having kids....i still dont know the right move

[Primemuscle]

Some one added a good question about how long you two have been married for?  This makes a difference.

We were married for 7 years before having kids.  And before marriage we dated for like 6 years on and off.  That definitely helps with the "feeling ready" factor.

It still boils down to maturity. My wife and I were married a little over a year before she got pregnant. We'd been married almost exactly two years when our son was born. As with many young couples, we weren't financially sound when he was young. it didn't hurt him.  He's both successful and has been happily married for the last 28 years. He will be fifty next October.

[hardgainerj]

having kids out of wedlock is stupid right next to getting married

[Radical Plato]

To contribute something positive to the sadly negative world we live in today. It's called hope.

So you believe willingly inflicting unnecessary suffering on an innocent being is OK because it gives you hope.  Righty O then, got it.

[Radical Plato]

This depends on what one derives from their dysfunctional family. Some of us work to create the exact opposite of what we experienced as kids. I am not personally familiar with physical abuse, not having ever been physically abused and not having abused my children. I do remember reciting those annoying little clichés which I said I never would to my children.

Well, I am all too familiar with an abusive and dysfunctional upbringing, and it put me off having children for good.  My Mother and Father separated after 44 years, she could no longer tolerate his abuse.  My Mother's father was an animal, incredibly abusive and my Mother always said she had children (5 of them) because she thought she could do better. Guess what? She couldn't.  I knew I couldn't do better, I mean how could I given the example I was modelled.  Sadly even insight isn't always enough, most people simply unconsciously repeat what was done to them, hence the reason the world is such a fucked up place.  The only HOPE for the planet is if adults start advocating for children, but because most people think they are well when they are not and never even think there's a problem.  Children are the most vulnerable people in our community and sadly the most poorly treated.

Most people don't seriously analyse their childhood and most societies place little value on researching child rearing and it's impact on future development.  Take corporal punishment for example, still legal in many places across the globe.  I have no idea why people would have children  only to beat them, most people have never even thought about what is the best way to raise a child, they just REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT. Parents are supposed to protect their children from abuse, and yet many of them consider abuse a form of protection, terribly sad.  That's the biggest problem with childhood abuse, is that adults simply repeat it and often don't even think it is abuse.

I would recommend any getbigger here taking the plunge into parenthood to read the works of Alice Miller, it could only make them a better parent.  I Imagine reading her books would be too confronting for most getbiggers who are obviously damaged from their own childhoods, hence the reason they spend a lot of time weight training and posting on a bodybuilding forum. 

http://www.alice-miller.com/en/

[OB1]

Most people don't seriously analyse their childhood and most societies place little value on researching child rearing and it's impact on future development.  

Yes, it is very important to analyze and finally get rid of your childhood crap.

[Radical Plato]

I do not believe in regrets....so no, I do not regret choosing to have a family.

Yeah, but your children might regret your decision.

[Radical Plato]

Yes, it is very important to analyze and finally get rid of your childhood crap.

Yeah, but it's not so easy to get rid of. This is why childhood abuse is considered so damaging.  It is more a case of managing it than getting rid of it. And this is why criminals in jail will kill child abusers because they know the reason they ended up in jail was because of mistreatment from their own childhoods.  In some cases abuse is so bad that the person is broken, unfixable.  Alice Miller researched serial killers and found almost all of them suffered serious childhood abuse. Almost always whenever you hear of a dictator, or psychopath or just evil human being you can guarantee it is the result of child abuse, whether it is acknowledged or not.

[SF1900]

Yes, it is very important to analyze and finally get rid of your childhood crap.

No one gets rid of their "childhood" crap. Many of your behaviors that you currently display are determined by your early experiences, both good and bad. Who you become is largely shaped in childhood.

From a trauma perspective, no child "gets rid of it." You can't forget about being abused. How does one forget about it? You can't. You learn to integrate and understand the experience and place the trauma within a narrative that is congruent with ones self (cohesive self-identity). As such, you learn to manage, understand, and integrate the traumatic experience into your self.

[Radical Plato]

No one gets rid of their "childhood" crap. Many of your behaviors that you currently display are determined by your early experiences, both good and bad. Who you become is largely shaped in childhood.

