Re: having kids....

[da_vinci]

Glad you boiled down into one sentence because I was losing track of the actual point.

Can't really counter the bolded part, because I haven't seen any studies or data on "people who would prefer everything stay the same for them but had kids anyway".  But I'm sure those people exist.

Im talking about people like me, who consciously think about it, not about clueless, driven automatically by animalistic nature.

[da_vinci]

First off, its difficult to put a definition on what "freedom" actually is. Its a very subjective term.

With that said, and for the sake of this statement, lets pretend that freedom equates to being able to do what you want to do, when you want to do it.

With that in mind, its quite obvious that people without a wife and kids are more "free." You get to sleep-in when you want, take vacations when you want, randomly go out without any burden (without having to finding a babysitter). Basically, you only have to answer to yourself. If we go with my above definition of being "free", I do not know how anyone can even attempt to argue that parents are more free than single people. Its just not the case. They aren't. It doesn't mean its necessarily a bad thing to be less "free," but its just the way it is. As someone who is single, I can just leave my house and go anywhere I want. That is not the case if you have a 6 month old in a crib. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that single people are happier than married people with kids. I am not saying this. I am just pointing to the objective fact that, on average, single people are more "free" when compared to parents (if you equate being free with my definition above).

That's exactly what I was saying. You can't eat the pie and have it too, simple as that.

[Grape Ape]

Im talking about people like me, who consciously think about it, not about clueless, driven automatically by animalistic nature.

And my point has been there as those like you were in similar circumstances, who thought about, did it, and it works.  And they're not beta, weak, stupid, etc...

[Grape Ape]

That's exactly what I was saying. You can't eat the pie and have it too, simple as that.

But you can have a different flavor of the pie to eat, can enjoy it, and still sample the old pie, even moreso as the children grow up.

[SF1900]

But you can have a different flavor of the pie to eat, can enjoy it, and still sample the old pie, even moreso as the children grow up.

The problem with this whole conversation, as in the case with most conversations, is not addressing the most important thing: CONTEXT.

The context is what it important. When you have little babies at home or young children, the parent, in my opinion, is definitely less "free" than the single person. I do not even think that's debatable. But once the context changes (and child grows older), the parent is more "free" to do what they want to do. For a single person, the context matters less when it comes to being "free." A parents freedom is more contingent on the context of the child (age, developmental level, sickness, health, etc).

[SF1900]

That's exactly what I was saying. You can't eat the pie and have it too, simple as that.

Its difficult to do both. Its not impossible, especially as the child grows older. But during the formative years, parents are definitely less "free" in the strict sense.

[da_vinci]

And my point has been there as those like you were in similar circumstances, who thought about, did it, and it works.  And they're not beta, weak, stupid, etc...

Yes of course, plenty of scenarios in life, not all are equal and not all are suited for everyone, however you look at it. There are parents who leave their kids and "it works", even tho they thought they never would do it, so yeah... I guess we are stating the obvious here.

[da_vinci]

But you can have a different flavor of the pie to eat, can enjoy it, and still sample the old pie, even moreso as the children grow up.

What if I want to eat my favorite pie all the time? Should I do otherwise just because someone else does it? I don't really get your drift on this one. It sounds like you want to say it is compulsory or something..

[Grape Ape]

What if I want to eat my favorite pie all the time? Should I do otherwise just because someone else does it? I don't really get your drift on this one. It sounds like you want to say it is compulsory or something..

No, you should never do something because someone else does something.  I never said that.  What I was trying to say was that...........actually, just saw the post below....we're going in circles.

Yes of course, plenty of scenarios in life, not all are equal and not all are suited for everyone, however you look at it. There are parents who leave their kids and "it works", even tho they thought they never would do it, so yeah... I guess we are stating the obvious here.

Yeah, I think we can wrap this one up.

[da_vinci]

No, you should never do something because someone else does something.  I never said that.  What I was trying to say was that...........actually, just saw the post below....we're going in circles.




