The BLM movement; Black Lies Matter

[The True Adonis]

these are excellent questions. I don't think there's anything special about this moment though since the system is rigged against pretty much all voters and has been for decades. I'm stunned with the support bernie has gathered. people almost never support the own interests politically. it's very unusual to see.

The truth is its not a well organised community and it will simply take some work to get that done. the way to do it is by working within the rights protest framework and capitalizing on that energy.

I don't think anything is rigged.  Thats a cop out.  People have a choice.  Its simple to learn about Bernie Sanders and his policies and compare them Hilary Clinton and make a judgement as to which platform is best suited for themselves and for America.  Yet they do not do this.  I really think its nostalgia for the 90s.  I think even Vince Goodrum is under that spell, stuck in the 90s.


Unless you want the Democratic party to move further to the right, then it makes sense.  But is that what they want?

[Las Vegas]

I don't think anything is rigged.  Thats a cop out.  People have a choice.  Its simple to learn about Bernie Sanders and his policies and compare them Hilary Clinton and make a judgement as to which platform is best suited for themselves and for America.  Yet they do not do this.  I really think its nostalgia for the 90s.  I think even Vince Goodrum is under that spell, stuck in the 90s.


Unless you want the Democratic party to move further to the right, then it makes sense.  But is that what they want?

I do, too.  I think you hit that one right on the button.  And that's for the few who even bothered to give it a moment of thought.

Pretty superficial, sad, ridiculous, stupid and meaningless way to make decisions.  I'll admit to being very disappointed with the A-As.  I thought they may grab their chance to rise above -- but they failed.  

So far, at least, that's true.  Let's hope the rest of them think about the mistakes made in SC and NV.

[The True Adonis]

I do, too.  I think you hit that one right on the button.  And that's for the few who even bothered to give it a moment of thought.

Pretty superficial, sad, ridiculous, stupid and meaningless way to make decisions.  I'll admit to being very disappointed with the A-As.  I thought they may grab their chance to rise above -- but they failed.  

So far, at least, that's true.  Let's hope the rest of them think about the mistakes made in SC and NV.

Bernie is still very much in it as he does not have to worry about AA's to get the big delegate counts in states that favor him.

[mr.turbo]

I don't think anything is rigged.  Thats a cop out.  People have a choice.  Its simple to learn about Bernie Sanders and his policies and compare them Hilary Clinton and make a judgement as to which platform is best suited for themselves and for America.  Yet they do not do this.  I really think its nostalgia for the 90s.  I think even Vince Goodrum is under that spell, stuck in the 90s.


Unless you want the Democratic party to move further to the right, then it makes sense.  But is that what they want?

you need about 1 billion dollars to run a campaign. so you can choose between the people who can mobilize that amount of money. thats just a general observation. That said I do agree Bernie represents a change.

As for Clinton, the mindset is that people will stick with what they know. Is it dysfunctional? Probably. Is it rational? probably not. Black people like Bill Clinton, this is not news. Bernie has a lot of work to do.

[polychronopolous]

Farrakhan: Don’t Fall For ‘Satan’ Hillary Clinton’s ‘Crap’



Sunday at the Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan said don’t “fall” for Democartic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s “crap” on African-American issues because she and her husband, former President Bill Clinton are responsible for mass incarceration of black people.

Farrakhan said, “How many of you are going to vote for Hillary Clinton? You don’t have to raise your hands. I do not blame you for wanting a female president, but that is a wicked woman. She can be sweet but so can you. And you know when you are sweet but playing a game.  All of a sudden she knows about Trayvon Martin. All of a sudden—the boy’s been dead two years now—she talking about him like she met the mother and oh…  White people this is Satan. And you fall for that crap? Most of you went to jail for having a little blunt. They arranged that—the Clintons. Mass incarceration  came about under the Clintons, Don’t forget that. They call my young gang bangers super predators. And Black Lives Matter put it to her—she didn’t know how to handle that. Call you a super predator, that has no conscience, no sense of  dignity like you are a dog, an animal. She gotta bring you to heal you my young brothers. This is what she said about you and she didn’t just say it—it became law and policy of the U.S. government under Bill Clinton and his wife, and now she is apologizing, but apologizing can’t bring back the broken families. Apologizing cant bring back those that been destroyed in prison life.”

[The True Adonis]

you need about 1 billion dollars to run a campaign. so you can choose between the people who can mobilized that amount of money. thats just a general observation. That said I do agree Bernie represents a change.

As for Clinton, the mindset is that people will stick with what they know. Is it dysfunctional? Probably. Is it rational? probably not. Black people like Bill Clinton, this is not news. Bernie has a lot of work to do.

