UK referendum on EU membership June 23rd

[Conker]

The referendum is a sham. The UK's membership in the EU is not in question. This was just a way for Cameron to solve the problems within his party, so his glassy-eyed, Euro-hating backbenchers wouldn't rebel like they did with Major in 92.

Cameron chose to elevate a party management problem into a national issue. Politics uber alles.

that is partly correct. it is a way for cameron to put the tory eurosceptics to bed for good. but when ukip got more votes than any mainstream party in the last euro election, that pretty much did make it a national issue and legitimised a referendum.

[bigmc]

you are morally obliged to take refugees when you are greatly responsible for causing the refugees.

you're falling for the BS right wing propaganda. the vast majority of syrian civilians do not support sharia law. syria was a secular state before we helped jihadis grab large swathes of the country.

no i am not

i agree most are moderate but the harsh reality is the muslim and western cultures dont integrate well

different values and principles completely different cultures

even the moderate muslims live n their own communities and stay apart

and there is enough of the lunatics to reduce the safety of our children

so unfortunately fuck all of them

we gave a duty to protect our own population and any risk to that is unacceptable

you are falling for the moderate bleeding liberals who are just as bad as the far right

form your own opinion on the facts not some liberal nonsense that sounds good at dinners parties as you eat your tofu

[Conker]

no i am not

i agree most are moderate but the harsh reality is the muslim and western cultures dont integrate well

different values and principles completely different cultures

even the moderate muslims live n their own communities and stay apart

and there is enough of the lunatics to reduce the safety of our children

so unfortunately fuck all of them

we gave a duty to protect our own population and any risk to that is unacceptable

you are falling for the moderate bleeding liberals who are just as bad as the far right

form your own opinion on the facts not some liberal nonsense that sounds good at dinners parties as you eat your tofu

i'm neither a liberal nor a conservative or anything else. i form my opinions on the merits of each issue.

do you accept that the US and co (uk included) are greatly responsible for the mess in syria?

if your answer is yes, then it's beyond ridiculous to say we have no responsibility to take a significant number of the refugees.

who says moderate muslims don't integrate well? what problems has the UK really had with moderate muslim immigrants in the past?
turkish immigrants (another secular muslim country) have done well in the uk.

people stay in their own communities across plenty of lines . the irish , jews, greeks, turks, indians all tend to live within their own communities. even across class groups, working/middle/upper classes .....tend to be pretty tribal.

your problem is you probably have little grasp of "the facts" that's why your opinions are half baked and have no substance.

[Thin Lizzy]

Yeah, Syria was a real heaven on earth before all this:

[bigmc]

your problem is you probably have little grasp of "the facts" that's why your opinions are half baked and have no substance

this sentence sums the bleeding heart liberals up

telling others what their opinions are

so that they can spew their nonsense

learn the facts my friend all of them and form your own opinion

rather than tell me i probably dont know them

[Thin Lizzy]

And what was the Ideology that turned Syria into such an Economic powerhouse?


Maybe Bernie Sanders should let them all crash at his crib:

[Conker]

your problem is you probably have little grasp of "the facts" that's why your opinions are half baked and have no substance

this sentence sums the bleeding heart liberals up

telling others what their opinions are

so that they can spew their nonsense

learn the facts my friend all of them and form your own opinion

rather than tell me i probably dont know them

sure thing buddy.

you should probably stick to to arguing whether joon is a real g or not or whether or not donny wears women's underwear.

that kind of stuff seems to be more your forte.  

[Griffith]

you are morally obliged to take refugees when you are greatly responsible for causing the refugees.

you're falling for the BS right wing propaganda. the vast majority of syrian civilians do not support sharia law. syria was a secular state before we helped jihadis grab large swathes of the country.

Most of the illegal immigrants are not Syrians, they're from any Middle Eastern country and arriving without security checks or documents and allowed to stay.

These are double-standards since people from other countries with qualifications and documents will be deported if they do not follow the set procedures.

[Conker]

And what was the Ideology that turned Syria into such an Economic powerhouse?


