Your Not Lifting Unless Your Lifting for GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BroadStreetBruiser]

there's a religious thread buffet down on the general board

[Johnny Apollo]

there's a religious thread buffet down on the general board

Not familar with that one.

[BroadStreetBruiser]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=43713.0

[Johnny Apollo]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=43713.0

Posted in it...But I like this one better since that one is basically dead.

[dontknowit]

I know this. I'm saying they are ANCIENT COPIES. I.E. not directly from the original authors. Do you actually think the dead sea scrolls are the first time the 10 commandments appeared in history?
The carbon dating of them yields the earliest age of the oldest manuscript from 21 BC–AD 61.  The religion of judaism is hundreds of years older than this.

I don't get you're point exactly.

It's the proof that the bible hasn't been altered in almost 2 millenia. What are the odds that it would be changed before?

And another thing, a theory is a theory,
you don't need the bible to back up the fact that there are other beings in this universe, and there's a reasonable change that they have a achieved a higher form of society. It's all about mathematics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

There are two uses of the word theory; a supposition which is not backed by observation is known as a conjecture, and if backed by observation it is a hypothesis. Most theory evolves from hypotheses, but the reverse is not true: many hypotheses turn out to be false and so do not evolve into theory.[/]

[Johnny Apollo]

I don't get you're point exactly.

It's the proof that the bible hasn't been altered in almost 2 millenia. What are the odds that it would be changed before?

First of all...The Dead sea scrolls only contains books of the HEBREW BIBLE not the new testament. So it has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying about how each book of the new testament is different.

Second of all, The dead sea scrolls DO contain variations. For instance different stories about abraham and variants in the book of enoch. For the most part the dead sea scrolls are in agreement with the Masoretic(Modern hebrew law) I don't see how this makes much of a difference. I don't ever recall saying the Masoretic texts bible had been changed in modern times.

And another thing, a theory is a theory,
you don't need the bible to back up the fact that there are other beings in this universe, and there's a reasonable change that they have a achieved a higher form of society. It's all about mathematics.

1."Theory" has various definitions. In science the definition of "Theory" is different then the laymen definition of theory. I've proven that.

2.How does the bible support "Other beings in this universe"? I don't know what you're trying to say here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

There are two uses of the word theory; a supposition which is not backed by observation is known as a conjecture, and if backed by observation it is a hypothesis. Most theory evolves from hypotheses, but the reverse is not true: many hypotheses turn out to be false and so do not evolve into theory.[/]

Ok...And?

This is the scientific usage. In science the modern laymen definition of "Theory" i.e a hunch is known as a "Conjecture" as that states.

The theory of Evolution(Different from evolution itself) isn't a conjecture since it's supported by observation..It's an accepted theory that came from a hypothesis.

[dontknowit]

First of all...The Dead sea scrolls only contains books of the HEBREW BIBLE not the new testament. So it has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying about how each book of the new testament is different.

Second of all, The dead sea scrolls DO contain variations. For instance different stories about abraham and variants in the book of enoch. For the most part the dead sea scrolls are in agreement with the Masoretic(Modern hebrew law) I don't see how this makes much of a difference. I don't ever recall saying the Masoretic texts bible had been changed in modern times.

No, you're implicing that today's books are copy's of copy's of copy's, and that for not correct,
while the dead sea scrolls acually proof that they haven't been altered.

1."Theory" has various definitions. In science the definition of "Theory" is different then the laymen definition of theory. I've proven that.

2.How does the bible support "Other beings in this universe"? I don't know what you're trying to say here.


Ok...And?

This is the scientific usage. In science the modern laymen definition of "Theory" i.e a hunch is known as a "Conjecture" as that states.

The theory of Evolution(Different from evolution itself) isn't a conjecture since it's supported by observation..It's an accepted theory that came from a hypothesis.

Do you know yourself what Evolution stands for?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html

Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.

As simple as that my friend. Changes, that's the definition of evolution.

Does it exclude outside interference? Nope.
Is there a reasonable change that outside life has contacted earth, yes. And I don't mean any kind of alien story crap, but there's a reasonable changes that microbes have travelled with comets/meteors with enough RNA/DNA to start life, or give it just the extra ingredient.

Is there a reasenable change that over time a microbe by abiogenisis has resulted in nature as we know it today. It's a possibility, nevertheless, the chances on that are in my opinion smaller.

Since the bigbang, the universe exist over billions of years,
planet earth only exist for 3-4 billions years. In this widespread area, I don't believe mankind is the first being around. And even if we find out if there is other life, it still doesn't exclude a greater being,
cause where/who the hell ignited the bom that resulted in a big-bang.


And by the way,
maybe you figured it out by my writingskills, but I'm not an American, I'm Dutch ,
yet teachers tought me on school that the founding fathers were merely Protestans who fleeded from Europe. The did believe in God, but not in the Pope en the Church of Rome as an institute.

[bigdumbbell]

newport, rhode island was settled by people of diverse faiths who accepted each other.   touro synagogue in newport was build in 1763 and is a national historic landmark. 

[dontknowit]

What do you mean by different faiths.