Why do they like Bill Clinton?  Nostalgia for the 90s?  He is directly responsible for more blacks in jail and in poverty than any other president to date, including Republicans.  George W. did more for blacks than Clinton, yet they love him.

I think its nostalgia for the 90s, false meme, and they are amused by him getting a blowjob in the whitehouse-something that amuses the black community writ large.  It has ZERO to do with actual policies and programs.

They have access to all the information needed to make a judgement based on facts, yet they don't. From that I can only conclude that they are stupid.

[Las Vegas]

Bernie is still very much in it as he does not have to worry about AA's to get the big delegate counts in states that favor him.

It's true that the longer people are exposed to Hillary, the less they trust her.  So maybe there's some hope.

[mr.turbo]

Why do they like Bill Clinton?  Nostalgia for the 90s?  He is directly responsible for more blacks in jail and in poverty than any other president to date, including Republicans.  George W. did more for blacks than Clinton, yet they love him.

I think its nostalgia for the 90s, false meme, and they are amused by him getting a blowjob in the whitehouse-something that amuses the black community writ large.  It has ZERO to do with actual policies and programs.

They have access to all the information needed to make a judgement based on facts, yet they don't. From that I can only conclude that they are stupid.

nobody wins an election with policy...look at what trump did to Jeb hahaha it's all about soundbites.

Bernie doesn't poll high because of his policies either it's because people say he seems honest

[The Scott]

i'm not sure if you quoted the wrong post or something but nothing you posted really has any relevance to anything i posted.

who was talking about criminals or gangsta lifestyle or any other nonsense.

im talking about an expectation that the law treats all sections of society equally.

if you already think that happens then i don't suppose you would think there is any problem anyway.

There is nothing civilized about being a criminal and the aptly termed "gangsta" lifestyle is anything  but civilization personified.

 
“To have once been a criminal is no disgrace. To remain a criminal is the disgrace.”     

I seriously doubt the author of this meant that laws should be changed to favor criminals of color over criminals of non-color.  Those words speak the truth for all men.  It's called justice, not just us.


It's not a crime to be black or white and no one should be punished for either but some people see evil everywhere but within.   Go look into a mirror to see that which is holding you back.  That goes for everyone.   

The bold print speaks more directly toward your concerns. 

As do the words of Theodore Roosevelt - "No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it."

And in the event you missed them the first time you read them, these are from Malcom X- “To have once been a criminal is no disgrace. To remain a criminal is the disgrace.” 

Actually, my entire post speaks to your concerns but I can understand pick and choose.  We all do it.

[Al Doggity]

I would argue the community has no choice but to have heavy police presence in these areas because of the sheer #s of crime if left unattended (so many even with police presence).  The officers will say that assertive policing has reduced overall crime.  Its a fine line, I agree.  Left alone, many of these areas will erupt into crime and chaos, it is the truth.  Cops should never beat up on people, I support an individual's rights (until they commit crimes then I am less forgiving).  In these neighborhoods, by the way I lived in a low income inner city neighborhood for a couple yrs end of college, the criminals will prey upon the innocent and weak in these communities....you probably know that to be true. 1st day my friends and I moved in guy came over trying to sell us crack, happened a couple times, then people broken our windows later, then guy nearly stole my friend's car till he chased after him, heard yelling commonly, and occasional shots.  After a while people left us alone thankfully but if you don't stick up for yourself, you'll be a victim.  If police aren't tough, they will be victims in this community.  There is a different mentality of dominance.  All I'm saying is that it is a complicated issue and the massive rally against police in the media and spurred by BLM and suburban liberal whites is not considering how difficult these areas are to establish control in.  You're right, speaking to police is not an unbiased view, I agree, but these guys are shot at or attacked most days and many people in these communities absolutely hate them, regardless of the race of the officer.  Sometimes times Hispanic officers are even attacked because they look white.  We need to get rid of cops that commit brutalities but to ignore the dysfunction and criminals in these communities is ridiculous.

Why would I know that to be true?  

And , no, it's not ridiculous to ignore crime levels in high crime areas when talking about police relations. I never said anything about there being a fine line between aggressive policing and police brutality, so I'm not sure who you were agreeing with.

A large part of poor police relations, and quite frankly, deceptively bloated crime statistics, stems from ridiculous drug enforcement policies, which are abusive, predatory, essentially racist and cause far more harm than good. I don't see a fine line here.

A few different  posters have stated that liberal policies have destroyed the black family over the past 3 or 4 decade, when any clear-eyed analysis makes it pretty obvious that the blame really should be laid at the feet of law enforcement and absurd drug enforcement policies. 

