Author Topic: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 53444 times)

alexxx

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #225 on: March 28, 2006, 10:51:53 AM »

I majored in History. You are either 1.Delusional  or 2.Joking. I think it's 2..I HOPE it's 2.


Tell me what is your affixiation with hitler?
just push some weight!

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #226 on: March 28, 2006, 10:54:56 AM »

Tell me what is your affixiation with hitler?


I'm waiting for the "Evidence of a God"...Then i'll tell you. ;)

alexxx

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #227 on: March 28, 2006, 10:56:26 AM »

I'm waiting for the "Evidence of a God"...Then i'll tell you. ;)

ok well if you believe is science and history then you would know that both those lead straight to the answers about religion's authenticity! Your turn!!
just push some weight!

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #228 on: March 28, 2006, 10:57:01 AM »
ok well if you believe is science and history then you would know that both those lead straight to the answers about religion's authenticity! Your turn!!


That's not evidence. Explain HOW science and history support religion.

dontknowit

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #229 on: March 28, 2006, 10:59:22 AM »


The whole UFO's visiting earth is bullshit. However I do believe in life on other planets based on the stats you've mentioned going with my knowledge of evolution and biogenesis.

Why call it a UFO?

If there would be life on the moon,
Neil Armstrong would be an Alien, the Apollo 11 an UFO and the moonbuggy something magistic. Understanding something not doesn't mean nonexisting, or something out of the ordinary.

And besides that,
the human race only exist for about 100.000 years. Did you know when we start flying?
about a century ago. A "being" being able to build a vehicle that can cross galaxy's wouldn't be a great surprise.
Sounds like music, but einstein already calculated that it is possible to cross lightyears in short time. It's just become a matter of bringing knowledge to practice.

And let's say if other beings would exist,
what would the learn from us?
Killing each other, surpress people, preach democraty by sword. There is absolutely no need to engage to the planet earth.
And I don't believe in beings crossing the galaxy killing other beings, what would be the point?

They have to fear us if we succeed to escape from this planet.

alexxx

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #230 on: March 28, 2006, 11:00:35 AM »
The proof of the pudding

When someone makes extraordinary claims as Jesus did, the obvious thing to do is to ask the question: Do the other things we know about this person support such claims or not? I suggest there are four lines of evidence that support his claims. Each, taken separately, presents a compelling argument. Together they present overwhelming evidence. I shall avoid using the word "proof"! Each person must weigh up the evidence for themselves.

His character supports his claims

In all of history has there been anyone whose character and sheer goodness has shone so brightly? Although his claims seem egocentric, his life-style was humble. He avoided publicity and refused to perform miracles to please the crowds. He taught his disciples that service to others was the mark of greatness. He left them with a servant model by washing their feet. He deliberately sought out the despised of society, yet seemed equally at ease with the upper classes.

"We have here an example of love that is beyond human comprehension. At every point his teaching and example are one of a kind"
His life exemplified his own teaching. He said to the religious Jews, "How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God," and at the same time appeared immune to the praise or blame of others. He taught that "a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions," and demonstrated his own freedom from the grip of material things. As far as we know, he only possessed the clothes he wore. He condemned hypocrisy in others and gave no hint of it in himself.

He told his disciples to love their enemies and he himself prayed for forgiveness for those who nailed him on the cross. His compassion for others comes through in every chapter of the story. If, as the New Testament constantly affirms, he laid down his life for the sins of the human race, to reconcile people to God, we have here an example of love that is beyond human comprehension. At every point his teaching and his example are one of a kind.

His self-assurance and courage stand out clearly, and nowhere more so than at his trial. J. B. Phillips, who translated the New Testament into modern English, says of him:

This man could be moved with compassion and could be very gentle, but...he was quite terrifyingly tough, not in a James Bond sort of way, but in the sheer strength of a unified and utterly dedicated personality.

His attitude to women was in sharp contrast to the customs of the age, indeed of any age. Dorothy Sayers, in her book Are Women Human? sums this up aptly:

They had never known a man like this Man - there never has been such another. A prophet and teacher who never nagged at them, never flattered or coaxed or patronised; who never made arch jokes about them, never treated them either as "The women, God help us!" or "The ladies, God bless them!"; who rebuked without querulousness and praised without condescension; who took their questions seriously; who never mapped out their sphere for them, never urged them to be feminine or jeered at them for being female; who had no axe to grind and no uneasy male dignity to defend; who took them as he found them and was completely unselfconscious.

