Re: having kids....

[OB1]

So God is not spiritual, but is beyond (or transcends).  Although, there is a spiritual world and a material world and it is one, but things in spiritual appear to separate from one another.  Although, the material world is more dense and you won't name it because a name will limit the limitless.

Two questions:

1) Is that correct?
2) What?

LOL
I don't know.

[Man of Steel]

LOL
I don't know.

Fair enough.

[Man of Steel]

It is absurd and uncommon to force political worldviews on children so why is it acceptable to force religious ones?

I have a 6 year old daughter that is completely dependent upon me and my wife (her mother) for care.  

My wife and I are believers and attend church and religious functions regularly.  

How should we handle our 6 year old daughter as it pertains to our attendance at church and religious functions?  

When my daughter comes to me or my wife with questions about religion how should we respond?

[DroppingPlates]

I have a 6 year old daughter that is completely dependent upon me and my wife (her mother) for care.  

My wife and I are believers and attend church and religious functions regularly.  

How should we handle our 6 year old daughter as it pertains to our attendance at church and religious functions?  

When my daughter comes to me or my wife with questions about religion how should we respond?

Tell her that she needs to search for the answers herself, since there are no right or wrong answers about religion.

[Man of Steel]

Tell her that she needs to search for the answers herself, since there are no right or wrong answers about religion.

Ok, so when my 6 year old who's learning to read asks me about God I should tell to her search for the answers herself.  Got it.

But, I can fall back on the truth that there are no right or wrong answers about religion.  

"Why did Jesus die on a cross Daddy?"  "Because mashed potatos taste good sweetheart."  Got it.

What should we do about the church attendance situation?

[OB1]

Parents have the right and obligation to teach their children. If you are dependent on me, you will live by my rules....when you're old enough and can take care of yourself you can decide anything/everything...but until then, if I say the sun is the moon then it is the moon!

Fixed.

[DroppingPlates]

Ok, so when my 6 year old who's learning to read asks me about God I should tell to her search for the answers herself.  Got it.

This answer isn't complete without explaining the why

But, I can fall back on the truth that there are no right or wrong answers about religion.  

Yes

"Why did Jesus die on a cross Daddy?"  "Because mashed potatos taste good sweetheart."  Got it.

That's what they did back in the day with people who came with all sorts of claims.

What should we do about the church attendance situation?

Give her the option to choose between this or visiting a friend


You're welcome

[Man of Steel]

This answer isn't complete without explaining the why

Yes

That's what they did back in the day with people who came with all sorts of claims.

Give her the option to choose between this or visiting a friend


You're welcome

Please explain how I should explain to her the "why".

Got it.

So the example I gave is perfectly acceptable?  Which "they"?  Which "day"?  Which "people"?  What "claims"?

Is another family of believers appropriate?  We don't have any non-believing friends, is this an issue?  What if they're attending church?

[Raymondo]

Your post reminded me of a Christopher Hitchens quote.

"By trying to adjust to the findings that it once tried so viciously to ban and repress, religion has only succeeded in restating the same questions that undermined it in earlier epochs. What kind of designer or creator is so wasteful and capricious and approximate? What kind of designer or creator is so cruel and indifferent? And—most of all—what kind of designer or creator only chooses to “reveal” himself to semi-stupefied peasants in desert regions?"
―The Portable Atheist (Christopher Hitchens)

I think highly of Hitch, he came from a fine tradition of British debating.

[DroppingPlates]

Please explain how I should explain to her the "why".

Well, like I've said before,

Tell her that she needs to search for the answers herself, since there are no right or wrong answers about religion.

Got it.

So the example I gave is perfectly acceptable?  Which "they"?  Which "day"?  Which "people"?  What "claims"?

The problem with all of these questions, is that there are no objective answers, so challenging her to find out is the best reaction in my book. However, since you prob (correct me when I'm wrong) think in terms of facts instead of personal beliefs, it's prob impossible for you to response like this (with all respect!)

Is another family of believers appropriate?  We don't have any non-believing friends, is this an issue?  What if they're attending church?

I mean a friend (school/sports/neighbor..) of her, and I can only hope she has non-believing friends as well.

