Author Topic: Liberalism Is A Disease  (Read 51522 times)

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #200 on: February 08, 2016, 06:27:12 PM »
You got owned and just like a little bitch just keep crying source source source, it's quite entertaining in it desperation...

I'm sure the picture of you bumbling around to get a rise out of me is akin to a retard humping a doorknob....mildly funny mostly sad.
???
I'm sorry.  I just don't feel that way at all.


Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #201 on: February 08, 2016, 06:31:21 PM »
???
I'm sorry.  I just don't feel that way at all.



When you're evolved enough to debate without sourcing each statement I'll be happy to enlighten you further.

mr.turbo

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #202 on: February 08, 2016, 06:41:59 PM »
you can call the nazi's socialists but it strikes me a an attempt to confuse the issue by focusing on price controls etc.

hell you can call nazis liberals too wtf may as well, if you don't want to support your arguments.

nobody serious claims nazis are socialists, it was a fascist regime opposed to both communism and capitalism.
"

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #203 on: February 08, 2016, 07:05:50 PM »
you can call the nazi's socialists but it strikes me a an attempt to confuse the issue by focusing on price controls etc.

hell you can call nazis liberals too wtf may as well, if you don't want to support your arguments.

nobody serious claims nazis are socialists, it was a fascist regime opposed to both communism and capitalism.


If we're talking economic policy I am confident I can make a good case for socialism as an economic policy in nazi Germany's.....

If we're talking social polices I cannot, unless we agree on a totalitarian socialist model as a comparison....then I'd give it a twirl

I am a finance major so the economic aspects interest me much more than the social ones.

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #204 on: February 08, 2016, 07:27:40 PM »
When you're evolved enough to debate without sourcing each statement I'll be happy to enlighten you further.
And here it should have been easy for you to do if you read the books that you claimed. (we all know you didn't)


Oh well.  

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #205 on: February 08, 2016, 07:28:40 PM »
If we're talking economic policy I am confident I can make a good case for socialism as an economic policy in nazi Germany's.....

If we're talking social polices I cannot, unless we agree on a totalitarian socialist model as a comparison....then I'd give it a twirl

I am a finance major so the economic aspects interest me much more than the social ones.
How did Nazi "Socialism" provide for the Jews in Germany and the other countries Hitler took over?  ???

mr.turbo

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #206 on: February 08, 2016, 08:27:45 PM »
If we're talking economic policy I am confident I can make a good case for socialism as an economic policy in nazi Germany's.....

If we're talking social polices I cannot, unless we agree on a totalitarian socialist model as a comparison....then I'd give it a twirl

I am a finance major so the economic aspects interest me much more than the social ones.

like I said, it's a little confusing when you want to isolate "socialism" from it's "social policies".   But go ahead give it a whirl and let us know the effects of these so-called socialist economic policies (under the nazis) , if they were effective and so on.
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Griffith

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #207 on: February 08, 2016, 08:34:55 PM »
you can call the nazi's socialists but it strikes me a an attempt to confuse the issue by focusing on price controls etc.

hell you can call nazis liberals too wtf may as well, if you don't want to support your arguments.

nobody serious claims nazis are socialists, it was a fascist regime opposed to both communism and capitalism.


'National Socialist' Party.

mr.turbo

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #208 on: February 08, 2016, 09:03:43 PM »
'National Socialist' Party.

haha yes the nazis were left wing liberals, don't forget to tell the historians the news.
"

The Scott

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #209 on: February 08, 2016, 09:45:49 PM »
Socialism was tried by the Pilgrims when they landed at Plymouth Rock.  It failed miserably.

As well it should.  If any here want to live in a "socialist utopia" do not seek to satisfy your thirst for blood (read:money) by draining it from others.  Slash your own wrists instead and feed off your own lazy ass instead of the working men and women of the world.

Vampires come in many forms.  Always have.  Always will.    No one owes the dead (read: lazy) a living.


The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #210 on: February 08, 2016, 09:56:23 PM »
'National Socialist' Party.
And North Korea is a Democratic Republic.  Right?

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #211 on: February 08, 2016, 10:00:33 PM »
Socialism was tried by the Pilgrims when they landed at Plymouth Rock.  It failed miserably.

As well it should.  If any here want to live in a "socialist utopia" do not seek to satisfy your thirst for blood (read:money) by draining it from others.  Slash your own wrists instead and feed off your own lazy ass instead of the working men and women of the world.

