Re: having kids....

[Raymondo]

It's always those "not interested in religion" that have the most to say about religion.   

You are pretty much the only one who initiates such "debates". And you've written paragraphs to my one liners.

The absurdity of religion can be proven in a few simple statements.

[Howard]

Again, there is religious research from other parties.   There are many brilliant religious folks.

Tell me about how you came to that understanding.

Also, tell me about your former prayer life and how you used to worship the Lord?

If you would, tell me about your former study of scripture.

Issac Newton, founder of modern physics was a devote man of faith and ordained Anglican (protestant) minister.
Newton said ( paraphrase) ; " I wanted to understand how GOD, the father, made the Universe work."

Thus, I see no ignorance in having faith.

FYI, in my humble opinion, it seems a lot more arrogant to be a total atheist.

[Raymondo]

When you approach God you do so in humble surrender, not with demands.  

True. If you do it in any other way, you will quickly come to the conclusion that God almost certainly does not exist.

Therefore, "special rules", "scriptures", "surrender" and the like.

[Howard]

I appreciate this reply very much.

Why do you believe Jesus as God incarnate is false?

Do you believe it reasonable that Jesus' disciples would go to their deaths perpetuating a lie for the sake of power they would never achieve?

The lie wasn't actually perpetuated by the direct apostles that lived with Jesus.
The 4 gospels  ( Mathew, Mark, Luke and John)were only written down 70-110 yrs AFTER the death of Jesus.
St Paul was converted by faith ( aprox) 30 yrs after the death of Jesus on the road to Damascus.

The Gnostic Gospels from the Dead Sea scrolls are accurate 1st hand accounts from the same time period as Jesus. They don't alwys agree with everything in the 4 gospels.

It wasn't until 300 AD when emperor Constitine canonized the New Testament we know today and officially declared Jesus as God incarnate.

FYI, it still comes down to faith but it's not as simple and direct as many Christians think.

God Bless,   Howard

[Man of Steel]

You are pretty much the only one who initiates such "debates". And you've written paragraphs to my one liners.

The absurdity of religion can be proven in a few simple statements.

What I initially do is share the gospel message and just ignore the hateful comments, but when they persist then I start responding and asking questions and engaging.  

I know it would be much more entertaining if I was the typical "Christian" that gets insulted and almost instantly abandons their witness for Christ and begins cursing at you.  Or worse, rolls over into the fetal position sucking their thumb because they don't know how to respond or what to say in response to the "scary atheist man".

Sorry, not my style.

[OB1]

All these religious debates are useless.
No party will move a tenth of an inch from their position.

[Man of Steel]

All these religious debates are useless.
No party will move a tenth of an inch from their position.

When I engage with atheists I'm never looking to convert them.  I'm presenting the theist position for the reader that may not know or understand God.

[Raymondo]

What I initially do is share the gospel message and just ignore the hateful comments, but when they persist then I start responding and asking questions and engaging.  

I know it would be much more entertaining if I was the typical "Christian" that gets insulted and almost instantly abandons their witness for Christ and begins cursing at you.  Or worse, rolls over into the fetal position sucking their thumb because they don't know how to respond or what to say in response to the "scary atheist man".

Sorry, not my style.

You initially spread the gospel, but you're just as invested in broadcasting your identity. You constantly post stories about your life and your family, with the fervour of a man who absolutely needs to prove that religion has made a positive difference in his life. I think you have good reasons for doing so, but I will not speculate as to what they might be, because this is not a personal debate. It tends to become one because you feel unsettled by the fact that:

1) God cannot be proved to exist to a reasonable-minded person, because God needs to be accepted a priori, with no argument, no examination and with the total shutdown of man's rational faculties.
2) The above fosters ignorance and kills understanding.
3) Therefore, religion is a highly absurd world view.

[nzmusclemonster]

There is no empirical evidence for the existence of God. Therefore God does not exist.

The "articles" I quoted are studies published in peer reviewed journals. These journals use something called the scientific method.