Yeah, I think we can wrap this one up.

I guess we have an agreement - shit happens, life happens, kids happen, much can happen. Idk about other people, but I've had a clear vision of my life since I was a teen, and Im pretty much livin' it. If I won't have kids ever - couldn't care less. If I will (I would prefer not to) - I will make it work somehow.

[Grape Ape]

I guess we have an agreement - shit happens, life happens, kids happen, much can happen. Idk about other people, but I've had a clear vision of my life since I was a teen, and Im pretty much livin' it. If I won't have kids ever - couldn't care less. If I will (I would prefer not to) - I will make it work somehow.

Boom....we are in agreement.

We have made getbig history.

[da_vinci]

Boom....we are in agreement.

We have made getbig history.

Ten pages, thousands of words................... .....was def. worth it.

[SuperTed]

Who cares? Just live the life you wish. Seems like a lot of posters are trying to convince themselves they are making the right life choices more than anything else.

[Howard]

From what I've red here - Howard is pretty damn lucky fella with not much worries in life. Quite a contrary from most guys his age that I know. I think he's doing something right, no bitterness, no anger, he actually sounds happier than me and I'm pretty damn happy with my life, that tells something too.

Thanks and in fairness to others, all that matters is they made the right choice for THEM.

[Howard]

well then she is together with a egocentric douchebag...most couples with kids i know make it work either by taking turns or go together with the kid...im a single dad and have no problems on my week to find time to go to the gym and its easier when you are two. Sure you cant go 2 times a day 6 days per week but its not impossible to stay in shape just because you get kids...and the older the kids get the easier it gets to find time


Quite easy fix just up your dose with 1.5 for every gymhour you have to sacrifice

Good point and for those that enjoy being parents a little creative use of time can fix a lot.

The one things that chaps my ass is that MANY (not all) parents , feel that having children is somewhat inevitable .
Their default setting of having kids , is what annoys me most.

For example, I love being married and have been more then once to prove it LOL.
BUT, I've advised plenty of younger guys to avoid it.

I see no REQUIREMENT for a happy, productive career man to ever get married and/or have kids.
I've told several younger guys to AVOID getting married , since they obviously enjoy their single lifestyle.

Make no mistake, I think every MAN should have a job, make their own $$ and move out of mom's basement  .
BUT, as long as he takes care of himself, he shouldn't feel guilty or inadequate if he doesn't get married or have kids.

[BBSSchlemiel]

Good point and for those that enjoy being parents a little creative use of time can fix a lot.

The one things that chaps my ass is that MANY (not all) parents , feel that having children is somewhat inevitable .
Their default setting of having kids , is what annoys me most.

For example, I love being married and have been more then once to prove it LOL.
BUT, I've advised plenty of younger guys to avoid it.

I see no REQUIREMENT for a happy, productive career man to ever get married and/or have kids.
I've told several younger guys to AVOID getting married , since they obviously enjoy their single lifestyle.

Make no mistake, I think every MAN should have a job, make their own $$ and move out of mom's basement  .
BUT, as long as he takes care of himself, he shouldn't feel guilty or inadequate if he doesn't get married or have kids.

Fair points, but taken to the extreme, this can lead to negative population growth, especially amongst those who DO have the intelligence and good genes to pass off onto future generations. Negative population growth is bad for a nation.

[Man of Steel]

Do I sense some questionable undertones there?

I stand by my words 100%.   People will read into my words whatever they want regardless of my intention.

Based on the words of some in reference to why they don't want children I support that decision.   They should not have children...they aren't parent material and children deserve and need better parents.

The atheist bunch are playing up this "condescension" angle nonsense because yesterday Raymondo posted randomly on the religion board.  I initially replied to him because most atheists that try to argue with me on the G&O often follow that up with their first religion board post.  I told him I expected as much, decided it read to harsh, changed it, indicated as much and that was that.  They're taking that bit of nothing and attempting to make something out of it....that's it.

