Re: having kids....

[OB1]

Your mom just pm'd the  mods to delete this post. 

HAHA 

[Yamcha]

[Raymondo]

Ok, so you have no previous prayer life, no previous form of worship, no previous study of scripture, no personal surrender to God as outlined in scripture and essentially no previous experience with God whatsoever.

What you have presented in response to my requests are religious cliches, logical fallacies, articles on religious research (of which you took no part in), presuppositions and conclusions grounded in your uninformed, subjective opinions.  This is the essence of your absolute statement that God does not exist and is superstition.

This like telling someone that they cannot have an opinion on Scientology because they haven't been trying to reach Operating Thetan level. It would be absurd to take the Bible seriously because it is the folklore of ancient times.

These are universally accepted truths. Religiosity rates have been falling across the civilized world because people come to realise them.

God does not exist. It is a superstition.

[Man of Steel]

This like telling someone that they cannot have an opinion on Scientology because they haven't been trying to reach Operating Thetan level. It would be absurd to take the Bible seriously because it is the folklore of ancient times.

These are universally accepted truths. Religiosity rates have been falling across the civilized world because people come to realise them.

God does not exist. It is a superstition.

Of course you can have opinions.  Everyone has an opinion.  This is the essence of subjectivity.

So the bible is absurd because it is ancient?   Well thought out.

These are universally accepted truths?  I disagree.

Really, that's it?  I'm moving on LOL.

[Raymondo]

Of course you can have opinions.  Everyone has an opinion.  This is the essence of subjectivity.

So the bible is absurd because it is ancient?   Well thought out.

These are universally accepted truths?  I disagree.

Really, that's it?  I'm moving on LOL.

There is no empirical evidence for the existence of God. Therefore God does not exist.

The "articles" I quoted are studies published in peer reviewed journals. These journals use something called the scientific method.

The bible was written by illiterate peasants thousands of years ago. It is just the folklore of the times. Its value is purely historical.

You might as well pray to the JuJu of the Great Mountain or to Apollo the Sun God. They are just as valid as the God of any religion.

[SF1900]

There is no empirical evidence for the existence of God. Therefore God does not exist.

The "articles" I quoted are studies published in peer reviewed journals. These journals use something called the scientific method.

The bible was written by illiterate peasants thousands of years ago. It is just the folklore of the times. Its value is purely historical.

You might as well pray to the JuJu of the Great Mountain or to Apollo the Sun God. They are just as valid as the God of any religion.

And this is where the debate ends. You want to prove God from a scientific method, i.e., in a "lab." (I agree with you on this).

People who are religious have faith, and do not need empirical evidence. Most religious people will tell you it requires FAITH to believe. That's fine, but faith in no way indicates objective truth. In order to identify any form of objective truth, you need to rely on the best method possible, which is the scientific method.

[Man of Steel]

There is no empirical evidence for the existence of God. Therefore God does not exist.

The "articles" I quoted are studies published in peer reviewed journals. Over there they use something called the scientific method.

The bible was written by illiterate peasants thousands of years ago. It is just the folklore of the times. Its value is purely historical.

You might as well pray to the JuJu of the Great Mountain or to Apollo the Sun God. They are just as valid as the God of any religion.

Ok, I'll play along....

I am empirical evidence....you're conversing with evidence.

How exactly did illiterate folks read and write?

How is the bible folklore (traditions of fictional stories) and history (a chronology of verified events) at the same time?  

[Raymondo]

And this is where the debate ends. You want to prove God from a scientific method, i.e., in a "lab." (I agree with you on this).

People who are religious have faith, and do not need empirical evidence. Most religious people will tell you it requires FAITH to believe. That's fine, but faith in no way indicates objective truth. In order to identify any form of objective truth, you need to rely on the best method possible, which is the scientific method.

Exactly, you might as well make your own gods and they will be just as valid as any other god.

