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Author Topic: In search of enlightenment  (Read 5624 times)
illuminati
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« on: January 21, 2016, 03:44:12 PM »

Enlighten me please.
Where is God.?
What is God.?
What has God Created.?
What Does God do.?
Where can I see God.?
Who has God ever Helped.?
Which God is The God of Gods.?

Please answer in Facts & Specifics.

Not Scriptures / Not Thousands of years old here-say / Not suspend logical thought process / Not Faith.

Cold Hard indisputable Facts From The Here & Now.

Thanks.
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 08:36:08 PM »

On his throne in his heaven.
The ultimate being.  alpha and omega.  beginning and end.
Everything.
He's sovereign over all.
Scripture, creation, believers, Jesus Christ
All sorts of folks.  Too many for me to know.  Helps as it fits his perfect will and purposes.
There's only one God who expresses his divinity in the persons of father, son and spirit.

Those are some facts of God and I was specific as the questions would allow yet brief.

God requires faith.  God communicates through scripture.  Scripture is thousands of years old.  Don't need to suspend thought.

Done.

You're welcome.
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illuminati
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 08:50:43 PM »

I appreciate you answering.

I am not enlightened though.
Not one of your answers is in any way Fact
Those answers could be applied to any imaginary
Thing whatever we choose to call it.
Where is the undeniable Proof.
We can see or test.

I am looking for real Facts.
Not someone's Beliefs.

I clearly take it you are a Believer & that is good for you.
Those answers work for you as a believer.

They wouldn't stand up in a court of law
Or as scientific evidence.

I need hard evidence.
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 10:16:04 AM »

I appreciate you answering.

I am not enlightened though.
Not one of your answers is in any way Fact
Those answers could be applied to any imaginary
Thing whatever we choose to call it.
Where is the undeniable Proof.
We can see or test.

I am looking for real Facts.
Not someone's Beliefs.

I clearly take it you are a Believer & that is good for you.
Those answers work for you as a believer.

They wouldn't stand up in a court of law
Or as scientific evidence.

I need hard evidence.

Requiring evidence of the supernatural to be validated under strict scientific terms that apply to the natural is a category mistake.

When validating God's existence and who he is you do so according to his terms as outlined in his inspired scripture, you listen to testimonies of believers, you seek the Lord in prayer.

We have historical proof of Jesus' life and ministry, archeological proof of biblical people and places, manuscript proof of biblical reliability via the field of textual criticism, multiple independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life/death/resurrection, proof via logic (God as source of logic, TAG argument, Kalam Cosmological argument), extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry/death/resurrection, the ministry and death of Jesus' apostles after his ascension, the fulfillment of biblical prophecy spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment, the intelligent design of the universe, the utter improbability of the intricate structure of the universe without a designer and the testimonial evidence of millions and millions of Christ's followers today.  This isn't an exhaustive list either.

The problem with evidence is that our presuppositions and subjectivity often determine our judgment of evidence even prior to reviewing said evidence (that is if it's ever reviewed).  

If you enter the Christian worldview then you're addressing the divine, sovereign creator of all and he's not required by or subject to any demands.  In order to understand him we must be willing to submit to his terms and forgo our own.

Hope that is helpful.
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 01:24:39 PM »

Enlighten me please.
Where is God.?
What is God.?
What has God Created.?
What Does God do.?
Where can I see God.?
Who has God ever Helped.?
Which God is The God of Gods.?

Please answer in Facts & Specifics.

Not Scriptures / Not Thousands of years old here-say / Not suspend logical thought process / Not Faith.

Cold Hard indisputable Facts From The Here & Now.

Thanks.


There is no such evidence. If there was, believers would shout it from the rooftops.

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Man of Steel
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 04:06:14 PM »

There is no such evidence. If there was, believers would shout it from the rooftops.


I've been shouting at Getbig for 5 years.

Some have listened, most have not.  I pray for both, but especially those that don't.

Welcome to the religion board.
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illuminati
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2016, 04:09:47 PM »

Requiring evidence of the supernatural to be validated under strict scientific terms that apply to the natural is a category mistake.