From a trauma perspective, no child "gets rid of it." You can't forget about being abused. How does one forget about it? You can't. You learn to integrate and understand the experience and place the trauma within a narrative that is congruent with ones self (cohesive self-identity). As such, you learn to manage, understand, and integrate the traumatic experience into your self.

Did you experience abuse as a child SF1900? (That you are consciously aware of)

[OB1]

No one gets rid of their "childhood" crap. Many of your behaviors that you currently display are determined by your early experiences, both good and bad. Who you become is largely shaped in childhood.

From a trauma perspective, no child "gets rid of it." You can't forget about being abused. How does one forget about it? You can't. You learn to integrate and understand the experience and place the trauma within a narrative that is congruent with ones self (cohesive self-identity). As such, you learn to manage, understand, and integrate the traumatic experience into your self.

Maybe i put that wrong.
Basically I meant:
Getting rid of the negative influence over you.
Getting rid of unconscious behaviour related to your childhood.
And so on...

[SF1900]

Maybe i put that wrong.
Basically I meant:
Getting rid of the negative influence over you.
Getting rid of unconscious behaviour related to your childhood.
And so on...

Most of our life is unconscious. A perfect joke about the unconscious. Two goldfish are swimming in a bowl, and one goldfish turns to the other goldfish and says, "How's the water?" The other goldfish responds, "What water?" The goldfish has been swimming in water for so long, that he does not realize he's swimming in water. Similarly, for so long, we swim in our own unconscious, that we do not realize how it affects us. There is much work being done in the areas of neuroscience and the unconscious.

I 100% agree with you that part of understanding traumatic experiences is making the unconscious conscious. Listen, we are ALL wounded. No one comes out of life unscathed. We are just wounded in different ways, and some more than others. Understanding the link between early wounds and current behavior is paramount. However, it doesn't stop there. There is a psychiatrist, Bessel van der Kolk, who has been doing great work with the body regarding trauma.  Traumatic experiences are just not stored in our memories; the brain stores traumatic experiences bodily. This is why when someone experiences a sight or smell that reminds them of a traumatic experience, they experience physiological symptoms. Trauma is stored bodily. Much of van der Kolk's work has been relying on yoga, meditation, and other bodily activities to control the physiological responses associated with trauma.  He just wrote a book, "The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma." Thus, healing from trauma encompasses two prongs: making the unconscious conscious and mastery over the body, i.e., mastering a physiological system that is out of control due to traumatic experiences.

[SF1900]

Did you experience abuse as a child SF1900? (That you are consciously aware of)

Fuck off. Try to troll someone else, because I don't fall for your pathetic attempts at trolling, which is why I ignore all of your posts when you respond to me. You're either going to be largely civil or largely a troll; based on your posts, its largely the latter. As such, I will not play into your petty attempts at trolling. Even when I tried to be civil and provide you with information about the philosophical doctrine of "Absurdism," you were still a dick the next day. So, you can kindly fuck off, and I will go back to ignoring you.

Thanks.

Your friend,

SF1900

ps - self-imposed meltdown

[Radical Plato]

Fuck off. Try to troll someone else, because I don't fall for your pathetic attempts at trolling, which is why I ignore all of your posts when you respond to me. You're either going to be largely civil or largely a troll; based on your posts, its largely the latter. As such, I will not play into your petty attempts at trolling. Even when I tried to be civil and provide you with information about the philosophical doctrine of "Absurdism," you were still a dick the next day. So, you can kindly fuck off, and I will go back to ignoring you.

Thanks.

Your friend,

SF1900

ps - self-imposed meltdown

I'll take that as a yes.  

Oh, and was that you who put me onto absurdism, that topic really resonated with me.  And I don;t pay attention to who posts what, I don't try and make friends I just respond to the message and not the messenger.

This is why I sometimes say I prefer to be hated, then there is no obligation to be false or fake.  This whole political correctness debacle is born out of seeking the approval of others.

[Radical Plato]

Most of our life is unconscious. A perfect joke about the unconscious. Two goldfish are swimming in a bowl, and one goldfish turns to the other goldfish and says, "How's the water?" The other goldfish responds, "What water?" The goldfish has been swimming in water for so long, that he does not realize he's swimming in water. Similarly, for so long, we swim in our own unconscious, that we do not realize how it affects us. There is much work being done in the areas of neuroscience and the unconscious.