[Howard]

I know this is the common perception the pet industry wants you to think, but the fact is dogs are seen as a commodity, so they are bred with that in mind and the excess simply destroyed, this cycle repeats ad nauseum. So you may think you are saving a life when in fact you are participating in an industry that is setup in such a way that countless healthy dogs being killed is part of their business model.  Put simply for you to own a dog many others must die, hardly the act of a wonderful human being.  This is why PETA advocate against pet ownership, for the only real way to prevent these countless unnecessary dog deaths is for humans to stop viewing dogs as a commodity.  Hope this helps.

http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/pets/

I think the fact human beings took a majestic self sufficient animal like the wolf and turned them into helpless dependant creatures like a Shih Tzu is an example of the worst of human nature, not the best.

1. The gist of my post was to be taken as a  tongue in cheek JOKE.

2. I always adopt shelter /rescue dogs. I refuse to help perpetuate the breeding-puppy mill insanity.

[SF1900]

Exactly, you might as well make your own gods and they will be just as valid as any other god.

Atheists demand empirical evidence under strict scientific conditions. Theists cannot provide this evidence. Thus, we reach a stalemate.

As Bertrand Russell, "When there is good reason to believe in something, you believe in it. When there is good reason not to believe in something, you don't. When you're uncertain, the answer then becomes, 'I don't know'"

[Raymondo]

Atheists demand empirical evidence under strict scientific conditions. Theists cannot provide this evidence. Thus, we reach a stalemate.

As Bertrand Russell, "When there is good reason to believe in something, you believe in it. When there is good reason not to believe in something, you don't. When you're uncertain, the answer then becomes, 'I don't know'"

Bertrand Russell was great. Any deist would benefit immensely from reading him.

[Howard]

Well, I didn't mean to suggest anything about a guarantee for a great life.  In fact, as believers in Christ we're promised ridicule and hardship....notice the replies that immediately followed my previous post.....par for the course stuff and I don't entertain it past this.  

What I did note was that love and enjoyment and of marriage and family is easy if grounded in God.  Our lives will be filled with trials and hardships, but how I respond to those trials and hardship first without God and then with God is so vastly different.

I think you took my rather brief reply a bit too literal.
I know well, that faith in GOD doesn't mean an easy life.
Faith always us all a path to follow when the going gets tough.

Here's my deal and you may reply with your 2 cents:

I don't drink booze , do rec drugs, smoke, gamble or screw around on my wife.
I'm not even tempted to do most of the so called "sinful" things.
While I have a retarded goofball persona on getbig, I lead a rather wholesome life.
Some here would find that boring, but, wtf, it's just me , being me.

I have faith in the existence of one omnipotent GOD , creator of the universe.
I'm not a Christian and don't follow any one organized religion.
While I've read many bible verses, I don't believe that Jesus Christ was GOD incarnate.
I sincerely believe  the virgin birth and resurrection was a myth established to give higher authority to the early Christian sects.

I'm no biblical scholar but I have done a good bit of study and prayerful reflection on this.
My final, firm conclusion was many ( not all ) of the BIBLE versus and words of Jesus are timeless spiritual and moral wisdom. BUT despite being a great moral philosopher, Jesus was just a man, like the rest of humanity.

[Man of Steel]

Bertrand Russell was great. Any deist would benefit immensely from reading him.

Demanding empirical evidence of the supernatural to be validated under strict scientific terms for the natural is a category mistake.

When validating God's existence and who he is you do so according to his terms as outlined in his inspired scripture.

[Man of Steel]

I think you took my rather brief reply a bit too literal.
I know well, that faith in GOD doesn't mean an easy life.
Faith always us all a path to follow when the going gets tough.

Here's my deal and you may reply with your 2 cents:

I don't drink booze , do rec drugs, smoke, gamble or screw around on my wife.
I'm not even tempted to do most of the so called "sinful" things.
While I have a retarded goofball persona on getbig, I lead a rather wholesome life.
Some here would find that boring, but, wtf, it's just me , being me.

I have faith in the existence of one omnipotent GOD , creator of the universe.
I'm not a Christian and don't follow any one organized religion.
While I've read many bible verses, I don't believe that Jesus Christ was GOD incarnate.
I sincerely believe  the virgin birth and resurrection was a myth established to give higher authority to the early Christian sects.

I'm no biblical scholar but I have done a good bit of study and prayerful reflection on this.
My final, firm conclusion was many ( not all ) of the BIBLE versus and words of Jesus are timeless spiritual and moral wisdom. BUT despite being a great moral philosopher, Jesus was just a man, like the rest of humanity.