The bible was written by illiterate peasants thousands of years ago. It is just the folklore of the times. Its value is purely historical.

You might as well pray to the JuJu of the Great Mountain or to Apollo the Sun God. They are just as valid as the God of any religion.

Add to that, the Bible was written decades after "jesus" died.

[loco]

Sooooooo...to have kids, or not to have kids?  That is the question.

[Howard]

Sooooooo...to have kids, or not to have kids?  That is the question.

I just birthed a massive fart after a labor intensive straining.

[SF1900]

Sooooooo...to have kids, or not to have kids?  That is the question.

Its based on the context.

As Nietzsche said, “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”

[SuperTed]

Two types of threads that are bound to be over 10 pages -

1) Religious threads
2) Threads about getting married/having children

We've had a combination of both in this one.

[DroppingPlates]

Have you seen Man of Steel?  Should you ever meet him, he is perfectly capable of snapping you like a twig, but he won't because he's a Man of God.  

I was addressing this 'god' creature, 'loco'

[Man of Steel]

You initially spread the gospel, but you're just as invested in broadcasting your identity. You constantly post stories about your life and your family, with the fervour of a man who absolutely needs to prove that religion has made a positive difference in his life. I think you have good reasons for doing so, but I will not speculate as to what they might be, because this is not a personal debate. It tends to become one because you feel unsettled by the fact that:

1) God cannot be proved to exist to a reasonable-minded person, because God needs to be accepted a priori, with no argument, no examination and with the total shutdown of man's rational faculties.
2) The above fosters ignorance and kills understanding.
3) Therefore, religion is a highly absurd world view.

I demonstrate my faith repeatedly because of consistent attacks upon my faith.  I start nothing....my detractors get annoyed because I often finish what they start.  I give all glory to God!!

My position is supported in scripture by exactly what is written under my avatar:

1 Peter 3:15
15 Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it.

I repeat the exact same message over and over and over in my posts: "if you want to understand God you must come humbly to him in surrender as outlined in scripture".  

That is the answer.  

Earlier you said there's no empirical evidence for God.  I told you I'm the living embodiment of empirical evidence.  Then SF moved the goalposts for you and said there's no empirical evidence for God that will be accepted because it can't be subjected to scientific methodology.  I indicated that demand is a category mistake, that it's logically fallacious.  You replied with a plea of tautology to then avoid having to pursue God.  You want your demands for the divine, sovereign God to be acknowledged and you refuse to abide by God's terms....simple as that.  Now you're using a plea of "a priori" and again want to demand the ability to observe and test God according to your standards because "obviously" there's no analytical thought on the part of the believer.  Nonsense.  You suppress God and will use any rational - logical or illogical - to avoid meeting him head on.

I again return to the simple idea that ""if you want to understand God you must come humbly to him in surrender as outlined in scripture".  The answer is in front of you and at your fingertips and you refuse to do anything about it and would rather invest your time into reasoning God out of your existence and insulting believers.  

What's next?  David Hume?  Ayn Rand?

[SF1900]

lol at  moving the goal posts. No one moved anything.

You cannot provide empirical evidence under strict scientific conditions. Empirical evidence, as in the form of experimentation.

God cannot be proved under these conditions (according the scientific method). I have stated this a BILLION times on here.

The predominant mode of accepting a claim is proving whether it is repeatable under strict, scientific experimentation. This is the best way. Your God lies outside of these parameters, therefore I reject your God. Its quite simple.

I don't care about proving God on his terms or according to the bible. I only care about what can be proven under the most strictest experimentation.

I never moved the goal post, tubby. I have said this all along.

[Raymondo]

I demonstrate my faith repeatedly because of consistent attacks upon my faith.  I start nothing....my detractors get annoyed because I often finish what they start.  I give all glory to God!!

My position is supported in scripture by exactly what is written under my avatar:

1 Peter 3:15
15 Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it.

I repeat the exact same message over and over and over in my posts: "if you want to understand God you must come humbly to him in surrender as outlined in scripture".  