[da_vinci]

Fair points, but taken to the extreme, this can lead to negative population growth, especially amongst those who DO have the intelligence and good genes to pass off onto future generations. Negative population growth is bad for a nation.

Everyone are for themselves so less ppl are less rivals for the limted resources. No matter how anyone tells the concern about a negative population growth, in fact - it is great for these that are alive, more jobs, more opportunities. Negative population growth worldwide would be a great thing. And well.. if it would get to a level where humans would dissapear............... .............nothing would happen, none would care, as everyone would be dead. Zero sum game. And all other life forms would be "happy" that biggest predator is not an issue anymore.
 Afterall - about the future of a nation care only these who have kids. That's kind of biased.

[OB1]

I stand by my words 100%.   People will read into my words whatever they want regardless of my intention.

Based on the words of some in reference to why they don't want children I support that decision.   They should not have children...they aren't parent material and children deserve and need better parents.

That's exactly what I meant above^^.
And...
How do you know?
Maybe they would be a better parent than you.

[da_vinci]

That's exactly what I meant above^^.
And...
How do you know?
Maybe they would be a better parent than you.

Many would be. He is intoxicating his offspring with religion from a get go, thus raising a weak individual destined to suffer.

[OB1]

Many would be. He is intoxicating his offspring with religion from a get go, thus raising a weak individual destined to suffer.

Can't argue with that.

[BBSSchlemiel]

Everyone are for themselves so less ppl are less rivals for the limted resources. No matter how anyone tells the concern about a negative population growth, in fact - it is great for these that are alive, more jobs, more opportunities. Negative population growth worldwide would be a great thing. And well.. if it would get to a level where humans would dissapear............... .............nothing would happen, none would care, as everyone would be dead. Zero sum game. And all other life forms would be "happy" that biggest predator is not an issue anymore.
 Afterall - about the future of a nation care only these who have kids. That's kind of biased.

I am in favor of eugenics, NOT unbridled multiplication, considering the lowest, most debased, stupid, perverted, and criminal bums have always multiplied at the expense and lack of safety of civic minded, law abiding people.

One of the reasons we now have an America with 30 million fucking people, many of them better off dead and put out of their misery and off our backs financially and socially, is because we have run wild with our technology and medical care and lib tard and over permissive legal system which these subhumans are not scared of! And the reason we have a world of seven billion people, most of them who cannot even care for themselves and uphold a civilization is because the United States and Europe have decided long ago to be the world's Santa Claus, feeding them, medicating them, clothing them, and teaching them to clean themselves after going to the bathroom.

No, I am not for unspecific population growth. With someone of your inherent intelligence and ability and energy, it is a shame you do not pass these qualities onto potential offspring. At first I thought you were just a Mike O'hearn jock grabber; now I think you're more than that.

[Raymondo]

That's exactly what I meant above^^.
And...
How do you know?
Maybe they would be a better parent than you.

Non-believers make better parents than believers.

[Man of Steel]

That's exactly what I meant above^^.
And...
How do you know?
Maybe they would be a better parent than you.

Most that object to kids very clearly establish that they don't like children and don't want the burden of children.  I agree, they shouldn't have children...not parent material.   Could other folks that don't have children become better parents than me?  Yes.

[Man of Steel]

Non-believers make better parents than believers.

If you notice, from the very beginning of the original thread I never once introduced anything about God as it pertained to having children....not once.   The first comments about God came from atheists that know I'm a believer.  They replied to me and they introduced the topic of God (coupled with mockery of course) and I initially laughed it off and ignored the ridicule.  After a time of persistence I then said that marrying and raising a family in accordance with God is the best approach.  

Look, I know folks are baiting me LOL....they do it all the time.  My presence alone in almost any thread will have the topic of God introduced merely because I'm in the thread.   That isn't being arrogant either, that's just the reality.   For me, it's a blessing because even those that haven't ever said a word to me suddenly address me and know exactly who I represent.  Yes!!!  Means I'm doing what I'm called to do.