When validating God's existence and who he is you do so according to his terms as outlined in his inspired scripture, you listen to testimonies of believers, you seek the Lord in prayer.

We have historical proof of Jesus' life and ministry, archeological proof of biblical people and places, manuscript proof of biblical reliability via the field of textual criticism, multiple independent attestations that agree closely on the facts of Jesus Christ's life/death/resurrection, proof via logic (God as source of logic, TAG argument, Kalam Cosmological argument), extra-biblical accounts that validate the historicity of Jesus Christ's ministry/death/resurrection, the ministry and death of Jesus' apostles after his ascension, the fulfillment of biblical prophecy spanning hundreds of years between initial prophecy and fulfillment, the intelligent design of the universe, the utter improbability of the intricate structure of the universe without a designer and the testimonial evidence of millions and millions of Christ's followers today.  This isn't an exhaustive list either.

The problem with evidence is that our presuppositions and subjectivity often determine our judgment of evidence even prior to reviewing said evidence (that is if it's ever reviewed).  

If you enter the Christian worldview then you're addressing the divine, sovereign creator of all and he's not required by or subject to any demands.  In order to understand him we must be willing to submit to his terms and forgo our own.


Hope that is helpful.








Thank you Man Of Steel for taking your time to do your best to answer my questions.
I clearly see you are a man of God & a believer and that is fine with me.

Unfortunately I do not have to submit to his ( god ) terms as I don't know them & he hasn't
Approached me with them, when & if he does we can have that discussion.

We live in 2016 & it's quite fair & logical to ask for factual proof.

I presume outside of your religious faith you do the same & ask / look
For factual proof when researching or investigating Things.

Or do you just take people's word as proof.
Otherwise your going to have an awful lot of Snake oil
& countless other useless items.

The world / Humans would not have evolved/ progressed with inventing
So many brilliant inventions & medications without Factual Proof.

Do you also believe in ghosts - spirits - haunting etc.

Also Trust Me & Believe what I Say as Truth & Honesty.
I Have A Bridge For Sale... 😃
No doubt you would require proof / want to see it.

Thanks Again
But if you are unable to state valid proof & facts
I have to conclude god doesn't exist.
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2016, 04:18:49 PM »


Thank you Man Of Steel for taking your time to do your best to answer my questions.
I clearly see you are a man of God & a believer and that is fine with me.

Unfortunately I do not have to submit to his ( god ) terms as I don't know them & he hasn't
Approached me with them, when & if he does we can have that discussion.

We live in 2016 & it's quite fair & logical to ask for factual proof.

I presume outside of your religious faith you do the same & ask / look
For factual proof when researching or investigating Things.

Or do you just take people's word as proof.
Otherwise your going to have an awful lot of Snake oil
& countless other useless items.

The world / Humans would not have evolved/ progressed with inventing
So many brilliant inventions & medications without Factual Proof.

Do you also believe in ghosts - spirits - haunting etc.

Also Trust Me & Believe what I Say as Truth & Honesty.
I Have A Bridge For Sale... 😃
No doubt you would require proof / want to see it.

Thanks Again
But if you are unable to state valid proof & facts
I have to conclude god doesn't exist.

It's not a problem.   A person has to be willing to follow the evidence and the commands of scripture.

I follow biological evidence to  biological conclusions.  Historical evidence for historical conclusions.  Archeological evidence for archeological conclusions.   Theological evidence for theological conclusions.   Sometimes a combination of evidence is followed.  Point is I investigate before I reach the conclusion and I investigate as is appropriate for the situation or conclusion.  I also fully consider the words of those that know better than I do about a topic.  If I'm told that a biological conclusion has specific requirements I don't demand evidence grounded in culinary arts.  I don't demand that doors requiring keys to be opened only be opened with toasters or unicorn blood because that's my personal preference.  And when my personal preferences aren't met I don't caprciously claim the conclusion in question is false because I refuse to abide by its terms.

Still your situation is not up to me....It's up to you to do your part.  I did mine and it lead me to Christ.