He showed particular kindness towards divorced women, prostitutes and his mother.

It is interesting to note what his closest friends made of him. John declared, "We have seen his glory...full of grace and truth" (John 1:14) and "in him is no sin" ( 1 John 3:5). Peter said, "He committed no sin" (1 Peter 2:22). These were men who spent two-and-a-half years as his closest companions. Paul, who did not know Christ personally while he was on earth, but who knew many who did, said that he "had no sin" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

His enemies sought to find fault with him over a period of two or more years. However, at his trial they could find no evidence against him, other than that of blasphemy for claiming to be the Messiah, and of insurrection for claiming to be a king. When they attacked his character they only contradicted themselves. Pilate, though allowing him to be crucified out of cowardice, declared twice, "I find no basis for a charge against him" (John 19:4,6). Even the traitor Judas confessed that he had betrayed an innocent man (Matthew 27:4).

What are we to make of such a man? The Russian author Dostoevski, in a letter to his brother, put it like this:

I want to say to you that I am a child of this age, a child of unbelief and scepticism and yet...I believe that there is nothing lovelier, deeper, more sympathetic, more rational, more human and more perfect than the Saviour.

Wakasa no Kami was a Japanese feudal lord. In 1854 he discovered a waterlogged copy of a Dutch translation of the Bible floating in the waves. He acquired a Chinese translation and studied it for eleven years. One day he appeared at the door of Verbeck, the first Protestant missionary to Japan, with fifty retainers in full regalia, and asked for baptism. He declared:

I cannot tell you my feelings when for the first time I read the account of the character and work of Jesus Christ. I had never seen, heard or imagined such a person. I was filled with admiration, overwhelmed with emotion and taken captive by the record of his nature and life.

Marcus Loane, biblical scholar and Archbishop, summed all this up well when he declared:

His life was marked by a moral perfection which people might try to describe but could never invent. His death was invested with a sacrificial value which could only have derived from one who was sinless. That perfection of character under every test and in every circumstance could not be the product of an imperfect group of disciples. There was no one like him: no saint or seer; no prophet or psalmist; he was unique. And the glory of the New Testament is that it shows how God sent His Son into this world that by means of him our sins may be forgiven.

His teaching supports his claims

One aspect of his teaching that constantly impressed his hearers was the authoritative manner with which he spoke: "...the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law" (Matthew 7:29); "The people were all so amazed that they asked one another, 'What is this? A new teaching - and with authority!'" (Mark 1:27). Jesus never quoted any authorities other than the Old Testament Scriptures. He never said, "Rabbi so-and-so says this". Neither did he hide behind the authority of Jehovah as the prophets of old: "Thus says the Lord". He simply declared, "Truly I say to you".

"I call myself a Christian because I discern in the New Testament a man whose life, death and central teaching penetrates more deeply into the mysterious reality of our condition than anyone or anything else has ever done"
There is a wisdom and comprehensiveness about the ethical teaching of Christ that has never been surpassed. He dealt with all the most vital issues of life: our relationship with God and with one another, our attitude to material possessions, our motivations and goals in life, and the relationship of this life to the next. Philip Toynbee, reviewer and writer, expressed it this way:

I call myself a Christian because I discern in the New Testament a man whose life, death and central teaching penetrates more deeply into the mysterious reality of our condition than anyone or anything else has ever done. In the Gospels, Acts, and Epistles, I find a total view of what man is, of what he could be and ought to be,which evokes a response in me such as no other writings have ever done.

During the last 2,000 years no teaching on the subject of how people should behave has emerged that represents any advance on Jesus' model. According to G. Thomas:

...since the days of Christ, in spite of all the progress of thought, not a single new ethical ideal has been given to the world.

There is also a challenge in his teaching that has not been equalled. He drew attention to thoughts and motives as well as outward behaviour (Matthew 5:21,22, 27,28; Mark 7:6,21-23; Luke 12:15; John 5:44, etc.). There is an uncanny way in which he always gets to the core of an issue. It is therefore difficult to study the gospels with moral neutrality. Carnegie Simpson, in his book The Fact of Christ, says:

The historical fact of Christ has religious issues because of its moral challenge. As we study, our conscience is aroused. As we examine him intellectually, he examines us spiritually, and the roles are reversed. We study Aristotle and are intellectually edified thereby. We study Jesus and are in the profoundest way spiritually disturbed. We are constrained to take up some inward moral attitude of heart and will in relation to Jesus. A man may study Jesus with intellectual impartiality, but he cannot do it with moral neutrality. We must declare our colours.