Maybe Bernie Sanders should let them all crash at his crib:

who said they were an "economic powerhouse"?

here's a bit more for you from wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Syria

"The process of secularization in Syria began under the French mandate in the 1920s and went on continuously under different governments since the independence. Syria has been governed by the Arab nationalist Baath Party since 1963. The Baath regime combined Arab Socialism with secular ideology and an authoritarian political system. The constitution guarantees religious freedom for every recognized religious communities, including many Christian denominations"

Assad was actually seen as a progressive and opposed by many in his own government for trying to reform syria more towards being a free market economy.

[Conker]

Most of the illegal immigrants are not Syrians, they're from any Middle Eastern country and arriving without security checks or documents and allowed to stay.

These are double-standards since people from other countries with qualifications and documents will be deported if they do not follow the set procedures.

agreed, probably a good number of north africans in there too trying to pass themselves off as syrians.

it's simple though really, if we didn't stir up trouble and bomb the shit out of this region, there likely wouldn't be such a severe refugee crisis for anyone to hijack.

[Griffith]

agreed, probably a good number of north africans in there too trying to pass themselves off as syrians.

it's simple though really, if we didn't stir up trouble and bomb the shit out of this region, there likely wouldn't be such a severe refugee crisis for anyone to hijack.

I agree that the governments of America and much of Europe should have left the region alone and I have always said this, but for the entire future of Europe to be compromised because of a cabal of idiotic politicians is also not right.

[_aj_]

IIRC, the EU doesn't allow anybody to leave. You can have all the referendums you want, but you put your collective national balls in a jar when you signed Maastricht. Sorry.

[Thin Lizzy]

I agree that the governments of America and much of Europe should have left the region alone and I have always said this, but for the entire future of Europe to be compromised because of a cabal of idiotic politicians is also not right.

I happen to agree with this, as well.

But, let's not forget that the "stirring up" was the taking out of a brutal dictator.

It's fair to ask why is it that the best case scenario for the Middle East is the countries being run by a collection of thugs that keep a lid on sectarian fighting?

[Irongrip400]

London mayor Boris Johnson to campaign for an exit. Does this help or hurt the cause, the mayor of Londonistan throwing his weight behind it?

[local hero]

I happen to agree with this, as well.

But, let's not forget that the "stirring up" was the taking out of a brutal dictator.

It's fair to ask why is it that the best case scenario for the Middle East is the countries being run by a collection of thugs that keep a lid on sectarian fighting?

We were best friends with these brutal dictators only 5mins ago, we cease to be friendly when it no longer suits our interests.

You need dictatorships or brutal military regimes to keep the peace as has been seen over and over, yet we still wont back Assad as we manoeuvre/play games with russia

[SuperTed]

The Western nations should have all backed Assad and the Kurds the moment the problems in Syria started. The Jihadists would have been long defeated by now. Instead, the US and UK have their own agenda, often arm the radical Islamists (while claiming to fight "terror") and make matters worse in the region. That's why Putin is the only leader that has my respect. He understands who the real threat's are and doesn't indulge in crafty games.

Are the West responsible for the mess in Syria? Partly yes, although the stem of the problem is the brainwashed, sectarian population within the Middle East.
Should the European nations take in refugees? I'd say yes to the women and children (especially those of Christian and Yazidi backgrounds) but most certainly not to the single young Sunni men.

[Raymondo]

It's fair to ask why is it that the best case scenario for the Middle East is the countries being run by a collection of thugs that keep a lid on sectarian fighting?

Because of the nature of these societies. They have no conception of fidelity, which is central to our way of living. That's why democracy does not work in places like Iraq and one of the reasons dictatorships are a tolerable solution. In the Middle East, the idea that you will vote for someone to represent you is totally absurd, especially when that someone was not born in exactly the same geographical location (see: village) as you. There is no good faith in an elected representative, or indeed, anyone your family does not know personally. Their affairs are handled on a village-by-village basis, by a small band of elderly men, who act as administrators, lawyers, judges, representatives, businessmen, depending on the occasion. To us, this luck of trust is paranoid, to them, our concept of good faith is naive.