The gospel message thread is pinned up top of the board and I'm happy to discuss with you anytime.  Give it a read....takes less than a minute.

You should definitely read John's gospel,  Acts and Romans in scripture.   Just some suggestions....have a good night.
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illuminati
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2016, 04:31:25 PM »

It's not a problem.   A person has to be willing to follow the evidence and the commands of scripture.

I follow biological evidence to  biological conclusions.  Historical evidence for historical conclusions.  Archeological evidence for archeological conclusions.   Theological evidence for theological conclusions.   Sometimes a combination of evidence is followed.  Point is I investigate before I reach the conclusion and I investigate as is appropriate for the situation or conclusion.  I also fully consider the words of those that know better than I do about a topic.  If I'm told that a biological conclusion has specific requirements I don't demand evidence grounded in culinary arts.  I don't demand that doors requiring keys to be opened only be opened with toasters or unicorn blood because that's my personal preference.  And when my personal preferences aren't met I don't caprciously claim the conclusion in question is false because I refuse to abide by its terms.

Still your situation is not up to me....It's up to you to do your part.  I did mine and it lead me to Christ.

The gospel message thread is pinned up top of the board and I'm happy to discuss with you anytime.  Give it a read....takes less than a minute.

You should definitely read John's gospel,  Acts and Romans in scripture.   Just some suggestions....have a good night.







It is late 11.30 here in the UK & I'm off to sleep.
I will read those suggestions if I have time tomorrow
And will post any questions or comments if I have any.

Thanks & may your God be with you.
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 05:04:33 PM »

I've been shouting at Getbig for 5 years.

Some have listened, most have not.  I pray for both, but especially those that don't.

Welcome to the religion board.

I am happy you edited your message to remove that sense of contempt.

Thank you kindly for the prayers, however, they are irrelevant to me. They cannot influence my life in any way whatsoever.
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 07:53:38 PM »

I am happy you edited your message to remove that sense of contempt.

Thank you kindly for the prayers, however, they are irrelevant to me. They cannot influence my life in any way whatsoever.
It read to harsh so I changed it.

Why would you post on the religion board?
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2016, 10:23:43 AM »

Enlighten me please.
Where is God.?
What is God.?
What has God Created.?
What Does God do.?
Where can I see God.?
Who has God ever Helped.?
Which God is The God of Gods.?

Please answer in Facts & Specifics.

Not Scriptures / Not Thousands of years old here-say / Not suspend logical thought process / Not Faith.

Cold Hard indisputable Facts From The Here & Now.

Thanks.


God is a concept.
Feel free to add as many attributes as you like.
 Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2016, 12:26:19 PM »

It read to harsh so I changed it.

Why would you post on the religion board?

I assure you there is nothing persecutorial behind it. I saw an interesting question and replied to it.
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2016, 02:21:28 PM »

I assure you there is nothing persecutorial behind it. I saw an interesting question and replied to it.

Seems beneath you posting on the religion board.....well based on your recent comments.  

It's like I mentioned yesterday I knew you would find you way down here like all the other atheists do after confrontations with me on the G&O.  And here's another in OB1...."randomly" and almost immediately makes his first post on the religion board after his theist encounter on the G&O.

I knew as soon as I posted on the G&O on the split "children" thread today you'd be right back here....and here you are.  See post stats below.  OB1 has less volume than you so his first and only religion posts registers among his top 10 board posts.  You have more volume so your couple of religion board posts don't even register.  I've been on this board solidly for 5 years.  I've modded it for about 4 of those.....I know what's up.

It isn't condenscension....it's experience.  It's another reason I "write paragraphs" to atheist one line objections.   I've written volumes over time....I have a ton of material I draw from all the time....cut and paste....cut and paste....over and over...same objections, different folks.  90% of the time I just know what's coming because I've done it so many times before.  That 10% of the time when something new arises I end up adding that new material with what's already compiled and then begin reusing it again and again.   For example, Captain Freedom introduced something new recently and we discussed it.  From that I'll save and refine my words and have it ready for the next person that finds that same objection on www.atheist.com and posts it here.