[Al Doggity]

Jim Crow actually allowed blacks to flourish and prosper.  Don't believe me, look up Black Wall Street.  The reason why it crumbled is when segregation ended and the blacks started shopping and going to white businesses.  Until then, blacks were building up financial wealth and a power base.

Jim Crow laws were not entirely what you think they were or what is "taught".

This doesn't stand to reason. Black Wall Street was not the entire black economy. This is like saying "Monopolies were actually better for American citizens because John Rockefeller's and Andrew Carnegie's adjusted wealth was greater than any current American businessman." The black economy is, without question, bigger and more diverse now. The fact that the power of the black economy is not centralized within a few city blocks does not mean that was a better system for blacks.  

[shootfighter1]

Why would I know that to be true?  

And , no, it's not ridiculous to ignore crime levels in high crime areas when talking about police relations. I never said anything about there being a fine line between aggressive policing and police brutality, so I'm not sure who you were agreeing with.

A large part of poor police relations, and quite frankly, deceptively bloated crime statistics, stems from ridiculous drug enforcement policies, which are abusive, predatory, essentially racist and cause far more harm than good. I don't see a fine line here.

A few different  posters have stated that liberal policies have destroyed the black family over the past 3 or 4 decade, when any clear-eyed analysis makes it pretty obvious that the blame really should be laid at the feet of law enforcement and absurd drug enforcement policies.  

I assumed by your other response you knew something about inner city neighborhoods, apology if I was wrong.  I don't know you or your background.

Agree about the war on drugs, our people should never go to prison over non-violent drug offenses and yes, agree again, it affects more young black males. However, more blame lies with repeated criminal behavior, dysfunctional families, maladaptive behaviors, poverty and lack of respect. These issues need front and center focus.  We must also condemn police brutality but one problem in focusing so much on isolated cases of police brutality, is that many of the people in that community put blinders on to all the other issues and focus all their efforts and energies coming together to yell, complain and protest rather than help fix their community.  Even if all aggressive police are off the streets, it doesn't change the root problems in the community.  Regardless, it still requires attention because no one should be harassed that is not a criminal.
How about this then, why don't we take the police out of these communities and see what happens, very likely things will be worse because too many people will prey on others that need protection.  Even though I fully fault the individual police that commit brutality and they need to be fired immediately, the criminal behavior, lack of respect for self and others, maladaptive habits, and dysfunctional families are not the police's fault whatsoever.  Sounds like you are more on the blame the police and society bandwagon.  People need to stop blaming everyone else and look at themselves to see how to fix things. Law enforcement is not ruining black communities, to insinuate that is just idiotic, in some of these areas dysfunctional behavior, broken families, maladaptive habits and criminality is the primary driver of that.  

Oh, and I wrote the wrong word.  I meant assertive policing not aggressive policing.  The police consider assertive policing to be trying to head off crimes before they happen.  It does involve some profiling but mainly the ability to question a suspicious person.  That did work in NYC but there is a profiling element, which will always cause some error.  In my city, this practice was known to have been pretty effective but with recent national events, police were told to back off.

[jude2]

Sheriff Clarke is a great cop.

[Conker]

The bold print speaks more directly toward your concerns. 

As do the words of Theodore Roosevelt - "No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it."

And in the event you missed them the first time you read them, these are from Malcom X- “To have once been a criminal is no disgrace. To remain a criminal is the disgrace.” 

Actually, my entire post speaks to your concerns but I can understand pick and choose.  We all do it.

i still don't see what relevance any of that has to do with what i posted.

they're great quotes but what do they do have to with BLM or what was being discussed?

are you saying that a lot of blacks are unreformed criminals therefore the whole community has to accept a different level of policing than others in society?

or that because roosevelt stated that all men should be equal in the eyes of the law, that today's legal system must be following his ideal?

i don't get what your argument is

[Thin Lizzy]

Lots of cluelessness in this thread. Rather than being aggressive, a typical cop who works in an inner city doesn't give a fuck and is looking to transfer out to a better neighborhood as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

If you were a cop in one of these "hoods," would you rush to respond to a "Domestic Dispute"?

With regard to drug laws, I happen to agree. A drug deal is a voluntary transaction. However, the flawed assumption is that drug dealers would be law abiding citizens if dealing weren't a viable option. On the contrary, they'd be engaged in a different type of criminal activity.

[drkaje]

Why would I know that to be true?  

And , no, it's not ridiculous to ignore crime levels in high crime areas when talking about police relations. I never said anything about there being a fine line between aggressive policing and police brutality, so I'm not sure who you were agreeing with.

A large part of poor police relations, and quite frankly, deceptively bloated crime statistics, stems from ridiculous drug enforcement policies, which are abusive, predatory, essentially racist and cause far more harm than good. I don't see a fine line here.