[Man of Steel]

Well, like I've said before,

The problem with all of these questions, is that there are no objective answers, so challenging her to find out is the best reaction in my book. However, since you prob (correct me when I'm wrong) think in terms of facts instead of personal beliefs, it's prob impossible for you to response like this (with all respect!)

I mean a friend (school/sports/neighbor..) of her, and I can only hope she has non-believing friends as well.

I don't take offense.  Given the repeat accusations towards me and other Christians brainwashing our kiddos I decided to defer to the subject matter experts in this thread and have y'all layout solutions.

Obviously as adult individuals (her parents) we aren't giving up our faith in God, we still desire to love and care for our children, we're called to share the gospel with the world, I'm meant to act as spiritual leader in my home and we certainly don't want to brainwash our children so I thought I better ask the body of objectors for the solution.

Yes, we know nonbelievers and she has little friends that are nonbelievers, but we don't know these families (or other families of believers) enough to entrust the care of our daughter to them yet.

Here's a question:  The idea that we Christians brainwash our kids is thrown out repeatedly, but what constitutes said brainwashing?  Define it for me and give examples if you would.

[Grape Ape]

I mean a friend (school/sports/neighbor..)

Very impractical and unrealistic to expect to be able to do on a consistent basis.

[Radical Plato]

If God was to abide by your terms and give you an undeniable sign of his power......turn the sun green with purple polka dots, spell out "Hello Ray, I AM GOD" with the stars or whatever it is you require of him would you give your life to him then and there?

Do you mean become a priest and fondle little boys? Or do you mean ignore your overt hypocrisy and just attend church once a week and sing ridiculous hymns and then listen to the kiddy fiddler preach.

[Man of Steel]

Do you mean become a priest and fondle little boys? Or do you mean ignore your overt hypocrisy and just attend church once a week and sing ridiculous hymns and then listen to the kiddy fiddler preach.

You're referring to the Catholic church.  I'm a Christian....a follower of Christ.  I let the RCC do their thing.   I'm talking about repenting of sin, not engaging in willful sin, spreading the gospel message to others, taking every word and thought captive and generally living as a representative for Christ in a state of righteousness.

Now that's cleared up, if God was to abide by your terms and give you an undeniable sign of his power, existence and authority......turn the sun green with purple polka dots, spell out "Hello Mr. Plato, I AM GOD" with the stars or whatever it is you require of him would you give your life to him then and there?

[Radical Plato]

Ok, so when my 6 year old who's learning to read asks me about God I should tell to her search for the answers herself.  Got it.

You just tell him the truth, that their is zero evidence for a GOD but some people need something to get through life so make one up.

But, I can fall back on the truth that there are no right or wrong answers about religion.  

That's a lie because their are plenty of right and wrong answers about religion

"Why did Jesus die on a cross Daddy?"  "Because mashed potatos taste good sweetheart."  Got it.

You tell him what the religious nutters believe but then say you personally don't even know why as it was so long ago and historical accuracy is difficult to obtain and that the evidence for the existence of Jesus is questionable, best just to see it as a parable or a metaphor.

What should we do about the church attendance situation?

Church attendance is irrelevant, who cares?  If God wants more attendees he will just have to get busy revealing himself to others.

[Man of Steel]

You just tell him the truth, that their is zero evidence for a GOD but some people need something to get through life so make one up.

That's a lie because their are plenty of right and wrong answers about religion

You tell him what the religious nutters believe but then say you personally don't even know why as it was so long ago and historical accuracy is difficult to obtain and that the evidence for the existence of Jesus is questionable, best just to see it as a parable or a metaphor.

Church attendance is irrelevant, who cares?  If God wants more attendees he will just have to get busy revealing himself to others.

Well, I can present all kinds of evidence and resolve many, many, many biblical objections.  So despite that you're suggesting that I lie to my child and tell her I can't do something when I clearly can?  

You are correct.

Again, I can discuss all these issues and provide solid insights, but you're suggesting again that I ignore that information and lie?

Actually the "church attendance" issue we were discussing previously is in reference to me and my wife being believers and attending church and other religious events, but not being able to bring our daughter because apparently that's brainwashing.  Question was, how do we overcome that situation?

[DroppingPlates]

I don't take offense.  Given the repeat accusations towards me and other Christians brainwashing our kiddos I decided to defer to the subject matter experts in this thread and have y'all layout solutions.