I 100% agree with you that part of understanding traumatic experiences is making the unconscious conscious. Listen, we are ALL wounded. No one comes out of life unscathed. We are just wounded in different ways, and some more than others. Understanding the link between early wounds and current behavior is paramount. However, it doesn't stop there. There is a psychiatrist, Bessel van der Kolk, who has been doing great work with the body regarding trauma.  Traumatic experiences are just not stored in our memories; the brain stores traumatic experiences bodily. This is why when someone experiences a sight or smell that reminds them of a traumatic experience, they experience physiological symptoms. Trauma is stored bodily. Much of van der Kolk's work has been relying on yoga, meditation, and other bodily activities to control the physiological responses associated with trauma.  He just wrote a book, "The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma." Thus, healing from trauma encompasses two prongs: making the unconscious conscious and mastery over the body, i.e., mastering a physiological system that is out of control due to traumatic experiences.

I will look into him, I have read a lot of the work of ALice Miller who talks about the same thing, she even wrote a book called "The body never lies" that talks about the connection between physical ailments and past unresolved or unconscious traumas.

http://www.alice-miller.com/en/the-body-never-lies-2/

[SF1900]

I'll take that as a yes.  

Oh, and was that you who put me onto absurdism, that topic really resonated with me.  And I don;t pay attention to who posts what, I don't try and make friends I just respond to the message and not the messenger.

This is why I sometimes say I prefer to be hated, then there is no obligation to be false or fake.  This whole political correctness debacle is born out of seeking the approval of others.

Poor attempts at trolling. I am not going to talk about my personal life on here. So, you will not know whether or not I experienced any trauma. Plain and simple.

However, from a professional/career standpoint, you probably have a good idea what I am in school for/what my career is, just based on my above posts.  It doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. Thus, you can probably figure out why I know so much about trauma.

ps - Ive read most works by Alice Miller. Yes, it was me who put you onto "absurdism."

[OB1]

Most of our life is unconscious. A perfect joke about the unconscious. Two goldfish are swimming in a bowl, and one goldfish turns to the other goldfish and says, "How's the water?" The other goldfish responds, "What water?" The goldfish has been swimming in water for so long, that he does not realize he's swimming in water. Similarly, for so long, we swim in our own unconscious, that we do not realize how it affects us. There is much work being done in the areas of neuroscience and the unconscious.

I 100% agree with you that part of understanding traumatic experiences is making the unconscious conscious. Listen, we are ALL wounded. No one comes out of life unscathed. We are just wounded in different ways, and some more than others. Understanding the link between early wounds and current behavior is paramount. However, it doesn't stop there. There is a psychiatrist, Bessel van der Kolk, who has been doing great work with the body regarding trauma.  Traumatic experiences are just not stored in our memories; the brain stores traumatic experiences bodily. This is why when someone experiences a sight or smell that reminds them of a traumatic experience, they experience physiological symptoms. Trauma is stored bodily. Much of van der Kolk's work has been relying on yoga, meditation, and other bodily activities to control the physiological responses associated with trauma.  He just wrote a book, "The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma." Thus, healing from trauma encompasses two prongs: making the unconscious conscious and mastery over the body, i.e., mastering a physiological system that is out of control due to traumatic experiences.

Thanks.
I will look into it.

[Radical Plato]

Poor attempts at trolling. I am not going to talk about my personal life on here. So, you will not know whether or not I experienced any trauma. Plain and simple.

However, from a professional/career standpoint, you probably have a good idea what I am in school for/what my career is, just based on my above posts.  It doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. Thus, you can probably figure out why I know so much about trauma.

ps - Ive read most works by Alice Miller. Yes, it was me who put you onto "absurdism."

So if I apologise for hurting your feelings will you be my friend again?



Yeah, and I try not to talk too much about my personal life on here.  Better for others to assume I am a loser than for me to remove any doubt. 

[SF1900]

Thanks.
I will look into it.

Another good book is called, "Ghosts from the Nursery."

Check out the ACE study, which is one of the largest investigations ever conducted to assess associations between childhood maltreatment and later-life health and well-being.

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/

[OB1]

Another good book is called, "Ghosts from the Nursery."

Check out the ACE study, which is one of the largest investigations ever conducted to assess associations between childhood maltreatment and later-life health and well-being.