Jesus also had the ability to take the ordinary experiences of everyday people and use them to illustrate, in unforgettable ways, the deeper truths of life. The method of his teaching, as well as its content, was unique. Although he had never had higher education he impressed his hearers. "The Jews were amazed and asked, 'How did this man get such learning without having studied?'" (John 7:15). How indeed?

Here again, the problem between his claims and the wisdom of his teaching is highlighted. As Elton Trueblood put it:

All four Gospels bristle with supernatural claims on the part of Jesus. If he was only a teacher, he was a very misleading one.

Or to quote C. S. Lewis again:

...the discrepancy between the depth and sanity and (let me add) shrewdness of his moral teaching, and the rampant megalomania which must lie behind his theological teaching, unless he is indeed God, has never been satisfactorily got over.

His miracles support his claims

The influential Archbishop of Canterbury, William Temple, noted:

It is now recognised that the one Christ for whose existence there is any evidence at all is a miraculous figure making stupendous claims.

The gospel stories contain numerous examples of Jesus healing all kinds of illnesses and, in three instances, raising the dead. He also demonstrated his powers over nature. These miracles, as Archibald Alexander puts it:

...were performed, for the most part, in an open and public manner, in the presence of multitudes of witnesses, under the inspection of learned and malignant enemies, in a great variety of circumstances, and for several years in succession. His enemies never denied these signs.

In today's materialistic world these miracles appear as an embarrassment. We distrust anything that does not have a "scientific" explanation. However, I suspect that the problem is often not so much with Jesus' miracles as with his claims. The question we ought to be asking is, "If Jesus was the one through whom the universe was created, would we expect his life to be different?" If he had the power to heal, and did not do so, then would we use this as an argument to dispute his claims?

Jesus himself claimed that his works were evidence that the Father had sent him. He urged both his disciples and his opponents to believe in him on the basis of these works if they found it difficult to believe on the basis of any other evidence (John 5:36; 10:37,38; 14:11). However, he studiously avoided performing miracles just for show or to obtain a following. John calls his miracles "signs" - signs of who he was and what he had come to do.

The greatest of all miracles in the life of Jesus was his own resurrection. I have dealt with this in a separate booklet, Did Jesus Really Rise from the Dead? as it is worth a booklet on its own.

His influence in history supports his claims

We divide history into BC and AD because of Jesus! H. G. Wells said:

I am an historian. I am not a believer. But I must confess, as an historian, this penniless creature from Galilee is irresistibly the centre of history.

Jesus has captured the heart and mind and allegiance of peasant and king, of intellectual and illiterate the world over. Wherever the message of this man has been proclaimed, among all races and cultures, people have turned from their own ways to follow him. His influence in art, music and literature is incalculable.

So much of what may be called "progress" has been done in his name: the abolition of slavery; the building of hospitals; the development of the nursing profession; the reform of prisons; the abolition of child labour; the care of orphans and the elderly; the foundation of innumerable charitable organisations such as the Red Cross and the YMCA; the development of education worldwide, particularly of the lower classes; pioneer work with lepers; literacy projects all round the world; the abolition of forced labour in the Congo; resistance to black-birding in the Pacific; the ending of cannibalism and child sacrifice on several continents; the fight for human rights in combating opium, foot-binding and exposure of girl babies in China; the war against widow-burning, infanticide and temple prostitution in India - the list goes on and on. Until comparatively recently eighty percent of all education in Africa south of the Sahara was done by Christian missionaries.

Historian Ruth Tucker says:

The ministry of missionary medicine during the twentieth century has been without a doubt the greatest humanitarian effort the world has ever known.

As late as 1935, half the hospitals in China were run by missionaries. Even the foundations of modern science were laid in the name of this man from Nazareth, as were the foundations of Western music.