That is the answer.  

Earlier you said there's no empirical evidence for God.  I told you I'm the living embodiment of empirical evidence.  Then SF moved the goalposts for you and said there's no empirical evidence for God that will be accepted because it can't be subjected to scientific methodology.  I indicated that demand is a category mistake, that it's logically fallacious.  You replied with a plea of tautology to then avoid having to pursue God.  You want your demands for the divine, sovereign God to be acknowledged and you refuse to abide by God's terms....simple as that.  Now you're using a plea of "a priori" and again want to demand the ability to observe and test God according to your standards because "obviously" there's no analytical thought on the part of the believer.  Nonsense.  You suppress God and will use any rational - logical or illogical - to avoid meeting him head on.

I again return to the simple idea that ""if you want to understand God you must come humbly to him in surrender as outlined in scripture".  The answer is in front of you and at your fingertips and you refuse to do anything about it and would rather invest your time into reasoning God out of your existence and insulting believers.  

What's next?  David Hume?  Ayn Rand?

Here come the scriptures Bolded and in italics, too.

I am not surprised you take this personally, as any criticism of your worldview, must by necessity, be a criticism of you.

There is no God and I am not supressing anything. You cannot act on something that does not exist. You cannot prove the existence of God to a person who doesn't already believe in God, or as you put it, has "surrendered". The Muslims use a similar term, "submit". The dramatic tone is necessary because in order to believe in such a childish and absurd concept as God, you need to get rid of anything inside you that could oppose God. There is no room in religion for critical faculties, except the ones dictated by religion. If religious people were free to think as they pleased, they might change religion to something that does not resemble religion. This is the argument of the Great Inquisitor in Dostoevsky. Religious people must live and die happily in ignorance. The strong few who know the truth, the leaders of your church, sacrifice themselves to save their flock from the "world".

No goalposts have been moved because the message has been the same all along. God almost certainly does not exist and religion fosters ignorance.

[Grape Ape]

Thong maniac's inability to make his own decisions is causing a lot of rifts here.  Even I found myself exchanging insults with someone I've never even conversed with.  Which was fine because neither of us really cared, but that's besides the point - TM needs to weigh in on where he stands, since he's been silent since page 4.

[Howard]

Thong maniac's inability to make his own decisions is causing a lot of rifts here.  Even I found myself exchanging insults with someone I've never even conversed with.  Which was fine because neither of us really cared, but that's besides the point - TM needs to weigh in on where he stands, since he's been silent since page 4.

Having children with any woman can be a mixed bag regardless of how well intentioned or prepared.
BIG ARCH kinda backed into the whole daddy deal and seems quite happy (in his posted experience on it).

So, it can be this incredible, joyful albeit somewhat stressful and overwhelming experience.
That's the up side of parenting.

The reality is that 50% of all marriages end in divorce and most had kids during their marriage.
For most men this results to be tethered to some resentful, bitchy woman for the next 10-20 yrs .
Plus, you'll fork over some child support and alimony in the process.

I've observed plenty of beaten down men, meeting their former spouse to car pool or exchange kids at some McDonald's lot . The poor bastard looks stressed to the max and depressed. The kids are screaming for a Happy Meal and the ex-wife is a real McBitch. He trudges off with the diaper bag and various kid items for his 2x month weekend with daddy.

Yes, my dear getbiggers, having kids can be a joyful lifestyle for a few lucky ones.
Most end up like the divorced dad, getting kids for the weekend at the McDonald's from ex wife McBitch.

If it's worth that lifestyle, have at it.

[Primemuscle]

Newsflash Prime - this is getbig and that last "all anal" suggestion was an obvious JOKE.
Not all posts on getbig are serious or factual.

Hope this helps

I know this is Getbig. Regardless of what seems okay to post here, your "obvious joke" demeans your wife. Some folks have limits. You apparently do not.