Obviously as adult individuals (her parents) we aren't giving up our faith in God, we still desire to love and care for our children, we're called to share the gospel with the world, I'm meant to act as spiritual leader in my home and we certainly don't want to brainwash our children so I thought I better ask the body of objectors for the solution.

Yes, we know nonbelievers and she has little friends that are nonbelievers, but we don't know these families (or other families of believers) enough to entrust the care of our daughter to them yet.

Here's a question:  The idea that we Christians brainwash our kids is thrown out repeatedly, but what constitutes said brainwashing?  Define it for me and give examples if you would.

Glad you're not offended! So far you've always expressed your thoughts/ideas on this place with the best intentions without a fundamentalist undertone, so I won't think in terms of 'brainwashing'. However, and this is very human, it becomes hard to speak objectively about something which is very existential and meaningful to you.

Well, why not bring a visit to those families? It's important for her social skills & well being to have/make friends.

Back to your question about brainwashing. I believe this happens in all sorts of religions when people are/become dogmatic & fundamentalist. You have all sorts of brainwashing, but saying to your child that is goes to hell when he/she refuses to obey Jesus is one of the most brutal ones I can think of.

Very impractical and unrealistic to expect to be able to do on a consistent basis.

It becomes complicated at least, depending on how often someone goes to church and the size of your social circle.

[Man of Steel]

Glad you're not offended! So far you've always expressed your thoughts/ideas on this place with the best intentions without a fundamentalist undertone, so I won't think in terms of 'brainwashing'. However, and this is very human, it becomes hard to speak objectively about something which is very existential and meaningful to you.

Well, why not bring a visit to those families? It's important for her social skills & well being to have/make friends.

Back to your question about brainwashing. I believe this happens in all sorts of religions when people are/become dogmatic & fundamentalist. You have all sorts of brainwashing, but saying to your child that is goes to hell when he/she refuses to obey Jesus is one of the most brutal ones I can think of.

It becomes complicated at least, depending on how often someone goes to church and the size of your social circle.

So that I understand, expresssing a fundamental truth in scripture to my child is brainwashing?   

Have you considered that there are appropriate ways to introduce the gospel and biblical truths to children and the doctrine of hell (although completely relevant) may be beyond their ability to comprehend? 

As it stands I have not introduced the concept of hell to my daughter.   

What else is considered brainwashing?

[Grape Ape]

It becomes complicated at least, depending on how often someone goes to church and the size of your social circle.

Not to mention the complete confusion for the child of why they can't go.

I guess they could get used to it.  But I don't get the big deal of just going.

If you believe strong enough in anything, it doesn't make sense to not want to share that with your kids.  Anyway, once they get older, they'll make their own decisions.

[Man of Steel]

Not to mention the complete confusion for the child of why they can't go.

I guess they could get used to it.  But I don't get the big deal of just going.

If you believe strong enough in anything, it doesn't make sense to want to share that with your kids.  Anyway, once they get older, they'll make their own decisions anyway.

This is exactly what I'm trying to get the folks in this thread to explain.   Instead of just the generic "brainwashing" generically encompassing everything "religious" explain more specifically what is meant by that term and provide the solutions (I'm assuming the religious-objectors have) to over come it.  

Not taking the kids, leaving them somewhere (a friend's house), not answering questions (when I have answers) or just lying to them....that's top of the head stuff that won't cut it.

[DroppingPlates]

So that I understand, expresssing a fundamental truth in scripture to my child is brainwashing?   

Dang, there you have it... You're expressing your belief, based on something in the Bible as 'a fundamental truth in scripture'. To me this just shows that you're prob incapable to stay objective on the matter, and again, this is very human.

Have you considered that there are appropriate ways to introduce the gospel and biblical truths to children and the doctrine of hell (although completely relevant) may be beyond their ability to comprehend? 

No, since I'me a non-believer without children, and dang, there you have it again, you say 'biblical truths'.

As it stands I have not introduced the concept of hell to my daughter.   

What else is considered brainwashing?

By speaking in terms of 'truth' and 'facts'. At a young age, a child isn't capable to understand that these qualifications are highly subjective, since they're nothing more than your personal beliefs.