Much of the influence of Jesus is well documented in the book What If Jesus Had Never Been Born by D. James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe (Word Publishing, 1994). This is an excellent book as it does not overlook the failures of those who claim to be his followers. It is no wonder that the Encyclopaedia Britannica gives far more space to the historic Jesus than any other human figure.

His influence has not diminished today. Historian Kenneth Scott Latourette has observed that:

Never has Jesus had so wide and so profound an effect upon humanity as in the past three or four generations. Through him, millions of individuals have been transformed and have begun to live the kind of life which he exemplified...Gauged by the consequences, the events which have followed the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus have been the most important events in the history of man. Measured by his influence, Jesus is central in the human story.

Christians claim that this influence stems not only from his life on earth, but also from his resurrection and continued activity in the lives of his people by the Holy Spirit. If we deny this, then we are left with the belief that it all grew out of the impact of a mere three years ministry of this remarkable man, in an obscure corner of the Roman Empire, and that alone.
just push some weight!

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #231 on: March 28, 2006, 11:02:57 AM »
Wow..You're good at plagiarism! ::)

www.christianity.co.nz/god-man4.htm



I'll refute it within a day or two..EVERYONE...Watch and marvel at my supreme skills.


And Alexx..I'll expect you to ADDRESS my refutations of your plagiarized bullshit.

Palpatine Q

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #232 on: March 28, 2006, 11:06:48 AM »
Why call it a UFO?

If there would be life on the moon,
Neil Armstrong would be an Alien, the Apollo 11 an UFO and the moonbuggy something magistic. Understanding something not doesn't mean nonexisting, or something out of the ordinary.

And besides that,
the human race only exist for about 100.000 years. Did you know when we start flying?
about a century ago. A "being" being able to build a vehicle that can cross galaxy's wouldn't be a great surprise.
Sounds like music, but einstein already calculated that it is possible to cross lightyears in short time. It's just become a matter of bringing knowledge to practice.

And let's say if other beings would exist,
what would the learn from us?
Killing each other, surpress people, preach democraty by sword. There is absolutely no need to engage to the planet earth.
And I don't believe in beings crossing the galaxy killing other beings, what would be the point?

They have to fear us if we succeed to escape from this planet.

A being that advanced probably pops their head into our little shithole, looks around and sees a bunch of violent douchebags(us), rolls up the windows and keeps going.

alexxx

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #233 on: March 28, 2006, 11:08:11 AM »
Wow..You're good at plagiarism! ::)

www.christianity.co.nz/god-man4.htm



I'll refute it within a day or two..EVERYONE...Watch and marvel at my supreme skills.


And Alexx..I'll expect you to ADDRESS my refutations of your plagiarized bullshit.

I never claimed it was my own... just proof!
just push some weight!

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #234 on: March 28, 2006, 11:09:05 AM »
As I read all the haters of God/Jesus it make's stronger in my beliefs!

Bast175

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #235 on: March 28, 2006, 11:11:28 AM »
All my prayers come true.

BroadStreetBruiser

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #236 on: March 28, 2006, 11:15:53 AM »
I pray for bast
$

alexxx

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just push some weight!

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #238 on: March 28, 2006, 11:48:12 AM »

Hint:  You have to believe something exists in order to "hate" it.


Saying that I "hate" god is kinda like saying I hate Frosty the Snowman.  ::)

Whatever!

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #239 on: March 28, 2006, 05:20:11 PM »
The proof of the pudding

When someone makes extraordinary claims as Jesus did, the obvious thing to do is to ask the question: Do the other things we know about this person support such claims or not? I suggest there are four lines of evidence that support his claims. Each, taken separately, presents a compelling argument. Together they present overwhelming evidence. I shall avoid using the word "proof"! Each person must weigh up the evidence for themselves.

His character supports his claims

In all of history has there been anyone whose character and sheer goodness has shone so brightly? Although his claims seem egocentric, his life-style was humble. He avoided publicity and refused to perform miracles to please the crowds. He taught his disciples that service to others was the mark of greatness. He left them with a servant model by washing their feet. He deliberately sought out the despised of society, yet seemed equally at ease with the upper classes.


"We have here an example of love that is beyond human comprehension. At every point his teaching and example are one of a kind"
His life exemplified his own teaching. He said to the religious Jews, "How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God," and at the same time appeared immune to the praise or blame of others. He taught that "a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions," and demonstrated his own freedom from the grip of material things. As far as we know, he only possessed the clothes he wore. He condemned hypocrisy in others and gave no hint of it in himself.