Vampires come in many forms.  Always have.  Always will.    No one owes the dead (read: lazy) a living.


http://www.crf-usa.org/foundations-of-our-constitution/mayflower-compact.html
Actually, that is not correct.



Self-Government Takes Root

Immediately after agreeing to the Mayflower Compact, the signers elected John Carver (one of the Pilgrim leaders) as governor of their colony. They called it Plymouth Plantation. When Governor Carver died in less than a year, William Bradford, age 31, replaced him. Each year thereafter the "Civil Body Politic," consisting of all adult males except indentured servants, assembled to elect the governor and a small number of assistants. Bradford was re-elected 30 times between 1621 and 1656.

In the early years Governor Bradford pretty much decided how the colony should be run. Few objected to his one-man rule. As the colony's population grew due to immigration, several new towns came into existence. The roving and increasingly scattered population found it difficult to attend the General Court, as the governing meetings at Plymouth came to be called. By 1639, deputies were sent to represent each town at the other General Court sessions. Not only self-rule, but representative government had taken root on American soil.

The English Magna Carta, written more than 400 years before the Mayflower Compact, established the principle of the rule of law. In England this still mostly meant the king's law. The Mayflower Compact continued the idea of law made by the people. This idea lies at the heart of democracy.

From its crude beginning in Plymouth, self-government evolved into the town meetings of New England and larger local governments in colonial America. By the time of the Constitutional Convention, the Mayflower Compact had been nearly forgotten, but the powerful idea of self-government had not. Born out of necessity on the Mayflower, the Compact made a significant contribution to the creation of a new democratic nation.

The complete text of the Mayflower Compact

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #212 on: February 08, 2016, 10:02:11 PM »
Socialism was tried by the Pilgrims when they landed at Plymouth Rock.  It failed miserably.

As well it should.  If any here want to live in a "socialist utopia" do not seek to satisfy your thirst for blood (read:money) by draining it from others.  Slash your own wrists instead and feed off your own lazy ass instead of the working men and women of the world.

Vampires come in many forms.  Always have.  Always will.    No one owes the dead (read: lazy) a living.


More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Colony#Government_and_laws

Government and laws
Organization

The Book of the General Laws of the Inhabitants of the Jurisdiction of New-Plimouth. Boston: Samuel Green, 1685

Plymouth Colony did not have a royal charter authorizing it to form a government. Still, some means of governance was needed; the Mayflower Compact, signed by the 41 able-bodied Separatists aboard the Mayflower upon their arrival in Provincetown Harbor on November 21, 1620, was the colony's first governing document. Formal laws were not codified until 1636. The colony's laws were based on a hybrid of English common law and religious law as laid out in the Bible.[88] Deeply influenced by Calvinist theology, the colonial authorities were convinced that democracy was the form of government mandated by God.[114]

The colony offered nearly all adult males potential citizenship in the colony. Full citizens, or "freemen", were accorded full rights and privileges in areas such as voting and holding office. To be considered a freeman, adult males had to be sponsored by an existing freeman and accepted by the General Court. Later restrictions established a one-year waiting period between nominating and granting of freeman status and also placed religious restrictions on the colony's citizens, specifically preventing Quakers from becoming freemen.[88] Freeman status was also restricted by age; while the official minimum age was 21, in practice most men were elevated to freeman status between the ages of 25 and 40, averaging somewhere in their early thirties.[115]

Governors of Plymouth Colony[116]
Dates    Governor
1620    John Carver
1621–1632    William Bradford
1633    Edward Winslow
1634    Thomas Prence
1635    William Bradford
1636    Edward Winslow
1637    William Bradford
1638    Thomas Prence
1639–1643    William Bradford
1644    Edward Winslow
1645–1656    William Bradford
1657–1672    Thomas Prence
1673–1679    Josiah Winslow
1680–1692    Thomas Hinckley

The colony's most powerful executive was its Governor, who was originally elected by the freemen, but was later appointed by the General Court in an annual election. The General Court also elected seven "Assistants" to form a cabinet to assist the governor. The Governor and Assistants then appointed "Constables" who served as the chief administrators for the towns and "Messengers" who were the main civil servants of the colony. They were responsible for publishing announcements, performing land surveys, carrying out executions, and a host of other duties.[88]

The General Court was both the chief legislative and judicial body of the colony. It was elected by the freemen from among their own number and met regularly in Plymouth, the capital town of the colony. As part of its judicial duties, it would periodically call a Grand Enquest, which was a grand jury of sorts, elected from the freemen, who would hear complaints and swear out indictments for credible accusations. The General Court, and later lesser town and county courts, would preside over trials of accused criminals and over civil matters, but the ultimate decisions were made by a jury of freemen.[88]