In the Netherlands we had different Christens, like Lutherans, Catholics, Reformed and off course Judes, but they didn't really believed in Jesus.
They all had different churches but they all believed in the same God.

In Europe protestans were prosequited during the inquisition, and they fleeded to the US, one of the reasons that there are so few catholics in America.

[bigdumbbell]

jews settled in newport rhode island

from the internet:   founded on the principle of absolute freedom of conscience. Most of the settlers were of the type of founders, antinomians and malcontents -- men who could not endure the rigors of Puritan theology, law, and custom. In fact, their spirit of freedom was extreme.

[bigdumbbell]

What do you mean by different faiths.

In the Netherlands we had different Christens, like Lutherans, Catholics, Reformed and off course Judes, but they didn't really believed in Jesus.
They all had different churches but they all believed in the same God.

In Europe protestans were prosequited during the inquisition, and they fleeded to the US, one of the reasons that there are so few catholics in America.

the state of maryland is named for the virgin mary and was settled by catholics

[Johnny Apollo]

No, you're implicing that today's books are copy's of copy's of copy's, and that for not correct,
while the dead sea scrolls acually proof that they haven't been altered.

Listen carefully...When I said "Copies of copies of copies" I was refering to the christian cannon not the jewish one.

Also the dead sea scrolls have been in caves for the past 2,000 years. How could they of been used as references?

Do you know yourself what Evolution stands for?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html As simple as that my friend. Changes, that's the definition of evolution.

I know just about all there is to know about evolution. That site does not disagree with me.

Does it exclude outside interference? Nope.

Is there a reasonable change that outside life has contacted earth, yes. And I don't mean any kind of alien story crap, but there's a reasonable changes that microbes have travelled with comets/meteors with enough RNA/DNA to start life, or give it just the extra ingredient.

Ok..Does the definition of evolution exclude "outside interference"? Yes and No. If by "Outside interference" you mean nature then no it doesn't. Nature effects evolution directly. Without natural selection there would be no evolution.
If by "Outside interference" you mean "Gods" than yes it does exclude that.

Also the hypothesis that life on earth came from distant planets via comets is called "Panspermia". This is an old idea that is for the most part no longer accepted. It's supported by zero evidence. Now what is accepted is "abiogenesis" as in life formed here on earth opposed to of came from other planets.

Is there a reasenable change that over time a microbe by abiogenisis has resulted in nature as we know it today. It's a possibility, nevertheless, the chances on that are in my opinion smaller.

Abiogenesis would of had to of happened if life as we know it appeared on earth or on another planet first..Regardless abiogenesis would of had to of happened.

Since the bigbang, the universe exist over billions of years,
planet earth only exist for 3-4 billions years. In this widespread area, I don't believe mankind is the first being around. And even if we find out if there is other life, it still doesn't exclude a greater being,
cause where/who the hell ignited the bom that resulted in a big-bang.

1.I agree. I believe there is life other than on earth also.

2.The "Big bang" is not an easy concept to understand. In fact it wasn't an explosion like a bomb or anything like that. It was a sudden expanson of space-time from the singularity. What caused it? I don't know. Just because I don't know doesn't mean some "God" did it.

And by the way,
maybe you figured it out by my writingskills, but I'm not an American, I'm Dutch ,
yet teachers tought me on school that the founding fathers were merely Protestans who fleeded from Europe. The did believe in God, but not in the Pope en the Church of Rome as an institute.

On the contrary most of our founding fathers were stonemason deists. Many were atheists or agnostics.

[Johnny Apollo]

What do you mean by different faiths.

In the Netherlands we had different Christens, like Lutherans, Catholics, Reformed and off course Judes, but they didn't really believed in Jesus.
They all had different churches but they all believed in the same God.

In Europe protestans were prosequited during the inquisition, and they fleeded to the US, one of the reasons that there are so few catholics in America.

24% of americans are catholics. 52% protestants.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

So there are alot of catholics.

[Johnny Apollo]

And growing every day thanks to latin immigration.

Most Catholics are pretty secular in their worldview, so more Catholics really isn't the worst thing that could happen. The fundamentalist protestants are the ones who scare the shit out of me... most of them aren't too different from the nutjob muslims over in the Middle East in their outlook.

Right,Right. You rarely see catholic creationism websites or catholic anti-gay websites or catholic this or that websites. All of those fundamentalist websites are from protestants.

However catholics take the cake when it comes to being delusional with all of their virgin mary sightings on old buildings or bridge overpasses!

I think..
Catholics are more delusional.
Protestants are more misguided.

Could be wrong though..

But I KNOW
Both are delusional and misguided.

[haider]

And growing every day thanks to latin immigration.

Most Catholics are pretty secular in their worldview, so more Catholics really isn't the worst thing that could happen. The fundamentalist protestants are the ones who scare the shit out of me... most of them aren't too different from the nutjob muslims over in the Middle East in their outlook.

yes, they are very scary, and the funny thing is that they hate the very people that are just like them (muslim fundi's), and suck up to the jews like there is no tomorrow. And the jews couldnt give two shits about christians, lol.