He told his disciples to love their enemies and he himself prayed for forgiveness for those who nailed him on the cross. His compassion for others comes through in every chapter of the story. If, as the New Testament constantly affirms, he laid down his life for the sins of the human race, to reconcile people to God, we have here an example of love that is beyond human comprehension. At every point his teaching and his example are one of a kind.

His self-assurance and courage stand out clearly, and nowhere more so than at his trial. J. B. Phillips, who translated the New Testament into modern English, says of him:

This man could be moved with compassion and could be very gentle, but...he was quite terrifyingly tough, not in a James Bond sort of way, but in the sheer strength of a unified and utterly dedicated personality.

His attitude to women was in sharp contrast to the customs of the age, indeed of any age. Dorothy Sayers, in her book Are Women Human? sums this up aptly:

They had never known a man like this Man - there never has been such another. A prophet and teacher who never nagged at them, never flattered or coaxed or patronised; who never made arch jokes about them, never treated them either as "The women, God help us!" or "The ladies, God bless them!"; who rebuked without querulousness and praised without condescension; who took their questions seriously; who never mapped out their sphere for them, never urged them to be feminine or jeered at them for being female; who had no axe to grind and no uneasy male dignity to defend; who took them as he found them and was completely unselfconscious.

He showed particular kindness towards divorced women, prostitutes and his mother.

It is interesting to note what his closest friends made of him. John declared, "We have seen his glory...full of grace and truth" (John 1:14) and "in him is no sin" ( 1 John 3:5). Peter said, "He committed no sin" (1 Peter 2:22). These were men who spent two-and-a-half years as his closest companions. Paul, who did not know Christ personally while he was on earth, but who knew many who did, said that he "had no sin" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Yes Yes yes..The "Character" jesus from the gospels was a very good and moral person(For the time period mind you..) Doesn't prove a thing...

His enemies sought to find fault with him over a period of two or more years. However, at his trial they could find no evidence against him, other than that of blasphemy for claiming to be the Messiah, and of insurrection for claiming to be a king. When they attacked his character they only contradicted themselves. Pilate, though allowing him to be crucified out of cowardice, declared twice, "I find no basis for a charge against him" (John 19:4,6). Even the traitor Judas confessed that he had betrayed an innocent man (Matthew 27:4).

What are we to make of such a man? The Russian author Dostoevski, in a letter to his brother, put it like this:

I want to say to you that I am a child of this age, a child of unbelief and scepticism and yet...I believe that there is nothing lovelier, deeper, more sympathetic, more rational, more human and more perfect than the Saviour.

Wakasa no Kami was a Japanese feudal lord. In 1854 he discovered a waterlogged copy of a Dutch translation of the Bible floating in the waves. He acquired a Chinese translation and studied it for eleven years. One day he appeared at the door of Verbeck, the first Protestant missionary to Japan, with fifty retainers in full regalia, and asked for baptism. He declared:

I cannot tell you my feelings when for the first time I read the account of the character and work of Jesus Christ. I had never seen, heard or imagined such a person. I was filled with admiration, overwhelmed with emotion and taken captive by the record of his nature and life.

Marcus Loane, biblical scholar and Archbishop, summed all this up well when he declared:

His life was marked by a moral perfection which people might try to describe but could never invent. His death was invested with a sacrificial value which could only have derived from one who was sinless. That perfection of character under every test and in every circumstance could not be the product of an imperfect group of disciples. There was no one like him: no saint or seer; no prophet or psalmist; he was unique. And the glory of the New Testament is that it shows how God sent His Son into this world that by means of him our sins may be forgiven.

So what..So people admired jesus and do still in modern times..This does not prove anything but jesus was a very "Admirable" person who people looked up to. Does not prove the existance of a God.


His teaching supports his claims

One aspect of his teaching that constantly impressed his hearers was the authoritative manner with which he spoke: "...the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law" (Matthew 7:29); "The people were all so amazed that they asked one another, 'What is this? A new teaching - and with authority!'" (Mark 1:27). Jesus never quoted any authorities other than the Old Testament Scriptures. He never said, "Rabbi so-and-so says this". Neither did he hide behind the authority of Jehovah as the prophets of old: "Thus says the Lord". He simply declared, "Truly I say to you".