A few different  posters have stated that liberal policies have destroyed the black family over the past 3 or 4 decade, when any clear-eyed analysis makes it pretty obvious that the blame really should be laid at the feet of law enforcement and absurd drug enforcement policies. 

In terms of aggressive policing (i.e., stop and frisk, profiling), it works in high crime areas. I know people hate its invasiveness but there's a benefit.

I think We were better off before welfare began in the 50s.

[Conker]

In terms of aggressive policing (i.e., stop and frisk, profiling), it works in high crime areas. I know people hate its invasiveness but there's a benefit.

I think We were better off before welfare began in the 50s.

Yes life is so much better in the developed world if a proportion of society is left in complete destitution.

[drkaje]

Yes life is so much better in the developed world if a proportion of society is left in complete destitution.

Welfare created more poverty.

[Conker]

Welfare created more poverty.

yeh sure, i'm sure there were proportionally far less poor people pre 50s. lol

[drkaje]

yeh sure, i'm sure there were proportionally far less poor people pre 50s. lol

Welfare is enlightened self-interest and has created generations of dependents. It's fine for maintaining the status quo but the extent to which it helps people improve their lives is questionable. People growing up on welfare and becoming successful is the exception, not the rule.

[shootfighter1]

In terms of aggressive policing (i.e., stop and frisk, profiling), it works in high crime areas. I know people hate its invasiveness but there's a benefit.

I think We were better off before welfare began in the 50s.

That's what I meant, not physically aggressive.  Proactive/assertive policing like stop and frisk policy.  I don't like people being harassed based on how they look but stop and frisk and questioning people have definitely lead to less crime in high crime areas.

[drkaje]

That's what I meant, not physically aggressive.  Proactive/assertive policing like stop and frisk policy.  I don't like people being harassed based on how they look but stop and frisk and questioning people have definitely lead to less crime in high crime areas.

So much of this bullshit is politicized that we'll never know where the line is. At this point, I barely know if a line even exists. I'm automatically suspicious of any agenda that can't be advanced without victims.

[Al Doggity]

With regard to drug laws, I happen to agree. A drug deal is a voluntary transaction. However, the flawed assumption is that drug dealers would be law abiding citizens if dealing weren't a viable option. On the contrary, they'd be engaged in a different type of criminal activity.

No, the flawed assumption is that all, or even most, of the people affected by drug laws are drug dealers. I don't have time to look up the exact figures right now, but drug related convictions account for nearly half of all current US convictions and the majority of those are exclusively possession charges. Meaning that there was no other charge accompanying like intent to distribute or a violent crime.

In terms of aggressive policing (i.e., stop and frisk, profiling), it works in high crime areas. I know people hate its invasiveness but there's a benefit.

There is no  clear evidence that it works in high crime areas. Even the circumstantial evidence is sketchy. Cities that don't exercise such aggressive measures have had comparable drops in crime. In NYC, after our current mayor took office and stop and frisk was drastically dialed back, there was no explosion in crime. Stop and frisk was never good at its stated purpose of getting weapons off of the street, but you know what it was good at? Creating an artificial reason to search minority males under circumstances that would otherwise be illegal and eventually arrest them for weed possession. Weed possession- with no other charge attached- is responsible for the largest number of arrests  in NYC, by a WIDE margin. This not only generates revenue for the city via fines, but it increases federal financial allocations. The majority of weed arrests are of black men- less than 8% this year were white. According to almost every study, drug use between whites and blacks by percentage is comparable.

I think We were better off before welfare began in the 50s.

Once again, let's defer to that old internet forum favorite "correlation does not equal causation". The rise of the welfare state coincides with the rise of drug paranoia in the US. Any reasonable, clear-eyed analysis will show that drug policies have a lot more to do with destroying black families- and black male lives, in particular- than welfare.

[mr.turbo]

one needs to define welfare first of all. The so called welfare state emerged during the golden age of capitalism.  This is why one needs to disclose where their information comes from so that we may examine these sources for accuracy. One correlation I've noticed is dubious claims are often associated with mysterious sources! I demand to know where this information comes from.

[Al Doggity]

I think We were better off before welfare began in the 50s.

Here is a story from that liberal cumrag, The New York Times, that details some of the issues that come along with absurd marijuana convictions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/opinion/high-time-the-injustice-of-marijuana-arrests.html

It's not just an issue of spending a few hours in jail. This is an insidious issue that destroys lives, futures and families. It's something people feel comfortable ignoring because... you know... criminals deserve everything they get. And if the government says you're a criminal, you're a criminal. And welfare is our biggest problem.