[da_vinci]

Having children with any woman can be a mixed bag regardless of how well intentioned or prepared.
BIG ARCH kinda backed into the whole daddy deal and seems quite happy (in his posted experience on it).

So, it can be this incredible, joyful albeit somewhat stressful and overwhelming experience.
That's the up side of parenting.

The reality is that 50% of all marriages end in divorce and most had kids during their marriage.
For most men this results to be tethered to some resentful, bitchy woman for the next 10-20 yrs .
Plus, you'll fork over some child support and alimony in the process.

I've observed plenty of beaten down men, meeting their former spouse to car pool or exchange kids at some McDonald's lot . The poor bastard looks stressed to the max and depressed. The kids are screaming for a Happy Meal and the ex-wife is a real McBitch. He trudges off with the diaper bag and various kid items for his 2x month weekend with daddy.

Yes, my dear getbiggers, having kids can be a joyful lifestyle for a few lucky ones.
Most end up like the divorced dad, getting kids for the weekend at the McDonald's from ex wife McBitch.

If it's worth that lifestyle, have at it.

Howard, you should note one thing tho' - you have great genes and are a good looking man (no homo), for ppl like you there aren't really much issues in getting a partner at any age so the stress/fears of "oh my, I'm gonna end up alone" simply does not exist or have a lot less impact on these decisions. Most are analysing/looking at this thing from a wrong perspective, usualy emotionally based.

[da_vinci]

I know this is Getbig. Regardless of what seems okay to post here, your "obvious joke" demeans your wife. Some folks have limits. You apparently do not.

[Primemuscle]

Howard, you should note one thing tho' - you have great genes and are a good looking man (no homo), for ppl like you there aren't really much issues in getting a partner at any age so the stress/fears of "oh my, I'm gonna end up alone" simply does not exist or have a lot less impact on these decisions. Most are analysing/looking at this thing from a wrong perspective, usualy emotionally based.

There was a lengthy digression going on in this thread. Thanks for getting it back on track.

[Man of Steel]

Here come the scriptures Bolded and in italics, too.

I am not surprised you take this personally, as any criticism of your worldview, must by necessity, be a criticism of you.

There is no God and I am not supressing anything. You cannot act on something that does not exist. You cannot prove the existence of God to a person who doesn't already believe in God, or as you put it, has "surrendered". The Muslims use a similar term, "submit". The dramatic tone is necessary because in order to believe in such a childish and absurd concept as God, you need to get rid of anything inside you that could oppose God. There is no room in religion for critical faculties, except the ones dictated by religion. If religious people were free to think as they pleased, they might change religion to something that does not resemble religion. This is the argument of the Great Inquisitor in Dostoevsky. Religious people must live and die happily in ignorance. The strong few who know the truth, the leaders of your church, sacrifice themselves to save their flock from the "world".

No goalposts have been moved because the message has been the same all along. God almost certainly does not exist and religion fosters ignorance.

I have no shame of scripture whatsoever.   Why would it be any surprise that a Christian would quote scripture?   Why would it be any surprise that a Christian would take personally attacks upon his faith and that of Jesus Christ?  It's not as if you've discovered some new truth here LOL.

I know the gospel message makes you recoil and that scripture, Jesus Christ and the cross is an offense to you, but know I will not stop representing Christ or posting scripture.  

FYI ~ Islam means "surrender" and Muslim means "one that surrenders"  

[Primemuscle]

I have no shame of scripture whatsoever.   Why would it be any surprise that a Christian would quote scripture?   Why would it be any surprise that a Christian would take personally attacks upon his faith and that of Jesus Christ?  It's not as if you've discovered some new truth here LOL.

I know the gospel message makes you recoil and that scripture, Jesus Christ and the cross is an offense to you, but know I will not stop representing Christ or posting scripture.  

FYI ~ Islam means "surrender" and Muslim means "one that surrenders"  

Question, do you have kids? If not, do you want them?