"I call myself a Christian because I discern in the New Testament a man whose life, death and central teaching penetrates more deeply into the mysterious reality of our condition than anyone or anything else has ever done"
There is a wisdom and comprehensiveness about the ethical teaching of Christ that has never been surpassed. He dealt with all the most vital issues of life: our relationship with God and with one another, our attitude to material possessions, our motivations and goals in life, and the relationship of this life to the next. Philip Toynbee, reviewer and writer, expressed it this way:

I call myself a Christian because I discern in the New Testament a man whose life, death and central teaching penetrates more deeply into the mysterious reality of our condition than anyone or anything else has ever done. In the Gospels, Acts, and Epistles, I find a total view of what man is, of what he could be and ought to be,which evokes a response in me such as no other writings have ever done.

During the last 2,000 years no teaching on the subject of how people should behave has emerged that represents any advance on Jesus' model. According to G. Thomas:

...since the days of Christ, in spite of all the progress of thought, not a single new ethical ideal has been given to the world.

All I see here are personal OPINIONS as to the "greatness" of the gospels or jesus as a person. I see no evidence here of any "Gods".


There is also a challenge in his teaching that has not been equalled. He drew attention to thoughts and motives as well as outward behaviour (Matthew 5:21,22, 27,28; Mark 7:6,21-23; Luke 12:15; John 5:44, etc.). There is an uncanny way in which he always gets to the core of an issue. It is therefore difficult to study the gospels with moral neutrality. Carnegie Simpson, in his book The Fact of Christ, says:

The historical fact of Christ has religious issues because of its moral challenge. As we study, our conscience is aroused. As we examine him intellectually, he examines us spiritually, and the roles are reversed. We study Aristotle and are intellectually edified thereby. We study Jesus and are in the profoundest way spiritually disturbed. We are constrained to take up some inward moral attitude of heart and will in relation to Jesus. A man may study Jesus with intellectual impartiality, but he cannot do it with moral neutrality. We must declare our colours.

Jesus also had the ability to take the ordinary experiences of everyday people and use them to illustrate, in unforgettable ways, the deeper truths of life. The method of his teaching, as well as its content, was unique. Although he had never had higher education he impressed his hearers. "The Jews were amazed and asked, 'How did this man get such learning without having studied?'" (John 7:15). How indeed?

Here again, the problem between his claims and the wisdom of his teaching is highlighted. As Elton Trueblood put it:

All four Gospels bristle with supernatural claims on the part of Jesus. If he was only a teacher, he was a very misleading one.

Or to quote C. S. Lewis again:

...the discrepancy between the depth and sanity and (let me add) shrewdness of his moral teaching, and the rampant megalomania which must lie behind his theological teaching, unless he is indeed God, has never been satisfactorily got over.

What they are claiming here is jesus's teachings were so "Great"(Subjective claim) that if he claimed he is God..He MUST be!

This is ..
1.A logical fallacy.
2.Completly false considering jesus never proclaimed he was "God" i've stated that in this thread many times.


His miracles support his claims

The influential Archbishop of Canterbury, William Temple, noted:

It is now recognised that the one Christ for whose existence there is any evidence at all is a miraculous figure making stupendous claims.

The gospel stories contain numerous examples of Jesus healing all kinds of illnesses and, in three instances, raising the dead. He also demonstrated his powers over nature. These miracles, as Archibald Alexander puts it:

...were performed, for the most part, in an open and public manner, in the presence of multitudes of witnesses, under the inspection of learned and malignant enemies, in a great variety of circumstances, and for several years in succession. His enemies never denied these signs.

In today's materialistic world these miracles appear as an embarrassment. We distrust anything that does not have a "scientific" explanation. However, I suspect that the problem is often not so much with Jesus' miracles as with his claims. The question we ought to be asking is, "If Jesus was the one through whom the universe was created, would we expect his life to be different?" If he had the power to heal, and did not do so, then would we use this as an argument to dispute his claims?

Jesus himself claimed that his works were evidence that the Father had sent him. He urged both his disciples and his opponents to believe in him on the basis of these works if they found it difficult to believe on the basis of any other evidence (John 5:36; 10:37,38; 14:11). However, he studiously avoided performing miracles just for show or to obtain a following. John calls his miracles "signs" - signs of who he was and what he had come to do.