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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2016, 02:34:34 PM »

Not sure what all that proves Roll Eyes

I am not above posting on the religious board, but I am above getting into fights with believers, even though it validates all my arguments. I see no reason to fuel the strong need of believers to feel superior and persecuted for their faith.
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2016, 03:05:44 PM »

I am happy you edited your message to remove that sense of contempt.

Thank you kindly for the prayers, however, they are irrelevant to me. They cannot influence my life in any way whatsoever.

MOS is notorious for this. Harshness and contempt, then will edit his post.  Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2016, 06:06:13 PM »

If something doesn't read appropriately then I change it so it does.  
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illuminati
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2016, 04:25:37 PM »

It's not a problem.   A person has to be willing to follow the evidence and the commands of scripture.

The gospel message thread is pinned up top of the board and I'm happy to discuss with you anytime.  Give it a read....takes less than a minute.

You should definitely read John's gospel,  Acts and Romans in scripture.   Just some suggestions....have a good night.








I have read the gospel message thread.
And have read some of the quotes from acts & Romans

All good words to live by.

I respect you have Strong Faith & Belief
And can see the quotes in scripture supporting & helping you.

I kind of would like to Believe - only I don't see / find the proof
Or evidence of a god.
Let alone which god. As there are so many religions all claiming to be the one.

I look at all the horror/ death/ destruction in the world carried out in the name of god/ religion.
People all through history doing this because their god is the true god.
All the Horrible Paedophile Men of god in churches & the cover ups by the church.

The constant changing of what the Bible says or means.
Now it's OK to be a queer - 2 men to marry - women priest - etc etc

Where in the bible does it say change what you want when it's no longer suitable
Or fashionable.

And there is supposedly a all seeing god who just sits there and let's all this carnage
Go on in his name.
Because the perpetrators will get their divine retribution when they are dead.
Fat lot of good that is to all the people killed & maimed - family's torn apart.

How about he does something to all those Sickos in the here & now.
As that is where it is happening & has always happened.

No one out of the countless billions who have gone before has returned or appeared
And Said - Hey it's Good when your Dead - All The Sickos & Scumbags Do get their comuppence .

Why or how we got to be here is really of little importance in the grand scheme of the universe
As we are probably less than a Grain of sand in size in comparison lost on the vast amount of desserts & beaches on this planet.

But we Have a god just to look after us.
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2016, 09:35:23 AM »

Enlighten me please.
Where is God.?

Some say everywhere, and yet some believe on a earthly piece of furniture remnant of a pre-19th century king.


Quote
What is God.?

Maker of everything, ruler of everything.


Quote
What has God Created.?

Everything.


Quote
What Does God do.?
Not much or everything.  When a 3 year old girl gets raped an tortured then god is working in mysterious ways.  When a quarterback wins the Superbowl some players think god helped them.  When something bad happens to someone it must have "happened for a reason" that god knows.  If there is beautiful sunrise then god is good.  If a earthquake happens an many die, god is punishing everyone, even the innocent people.


Quote
Where can I see God.?

You can't your face will burn.

Quote
Who has God ever Helped.?

Anyone who has had good fortune and believes in him.

Quote
Which God is The God of Gods.?

Yahweh. 

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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2016, 08:32:11 PM »

God is everywhere and is everything. You (me) are a bubble in the ocean. God is the ocean and the sky above. Our sole purpose is to dissolve that bubble membrane and be fully asorbed into God.  How this happens varies be the dogma of specific religions. There is only 1 God and she is everything. She helps everybody but life is hard so u have to be tough (mentally and physically). In order to toughen you up God allows there to be trials. You don't get tough beating up babies. So the challenges will be difficult

There is only 1 God.

And you see him every time you see an act of goodness or beauty. If you're waiting for God to come down looking like an English hippie, that probably isn't going to happen
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2016, 08:43:21 PM »

God is a concept.
Feel free to add as many attributes as you like.
 Smiley


He has the face of a young Robert Redford, the mind of Albert Einstein, the body of Arnold and the cock of Lexington Steele.
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