The General Court as both the legislative and judicial body and the Governor as the chief executive of the colony constituted a political system of division of power. It followed a recommendation in John Calvin's political theory to set up several institutions which complement and control each other in a system of checks and balances in order to avoid, or at least to minimize, the misuse of political power.[117] In 1625 the settlers had repaid their debts and thus gained complete possession of the colony.[118] As neither an English company nor the King or Parliament exerted any influence, the colony was de facto a republic, a representative, identitary democracy governed on the principles of the Mayflower Compact ("self-rule").
Laws

As a legislative body, the General Court could make proclamations of law as needed. In the early years of the colony, these laws were not formally compiled anywhere. In 1636 these laws were first organized and published in the 1636 Book of Laws. The book was reissued in 1658, 1672, and 1685.[88] Among these laws included the levying of "rates", or taxes, and the distribution of colony lands.[119] The General Court established townships as a means of providing local government over settlements, but reserved for itself the right to control specific distribution of land to individuals within those towns. When new land was granted to a freeman, it was directed that only the person to whom the land was granted was allowed to settle it.[120] It was forbidden for individual settlers to purchase land from Native Americans without formal permission from the General Court.[121] The government recognized the precarious peace that existed with the Wampanoag, and wished to avoid antagonizing them by buying up all of their land.[122]

The laws also set out crimes and their associated punishment. There were several crimes that carried the death penalty: treason, murder, witchcraft, arson, sodomy, rape, bestiality, adultery, and cursing or smiting one's parents.[123] The actual exercise of the death penalty was fairly rare; only one sex-related crime, a 1642 incidence of bestiality by Thomas Granger, resulted in execution.[124] One person, Edward Bumpus, was sentenced to death for "striking and abusing his parents" in 1679, but his sentence was commuted to a severe whipping by reason of insanity.[125] Perhaps the most notable use of the death penalty was in the execution of the Native Americans convicted of the murder of John Sassamon; this helped lead to King Philip's War.[126] Though nominally a capital crime, adultery was usually dealt with by public humiliation only. Convicted adulterers were often forced to wear the letters "A.D." sewn into their garments, much in the manner of Hester Prynne in Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel The Scarlet Letter.[127][128][129]

Several laws dealt with indentured servitude, a legal status whereby a person would work off debts or be given training in exchange for a period of unrecompensed service. The law required that all indentured servants had to be registered by the Governor or one of the Assistants, and that no period of indenture could be less than six months. Further laws forbade a master from shortening the length of time of service required for his servant, and also confirmed that any indentured servants whose period of service began in England would still be required to complete their service while in Plymouth.[130]

Griffith

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #213 on: February 08, 2016, 10:11:16 PM »
And North Korea is a Democratic Republic.  Right?

The National Socialists were economically left, ran a socialist state and were against bourgeoisie culture. 

Their speeches also mention the bringing an end of class divide and fighting against the 'Plutocracies' of the West and their speculators and bankers.

They were anti-capitalist.


The Scott

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #214 on: February 08, 2016, 10:24:15 PM »
http://www.crf-usa.org/foundations-of-our-constitution/mayflower-compact.html
Actually, that is not correct.

Actually, it is.

In the 4th grade in Virginia we were taught about the colonization of this country sans the re-writing that seems to flourish these days.  Yes, in the 4th grade.

Socialism was attempted and it failed.  Again, as it should. 

I don't believe you to be a vampire, why then do you play the role of thrall?  This experiment in socialism was well documented.  It is historical fact.  Given that it was an attempt at socialism it is also hysterical fact. ;D

You cannot re-write history.  Well...You can it's just that it's just called "lying" when someone does it.  For an example read most any of the drivel Wiggs posits here about "hebrews".   ;D

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #215 on: February 08, 2016, 11:48:42 PM »
Actually, it is.

In the 4th grade in Virginia we were taught about the colonization of this country sans the re-writing that seems to flourish these days.  Yes, in the 4th grade.

Socialism was attempted and it failed.  Again, as it should. 

I don't believe you to be a vampire, why then do you play the role of thrall?  This experiment in socialism was well documented.  It is historical fact.  Given that it was an attempt at socialism it is also hysterical fact. ;D

You cannot re-write history.  Well...You can it's just that it's just called "lying" when someone does it.  For an example read most any of the drivel Wiggs posits here about "hebrews".   ;D
That just does not line up with what actually took place in Plymouth.  No wonder why so many are fucked these days.  The teachers missed opportunity after opportunity of teaching fact, but instead, chose fiction.