I appreciate this reply very much.

Why do you believe Jesus as God incarnate is false?

Do you believe it reasonable that Jesus' disciples would go to their deaths perpetuating a lie for the sake of power they would never achieve?

[SF1900]

Bertrand Russell was great. Any deist would benefit immensely from reading him.

Don't let the theists fool you, and tell you that you do not need to prove God under strict scientific conditions. And that the only evidence you need is outlined in scripture, as determined by God. Its a good ploy, in order for them to attempt to prove their God, without actually proving it.

[Raymondo]

You cannot validate the existence of something according to its own "special rules". Such a validation would be tautological, i.e. it would be true under any conditions, since the conditions are set by the entity to be validated. There would be no conditions under which God would not exist.

I think this statement more than any other displays the utter absurdity of religion.

[Kim Jong Bob]

lål

fixed it for you buddy

[Man of Steel]

You cannot validate the existence of something according to its own "special rules". Such a validation would be tautological, i.e. it would be true under any conditions, since the conditions are set by the entity to be validated. There would be no conditions under which God would not exist.

I think this statement more than any other displays the utter absurdity of religion.

You're not understanding and tautology is often cited as excuse not to pursue God.  The commands of scripture aren't a twisting of phraseology or a defining of a situation or a person by the essence of thing called into question.  That's a presupposition, but more than that it's simple ignorance of scripture.....it's not what I mean by coming to God according to his terms as outlined in scripture.

When you enter the Christian worldview you're acknowledging a divine, creating, transcendent, sovereign God of all that is....let that sink in.  

Now, if the divine, sovereign God outlines his terms for relationship and special revelation in scripture and you want to understand that God better then there's no room for argument - other than the futility in demanding inapplicable terms of your own invention.

[Kim Jong Bob]

No offence (lål lots of offence" but can you "guys" start a new religion thread and keep debating there?

[Raymondo]

You're not understanding and tautology is often cited as excuse not to pursue God.  The commands of scripture aren't a twisting of phraseology or defining something by the essence of itself.  That's a presupposition, but more than that it's simple ignorance of scripture.

When you enter the Christian worldview you're acknowledging a divine, creating, transcendent, sovereign God of all that is....let that sink in.  

Now, if the divine, sovereign God outlines his terms for relationship and special revelation in scripture and you want to understand that God better then there's no room for argument - other than the futility in demanding inapplicable terms of your own invention.

Precisely. I have been saying this all along.

Religion fosters ignorance and kills understanding.

The more religious a person, the more likely they are not educated or intelligent, as shown previously.

[Man of Steel]

No offence (lål lots of offence" but can you "guys" start a new religion thread and keep debating there?

Almost no one goes to the religion board for discussion.  I know because I mod it and I've tried repeatedly to make exactly what you asked to happen.

[Raymondo]

Almost no one goes to the religion board for discussion.  I know because I mod it and I've tried repeatedly to make exactly what you asked to happen.

Yes, because almost no one is interested in religion.

[OB1]

Yes, because almost no one is interested in religion.

Religion was and is still used to control the masses.
On some people it just doesn't work.

[Man of Steel]

Precisely. I have been saying this all along.

Religion fosters ignorance and kills understanding.

You're not grasping why "there's no room for argument".  You're simply applying that idea on to the theist (me) and then justifying my "inability to reason" with a conclusion taken out of context.  Despite the fact that I've been reasoning everything you've said up to this point and I'm still awaiting response to some of my questions.  

Point is, I have nothing to do with that statement.  You're employing a red herring tactic.  A convenience of distraction for the sake of making your argument instead of dealing with the argument at hand.

"there's no room for argument" applies to the "divine, creating, transcendent, sovereign God of all that is".  If you're in the Christian worldview you must acknowledge the focus of that worldview.  That said, why would a sovereign God, who's allowed you every freedom in his life, have to submit to your further demands when you step on his divine turf?

It's illogical and self-indulgent.  

When you approach God you do so in humble surrender, not with demands.  

[Man of Steel]

Yes, because almost no one is interested in religion.

It's always those "not interested in religion" that have the most to say about religion.