they vote in mass for the politicians who kneejerk upon drug related deaths, in turn forcing the passing of blanket laws unfair on the responsible.

Drug legalisation *might* work but to claim that you know it all and whats going to happen is hilarious! 

It is really not the short term that is the problem, its the long term effects of certain drugs becoming socially acceptable - and to the ignorant the law presents what is "acceptable".  Hence the reason alcohol is the most menacing substance on earth.   

If you don't believe me, talk to these numbskulls and watch them get conflicted when you say alcohol is a drug.

Addiction is only a question when people talk about substances suckering in the ill informed.  Well who gives a shit because people still start smoking every day.  It might have been an excuse when the public was unaware of the fact nicotine is both addictive and damaging to your health but nobody could use the excuse that when they started they did not know cigarettes were extremely unhealthy now.

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2006, 05:03:04 AM »
Here's the low down on roid rage:

If you are an asshole before you start using, you will definetly be a bigger asshole when you are on.
If you are level-headed before you start using, nothing adverse will happen.
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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2006, 05:21:22 AM »
Here's the low down on roid rage:

If you are an asshole before you start using, you will definetly be a bigger asshole when you are on.
If you are level-headed before you start using, nothing adverse will happen.

I tend to agree.... I believe any aggression while on the juice is purely psychological in that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  It will give assholes an "excuse" to be one.

SM

rocket

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2006, 05:32:29 AM »
Here's the low down on roid rage:

If you are an asshole before you start using, you will definetly be a bigger asshole when you are on.
If you are level-headed before you start using, nothing adverse will happen.

Yeh, like I said, have there been studies done on subjects who are prone to emotional outburts/lack of control with respect to increasing testosterone.

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2006, 07:59:38 AM »
Of course testosterone increases aggressivity, and of course a reduction in it will reduce aggressivity. Duh!

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Re: roid rage may be lasting, but reversible
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2006, 08:22:58 AM »
Roid rage is bullshit. It's an excuse for assholes to act like even BIGGER ASSHOLES!