They always say things learned as children are the hardest beliefs to shake.

Yamcha

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #216 on: February 09, 2016, 04:58:32 AM »
a

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #217 on: February 09, 2016, 07:59:31 AM »
How did Nazi "Socialism" provide for the Jews in Germany and the other countries Hitler took over?  ???

I'll give it a shot...

Free government housing, free transportation, free food and clothing, government supplied employment....free relocation services, redistribution of wealth equally, free gas. Government provided burial services.


Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #218 on: February 09, 2016, 09:08:29 AM »
I’m not arguing in favour of any side of the political spectrum here, but In defence of my argument towards Obsidians moronic claim that Hitler was a democratic socialist i would firstly say that there is nothing democratic about the way he ousted and killed his own party members, the Strasser brothers, who were actually in favour of supporting trade unions, the right to strike, sympathetic towards the USSR and believed the Nazi party should be true towards socialism and workers rights. Nor was it democratic of him to round up and arrest and/or kill various socialists and communists.
Hitler strove for national unity through conscripting both workers and industrialists as part of a corporate agenda which specifically opposed and sought to prevent a class war. He dismantled trade unions and argued that so long as industrialists acted in the national interest, they can keep their property. He aimed to mould Germany into a strong nation based on racial identity and he used his confused, fascist ideology to enforce it. I understand what you’re saying when you say the only points that can be argued are the “brand of socialism”, as it may be true that Hitler used elements of socialist economics at times; being a finance major i would concede that you know a lot more with regards to this area than me, but i would still say it’s disingenuous to claim that Hitler and the Nazis were socialists. I believe even Hayek advocated a minimum social safety net in order to prevent the poorest turning to radical means of survival, yet I’m sure we would all agree it would be quite a stretch to call him a socialist.

I remember a discussion on WW2 between Christopher Hitchens and Victor Davis Hanson and dug up the quote where Hitchens says: “ If you read the conversations between Lindemann, Churchill and his advisors on aerial bombing, they say ‘we recommend that you bomb the working class areas of Hamburg, because the houses are closer together, the people are packed more tightly-you’ll get more deaths per bomb’ and remember, these are the areas of Germany that have never voted for Hitler; Hitler, i think i'm right in saying had never even visited Hamburg when he was chancellor because he knew he was hated there; it was a socialist, working-class city."

In 1937, the US state department had even described Hitler as a moderate, standing between the extremes of left and right, and a good guy that the business class liked and could work with. (Chomsky 2009)

To debate the brand of socialism that could be aligned with Hitler would be, I believe, to Ignore the entire point that Orwell was making about Stalin in Animal Farm.

good response, thank you! much to consider


markofan

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #219 on: February 09, 2016, 09:35:09 AM »
you can call the nazi's socialists but it strikes me a an attempt to confuse the issue by focusing on price controls etc.

hell you can call nazis liberals too wtf may as well, if you don't want to support your arguments.

nobody serious claims nazis are socialists, it was a fascist regime opposed to both communism and capitalism.


The nazis WERE socialists, just a different side of a multi-sided coin, along with the Italian fascists and Russian communists.





7 quotes that prove Hitler was a socialist

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/7-quotes-prove-adolf-hitler-proud-socialist/

Griffith

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #220 on: February 09, 2016, 09:46:10 AM »
The nazis WERE socialists, just a different side of a multi-sided coin, along with the Italian fascists and Russian communists.





7 quotes that prove Hitler was a socialist

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/7-quotes-prove-adolf-hitler-proud-socialist/

Correct.

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #221 on: February 09, 2016, 10:44:13 AM »
The nazis WERE socialists, just a different side of a multi-sided coin, along with the Italian fascists and Russian communists.





7 quotes that prove Hitler was a socialist

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/7-quotes-prove-adolf-hitler-proud-socialist/
::)

Tedim

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #222 on: February 09, 2016, 11:11:23 AM »
It would probably be useful to define socialism, and then to separate the different socialistic ideologies. After that it would be easier to argue the shortcomings of socialism and merits (if there are any).

The True Adonis

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #223 on: February 09, 2016, 11:12:19 AM »
It would probably be useful to define socialism, and then to separate the different socialistic ideologies. After that it would be easier to argue the shortcomings of socialism and merits (if there are any).

Voice of Doom

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Re: Liberalism Is A Disease
« Reply #224 on: February 09, 2016, 03:56:51 PM »
"A Liberal is a power worshipper without the power" - George Orwell