[Thin Lizzy]

Because of the nature of these societies. They have no conception of fidelity, which is central to our way of living. That's why democracy does not work in places like Iraq and one of the reasons dictatorships are a tolerable solution. In the Middle East, the idea that you will vote for someone to represent you is totally absurd, especially when that someone was not born in exactly the same geographical location (see: village) as you. There is no good faith in an elected representative, or indeed, anyone your family does not know personally. Their affairs are handled on a village-by-village basis, by a small band of elderly men, who act as administrators, lawyers, judges, representatives, businessmen, depending on the occasion. To us, this luck of trust is paranoid, to them, our concept of good faith is naive.

Great post.

It reminded me of an interview I heard with a reporter who had a lot spent of time in Syria. He said everyone remotely involved with Assad's regime was either his brother, cousin, or brother-in-law.

[Rusty Trombone]

Merkel actions last November have killed the eu

And yet....

[shootfighter1]

i'm neither a liberal nor a conservative or anything else. i form my opinions on the merits of each issue.

do you accept that the US and co (uk included) are greatly responsible for the mess in syria?

if your answer is yes, then it's beyond ridiculous to say we have no responsibility to take a significant number of the refugees.

who says moderate muslims don't integrate well? what problems has the UK really had with moderate muslim immigrants in the past?
turkish immigrants (another secular muslim country) have done well in the uk.

people stay in their own communities across plenty of lines . the irish , jews, greeks, turks, indians all tend to live within their own communities. even across class groups, working/middle/upper classes .....tend to be pretty tribal.

your problem is you probably have little grasp of "the facts" that's why your opinions are half baked and have no substance.

Muslim countries have been fighting each other over religion for centuries...1000yrs+ actually.  No, the US and UK are not PRIMARILY responsible for their continued wars.  They need to change their countries from within.  US and UK can support as a coalition of countries to promote peace...perhaps safe havens.  Relocating millions of muslims to UK, US and Western Europe that don't want to assimilate and have very different laws and culture is not best for anyone.  We are also responsible for our people first.

[polychronopolous]

i'm neither a liberal nor a conservative or anything else. i form my opinions on the merits of each issue.

do you accept that the US and co (uk included) are greatly responsible for the mess in syria?

if your answer is yes, then it's beyond ridiculous to say we have no responsibility to take a significant number of the refugees.

who says moderate muslims don't integrate well? what problems has the UK really had with moderate muslim immigrants in the past?
turkish immigrants (another secular muslim country) have done well in the uk.

people stay in their own communities across plenty of lines . the irish , jews, greeks, turks, indians all tend to live within their own communities. even across class groups, working/middle/upper classes .....tend to be pretty tribal.

your problem is you probably have little grasp of "the facts" that's why your opinions are half baked and have no substance.

On some level you have to envy people who can go thru life with their heads up their asses like this guy ^^

[nzmusclemonster]

Cocker outing himself as a power bottom in this thread.

[Donny]

Britain to far gone already for opting out to give them any real benefit the immigrant population will eventually breed them into minority status. Glad i left the shite hole, lazy native population sew the seeds of today by opting for welfare over work a generation or so ago, pushing politicians to the easy decision of bringing in cheaper immigrant labour, basket case thats been copied all over the world only thing is today its even worse, most refugees these days are just looking to live as welfare supported immigrants not embrace the country they arrive in for opportunity, like Europe needs more people with their unemployment numbers and financial position. Worlds gone mad most politicians more concerned with if Steve can marry Larry than the  real issues confronting the population.  Outside of Putin there aren't any politicians anymore just populists.

Is always makes me wonder how many Putin lovers have themselves lived in Russia. Most Russians i know are glad to be away. After all, there are no Human rights violations and Corruption in Russia is there?

[falco]

Since London Germany controls the US and Europe this is just show.

Fixed.

[Skylge]

A lot of big companies and bank-white collar criminals are now working on ways / campaigns of how to scare the British people. That's how the EU maffia always works. Lies and fear spreading. And only driven by their own greed.

EU = only good for non tax paying multinationals and the large group of EU bureaucrats.