The greatest of all miracles in the life of Jesus was his own resurrection. I have dealt with this in a separate booklet, Did Jesus Really Rise from the Dead? as it is worth a booklet on its own.

There isn't any proof jesus did any "Miracles" nor is there any proof his "Miracles" were real miracles and not simply parlor tricks.

All we have are 2nd hand hearsay accounts of Jesus's existance and the later the works the more extreme the miracles get which is a sign that there weren't any miracles in the first texts. In the earliest known gospel the miracles are small and in the later gospels they seem to be getting bigger and bigger.



His influence in history supports his claims

We divide history into BC and AD because of Jesus! H. G. Wells said:

I am an historian. I am not a believer. But I must confess, as an historian, this penniless creature from Galilee is irresistibly the centre of history.

Jesus has captured the heart and mind and allegiance of peasant and king, of intellectual and illiterate the world over. Wherever the message of this man has been proclaimed, among all races and cultures, people have turned from their own ways to follow him. His influence in art, music and literature is incalculable.

So much of what may be called "progress" has been done in his name: the abolition of slavery; the building of hospitals; the development of the nursing profession; the reform of prisons; the abolition of child labour; the care of orphans and the elderly; the foundation of innumerable charitable organisations such as the Red Cross and the YMCA; the development of education worldwide, particularly of the lower classes; pioneer work with lepers; literacy projects all round the world; the abolition of forced labour in the Congo; resistance to black-birding in the Pacific; the ending of cannibalism and child sacrifice on several continents; the fight for human rights in combating opium, foot-binding and exposure of girl babies in China; the war against widow-burning, infanticide and temple prostitution in India - the list goes on and on. Until comparatively recently eighty percent of all education in Africa south of the Sahara was done by Christian missionaries.

Historian Ruth Tucker says:

The ministry of missionary medicine during the twentieth century has been without a doubt the greatest humanitarian effort the world has ever known.

As late as 1935, half the hospitals in China were run by missionaries. Even the foundations of modern science were laid in the name of this man from Nazareth, as were the foundations of Western music.

Much of the influence of Jesus is well documented in the book What If Jesus Had Never Been Born by D. James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe (Word Publishing, 1994). This is an excellent book as it does not overlook the failures of those who claim to be his followers. It is no wonder that the Encyclopaedia Britannica gives far more space to the historic Jesus than any other human figure.

His influence has not diminished today. Historian Kenneth Scott Latourette has observed that:

Never has Jesus had so wide and so profound an effect upon humanity as in the past three or four generations. Through him, millions of individuals have been transformed and have begun to live the kind of life which he exemplified...Gauged by the consequences, the events which have followed the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus have been the most important events in the history of man. Measured by his influence, Jesus is central in the human story.

Christians claim that this influence stems not only from his life on earth, but also from his resurrection and continued activity in the lives of his people by the Holy Spirit. If we deny this, then we are left with the belief that it all grew out of the impact of a mere three years ministry of this remarkable man, in an obscure corner of the Roman Empire, and that alone.


This is another fallacy. Jesus did not influence the world...EUROPEANS influenced the world and most EUROPEANS happened to worship jesus! It just so happens that the most powerful nations in the world in the past 1,500 years have happened to be predominatly christian nations. Jesus nor his teachings influenced the world...Those who BELIEVE in his teachings however have.

Secondly Jesus's teachings aren't so widely spread because they are "better" than any other religious teachings. They are so widely known because CHRISTIANS force fed them to others. Have you ever heard of the "Crusades"? For the past 1,500 years christians have been waging "holy wars" to kill "Infidels" or convert them to christianity. The ONLY reason christianity is so far spread and so massive is because EUROPEANISM is so far spread and so massive and europeans just happen to of been christians.





So in conclusion...NOTHING you've presented is any proof of a "God" or even proof the bible is correct. Nothing but fallacies and opinions..Nothing that can be proven in any sort of way.



P.S....I will NOT respond to anything this long again unless it is IN YOUR OWN WORDS. If you copy-paste something else make sure 1.It is under 2 paragraphs and 2.You provide a source.

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #240 on: March 28, 2006, 05:23:11 PM »
A being that advanced probably pops their head into our little shithole, looks around and sees a bunch of violent douchebags(us), rolls up the windows and keeps going.