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/

Ok.
Will do.

[SF1900]

So if I apologise for hurting your feelings will you be my friend again?

You didn't hurt my feelings, cupcake. We all troll here (me included), however, the same people that troll are the same people that can also have a serious conversation. You're pretty much incapable of having a serious conversation for more than a minute. So, it has nothing to do with hurt feelings. Im just NOT going to respond to people who consistently try to waste my time.

[Radical Plato]

You didn't hurt my feelings, cupcake. We all troll here (me included), however, the same people that troll are the same people that can also have a serious conversation. You're pretty much incapable of having a serious conversation for more than a minute. So, it has nothing to do with hurt feelings. Im just NOT going to respond to people who consistently try to waste my time.

Well, perhaps you mistake my serious conversation for trolling,  it happens all the time. And I like it when you call me cupcake makes me feel all lovey dovey.    I just happen to have extreme views. As someone who would prefer an anarchistic society and a constant state of revolution and who often tells people I look forward to a fiery apocalypse and the destruction of the modern world I can understand why you think I was a troll.  I just think people are better human beings when the masses suffer.  People are complete cun+s during times of prosperity.

[nzmusclemonster]

Well, since you listed certain aspects,  if you get her pregnant her "aspects" will become larger. So, that is a plus in having kids. Plus, you get the teach the young man (if it is a boy) all the things to avoid in today's world, and teach him how to be the man you are not. Revel in the fact that he will be better than you.
If it is a girl, teach her how to avoid men like you. Revel in the fact that she will find a man far better you ever could be.
So, say yes to the BMC way tonight.

Brutal ownage 

[SF1900]

Well, perhaps you mistake my serious conversation for trolling,  it happens all the time. And I like it when you call me cupcake makes me feel all lovey dovey.    I just happen to have extreme views. As someone who would prefer an anarchistic society and a constant state of revolution and who often tells people I look forward to a fiery apocalypse and the destruction of the modern world I can understand why you think I was a troll.  I just think people are better human beings when the masses suffer.  People are complete cun+s during times of prosperity.

So be it. To each their own.

[Radical Plato]

So be it. To each their own.

Let's use a hypothetical to demonstrate, whenever a minority suffers, let's say abused children.  There suffering is compounded by the majority not being able to understand their negative life experiences as a result of that abuse, with the exception of those who study the matter.  Now if all children were abused there would be a greater incentive to stamp out the practise altogether, because everyone would grow up and understand how detrimental it was to the enjoyment of their lives.  So human beings only do the right thing when it benefits them. Rather than say "there but for the grace of God go I", they say "Better them than me".  Hence the reason I believe that although paradoxical, human beings would be better off after a cataclysmic failure of the current system caused by mass devastation, since this would cause the survivors to suffer pretty much equally, people would suddenly find their humanity, hence be better off.

[SF1900]

Let's use a hypothetical to demonstrate, whenever a minority suffers, let's say abused children.  There suffering is compounded by the majority not being able to understand their negative life experiences as a result of that abuse, with the exception of those who study the matter.  Now if all children were abused there would be a greater incentive to stamp out the practise altogether, because everyone would grow up and understand how detrimental it was to the enjoyment of their lives.  So human beings only do the right thing when it benefits them. Rather than say "there but for the grace of God go I", they say "Better them than me".  Hence the reason I believe that although paradoxical, human beings would be better off after a cataclysmic failure of the current system caused by mass devastation, since this would cause the survivors to suffer pretty much equally, people would suddenly find their humanity, hence be better off.

In simple lay terms, you're really just talking about the whole "shoe on the other foot." People have a problem with empathy. We live in a VERY individualistic world. We don't have a sense of community. We have a real problem with the "other." Its something we struggle with our whole lives, i.e., how do we assert our individual, autonomous selves, while still being connected to a large group (marriage, family, community). We have advanced so far as humans because we evolved to live in groups. Its a fact. During Prehistoric times, Ancient times, and middle ages (3 major timelines in history), we functioned and thrived in groups. However, group cohesion began to deteriorate for many reasons (industrial revolution, urban communities, centralized state). We have lost those roots, and as such, we have a problem understanding another persons suffering. When people lived in groups, they supported and cared for each other. Now, most people do not even know their neighbors who live 6 houses away from them.