[CQ]

We have Christian 'missionaries' that come here to our 'backwards' country to educate us 'heathens'.

They disrespect our culture, run around accosting people and poke their noses in everything.

Plus, they tend to be real wierdos in general.

They are very disliked, to put it mildly

[Johnny Apollo]

We have Christian 'missionaries' that come here to our 'backwards' country to educate us 'heathens'.

They disrespect our culture, run around accosting people and poke their noses in everything.

Plus, they tend to be real wierdos in general.

They are very disliked, to put it mildly

Where?

[CQ]

She lives on some backwards island in the Caribbean. 

 !

Not anymore, I moved due to the fact that a volcano blew up and destroyed my house

Actually, I now live on the most 'advanced' nation here. Due to some gibberish I don't really understand about tax havens/reinsurance/offshore banking our economy is very strong. Our per capita income is approx equal to the US, as are our literacy rates, projected lifespan etc. The standard of living here is on par with any advanced nation.

But we still have foreign religious wackos acting as though we spend our days cannibalizing each other while wearing grass skirts

[dontknowit]

Don't make the mistake that wacko's are bringing the word of God.

If you go back to basic, like, let's say, ten commandments,

   1. "I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt..."

   2. "You shall have no other gods besides Me... Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

   3. "You shalt not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."

   4. "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"

   5. "Honor your father and your mother..."

   6. "You shall not murder"

   7. "You shall not commit adultery."
 
   8. "You shall not steal."

   9. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"

  10. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..."

What does it say,
One God and remember him, work 6 day a max, don't curse all day, remember your parents, don't kill, don't fuck other people wife's, don't steal, don't lie, and don't be jealous. One time God, 9 time decent rules.
So what exactly the point about God?

You can't claim that religious fanatics are representing God.

[CQ]

Don't make the mistake that wacko's are bringing the word of God.

Nah man, in this case they are wackos.

I am not disrespecting Christianity in any manner and never would.

But these guys are total fruits trust me.

And to make it more insulting, they constantly come around your house asking for financial donations to keep up their work.

[Johnny Apollo]

The bible itself encourages "Crusades" and missionary missions to convert "infidels" or kill them..Whichver is easier I guess.


The bible itself contains alot of contradictions concerning the 10 comandments and modern christians or jews don't even follow them.


   2. "You shall have no other gods besides Me... Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

Now is jesus god or isn't he? If he IS god then making pictures of him is blasphemy! If he isn't..The whole christian religion goes down into the crapper. So which is it?

   3. "You shalt not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."

This doesn't mean curse. All it means is praying in repetition. Something jews and christians do alot...

   4. "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"

 


   6. "You shall not murder"

This must of applied to "some" people "sometimes". Much like that whole "All men are created equal" while africans were considered less than whites at the time.

[dontknowit]

...
   2. "You shall have no other gods besides Me... Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

Now is jesus god or isn't he? If he IS god then making pictures of him is blasphemy! If he isn't..The whole christian religion goes down into the crapper. So which is it?

Protestans don't have images of Jesus

   3. "You shalt not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."

This doesn't mean curse. All it means is praying in repetition. Something jews and christians do alot...

Haha, lyer,
you're not allowed to make promises you can't keep, or say things that didn't happen. It's also supposed to include cursing.

   4. "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"

 

Work six days a week as a max, and keep the seventh for your family. As you remember,
going to church is a familything. Always has been . Your not supposed to pray all day,
you have to think of the things that are valuable to you.

   6. "You shall not murder"

This must of applied to "some" people "sometimes". Much like that whole "All men are created equal" while africans were considered less than whites at the time.

Cause africans were supposed to be other beings, living on the other side of the world,
but it wasn't a racial issue. You had Jews in all colors,
fe the Jews in Egypt were black.

[Mr. Intenseone]

The bible itself encourages "Crusades" and missionary missions to convert "infidels" or kill them..Whichver is easier I guess.

Yes...we go around killing people who don't agree with us !

[slippediskmountian]

if you did














there'd be nobody left with an IQ over 80

[Johnny Apollo]

Protestans don't have images of JesusHaha, lyer,

Sure they do. Go to any methodist church and you'll see plenty of them.

you're not allowed to make promises you can't keep, or say things that didn't happen. It's also supposed to include cursing.

The hebrew text doesn't say "curse" it says "Speak in vein". "IN vein" means praying to god in repetitions like pagans do.

Cause africans were supposed to be other beings, living on the other side of the world,
but it wasn't a racial issue. You had Jews in all colors,
fe the Jews in Egypt were black.

Jews in the ancient middle east were alot darker..Like muslims are today. But they weren't black.
Secondly there was no "Exodus" from egypt. If there were hundreds of thousands of jews living in the desert for 40 years there would be atleast some evidence of such..There isn't any. Egyptian history is very well put together and even the attempts to erase it by ancient phraohs have failed (Aten). If there were the events that happened in the bible..It would be on atleast some historical texts of the time in egypt. Yet it's on ZERO. Secondly who was this supposed pharoh who died? None of them fit the description of him or his death.