[Man of Steel]

Dang, there you have it... You're expressing your belief, based on something in the Bible as 'a fundamental truth in scripture'. To me this just shows that you're prob incapable to stay objective on the matter, and again, this is very human.

No, since I'me a non-believer without children, and dang, there you have it again, you say 'biblical truths'.

By speaking in terms of 'truth' and 'facts'. At a young age, a child isn't capable to understand that these qualifications are highly subjective, since they're nothing more than your personal beliefs.

So basically what you're saying is not to present them anything from the bible because we believe all of the bible is true (cover to cover) and because of our fundamental position and accepatance of scripture virtually anything we would teach is considered brainwashing.

If we had a more liberal view of scripture that would be more palatable for you?  Throw out this and that as it suits a preference?

So you're now speaking of subjectivity and I agree that topic is too advanced for most kiddos.  It isn't for me though.  That said, why is your understanding of scripture and the things of God more correct than my understanding of scripture and the things of God?   Mine is grounded in absolute experience, special revelation, study and fellowship.  

From what I've gathered of the nonbelievers in this thread the vast majority have no understanding of anything of God beyond meme-ish internet information and old religious cliches (this thread is riddled with that nonsense).   I'm not lumping you into that category or trying to be offensive, but if you have no experience with the things of God then you really have no reason to post an opinion let alone espouse an absolute truth concerning that which you are ironically and fully ignorant.    

[DroppingPlates]

So basically what you're saying is not to present them anything from the bible because we believe all of the bible is true....cover to cover.  Fundamentally that is our foundation.  If we had a more liberal view of scripture that would be more palatable for you?

Partly yes, I believe that you should stop referring to the Bible over and over again. Instead, share your(!) personal ideas, thoughts & feelings with your daughter.
No, to me it doesn't matter which ideology you have, as long it's a peaceful one.

So you're now speaking of subjectivity and I agree that topic is too advanced for most kiddos.  It isn't for me though.  That said, why is your understanding of scripture and the things of God more correct than my understanding of scripture and the things of God?   Mine is grounded in absolute experience, special revelation, study and fellowship.  

All of our ideas about religion are subjective, so -again- there are NO right of wrong answers. Just like you, all of us follow a certain 'journey of life' where we discover our believes. Mine isn't better or worse than yours...

From what I've gathered of the nonbelievers in this thread the vast majority have no understanding of anything of God beyond meme-ish internet information and old religious cliches (this thread is riddled with that nonsense).   I'm not lumping you into that category or trying to be offensive, but if you have no experience with the things of God then you really have no reason to post an opinion let alone espouse an absolute truth concerning that which you are ironically and fully ignorant.    

Because you tend to think in terms of 'truth' and 'facts', you also think in terms of 'understanding' as well, which is understandable. However, like I've explained above, I don't believe in these terms when they are related to religions (i.e. certain beliefs).

[da_vinci]

You're referring to the Catholic church.  I'm a Christian....a follower of Christ.  I let the RCC do their thing.   I'm talking about repenting of sin, not engaging in willful sin, spreading the gospel message to others, taking every word and thought captive and generally living as a representative for Christ in a state of righteousness.

So you're basically twisting the faith as you see it suits you. It's either Bible to the T, or it is twisting by personal needs.
What is faith without religion and clear guidelines "how to believe"? Exactly - it is nothing. or is that about simply believing that SOMETHING exists? What's the point? (you weren't able to aswer this the last time).

MOS, ffs, you are defending this just because you know that if not being drunk on religion - you'd go right back to simply being drunk. We get it - it helps you to get through life, which was obviously too difficult to deal for you, but you should understand that there are actually strong people out there who doesn't need to get drunk to feel good, they are succesfully navigating in this survival game and are perfectly happy without imaginary friends, no need to preach "god" for them. I shit on your god, even if it's real - I double shit on him, I dont need no help from a sadistic and brutally merciless creature, he may very well go fuck himself while watching all the blood rivers that are flowing on this insignificant piece of space dust.

[Croatch]

He died on a cross for our fucking sins.  You should some God damn respect you bastards!!!

Oh, and donate about 3% of your income to the church.  They need to spread the word.

If people were taught religion starting at 18, the vast majority would walk out laughing.  A child's mind is quite easy to mold.  If nobody told you Santa didn't exist, you'd still believe that one.