True..Not abducts hillbillies from alabama and probes their anal areas or impregnates nobody housewives from iowa! A civilization that advanced could easly scan this entire planet in a microsecond and get all of the data they needed.


It's funny...The crazy "Alien conspiracy theorists" claim that aliens come here because their home planet is doomed and they need to breed with humans to stay alive. So they impregnate earth women to keep babies coming, Which makes no sense because...

A FUCKING SUPER ADVANCED CIVILIZATION THAT TRAVELS MILLIONS OF LIGHT YEARS AND VIOLATES THE KNOWN LAWS OF PHYSICS COULD EASLY KNOW HOW TO FUCKING CLONE!

Bast175

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #241 on: March 28, 2006, 05:50:26 PM »
Don't worry, I will pray for you Johnny.

LuciusFox

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #242 on: March 28, 2006, 05:56:39 PM »
 Good work, Johnny. I am an atheist who doesn't like to preach often, but sometimes you have to speak up to counter the blatantly false ideas that people try to peddle to you.

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #243 on: March 28, 2006, 06:12:39 PM »
Good work, Johnny. I am an atheist who doesn't like to preach often, but sometimes you have to speak up to counter the blatantly false ideas that people try to peddle to you.

Thats exactly how Christians feel. But since Johnny doesn't have an original thought he goes to athiest sites to counter. It takes approximatly 5 solid years to read, interperate and understand the Bible, this clown thinks he can do it in a post!

LuciusFox

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #244 on: March 28, 2006, 06:18:54 PM »
Thats exactly how Christians feel. But since Johnny doesn't have an original thought he goes to athiest sites to counter. It takes approximatly 5 solid years to read, interperate and understand the Bible, this clown thinks he can do it in a post!

 Christians aren't necessarily countering blatantly false ideas because they are dealing with faith. When someone says that they don't see a reason to be Christian, the response is not a series of facts showing that they should be, but instead a certain amount of rhetoric that is intended to persuade them to be. Johnny's quotes are quite likely from people who have read and have an excellent understanding of the Bible. But that just begs the question. If it takes 5 years to understand the Bible (including time to learn the original languages?), then how much does the average person get out of reading it?

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #245 on: March 28, 2006, 07:06:34 PM »
Thats exactly how Christians feel. But since Johnny doesn't have an original thought he goes to athiest sites to counter. It takes approximatly 5 solid years to read, interperate and understand the Bible, this clown thinks he can do it in a post!


I've called you out to provide the "sites" i'm coping and pasting from yet you refuse to.


I'll say this ONE LAST TIME.

EVERYTHING I post is from me unless I state otherwise. EVERYTHING I post that does not come from me is ALWAYS
Quote
quoted like this
to imply it did not come from me and I ALWAYS provide the source of my copy-paste.

Stop making obviously false claims.

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #246 on: March 28, 2006, 07:08:10 PM »
Christians aren't necessarily countering blatantly false ideas because they are dealing with faith. When someone says that they don't see a reason to be Christian, the response is not a series of facts showing that they should be, but instead a certain amount of rhetoric that is intended to persuade them to be. Johnny's quotes are quite likely from people who have read and have an excellent understanding of the Bible. But that just begs the question. If it takes 5 years to understand the Bible (including time to learn the original languages?), then how much does the average person get out of reading it?


What quotes are you refering to? My posts come from me and just me. And I do have an extensive understanding of the hebrew and greek bible(Old and new testaments). As well as other non-included texts in the modern cannon such as the gnostic gospels or gospels of thomas.

LuciusFox

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #247 on: March 28, 2006, 08:15:05 PM »

What quotes are you refering to? My posts come from me and just me. And I do have an extensive understanding of the hebrew and greek bible(Old and new testaments). As well as other non-included texts in the modern cannon such as the gnostic gospels or gospels of thomas.

 I was agreeing with you. The information you posted was clearly written by someone who was informed about the Bible.

Johnny Apollo

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #248 on: March 29, 2006, 09:06:58 AM »
I was agreeing with you. The information you posted was clearly written by someone who was informed about the Bible.


Sorry..Thought you meant someone else besides myself.

LuciusFox

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Re: Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #249 on: March 29, 2006, 10:01:52 AM »

Sorry..Thought you meant someone else besides myself.

 No problem! :)