Is it worth it following a strength program while on AAS to build mass?

[equipoise]

I am bumping up my test a bit to hopefully gain a bit of mass before summer, and I was wondering if it was worth following a strength program. FWIW I've always responded more to higher volume rather than strength training. Strength training gives me far less of a pump than traditional bodybuilding training, and this is always something that has bothered me since I love the pump.

But then I've read and heard about various recommendations to increase strength to increase mass, so I'm thinking there is something to it. Thoughts?

[herraisland]

My answer is no. I wasted many years on that, wanted to gain muscles. But dont get me wrong, everyone respond different. For me high rep is the way to build muscles

[Jizmo]

I am bumping up my test a bit to hopefully gain a bit of mass before summer, and I was wondering if it was worth following a strength program. FWIW I've always responded more to higher volume rather than strength training. Strength training gives me far less of a pump than traditional bodybuilding training, and this is always something that has bothered me since I love the pump.

But then I've read and heard about various recommendations to increase strength to increase mass, so I'm thinking there is something to it. Thoughts?

works for natties, but works less and less the more shit you take imo.
the more AAS, slin, GH come into play the more beneficial it gets to train BB style imo.

[equipoise]

works for natties, but works less and less the more shit you take imo.
the more AAS, slin, GH come into play the more beneficial it gets to train BB style imo.

Would it then make sense to use less gear but then follow a strength program? I'm only using low dose test atm

[lilhawk1]

Of course it's beneficial.  Increasing strength will increase the size of muscles, and build actual muscle tissue, not just water.  You see so many guys doing pumper sets while on, training with light weights, building no real muscle.  These are the guys that struggle to reach 200 lbs while taking 3 grams of shit a week with Slin,GH, etc.  Christ you can do that on 250-500mg of test.  All they do is gain water, then when they drop the dose, they go right back down 20 pounds.  Or, diet for a show, and nothing is left.  Get in the gym, deadlift, squat, lift heavy weight, now I'm not talking about sloppy form either.  You ever want to build thick, dense muscle, you're gonna have to lift heavy and increase your strength.  You wanna gain 20 pounds of water, and struggle to reach 200-220 while taking 3 grams of shit, then lift for a pump, and look like a string bean at 175 pounds when you diet.  Trust me, you'll get a pump lifting heavy and for strength.  If you do it right, it won't destroy your body as the fans of not lifting for strength will tell you.  It's just a bullshit excuse to be lazy in the gym.  You just might find out that 3 grams of shit per week isn't needed to get huge.  Rotating rep ranges is beneficial obviously, but there's a reason why so many guys take so much shit, and yet look like garbage, and make no progress from year to year. 

[Jizmo]

Would it then make sense to use less gear but then follow a strength program? I'm only using low dose test atm

not sure if srs lol
dropping down the dose will certainly not make you bigger

also agree @ lilhawk, but we are talking about powerlifting style workouts here
obviously you have to train heavy and until failure, but reaching failure with higher reps (10-12 or whatever) is a different animal than powerlifting style training in the 1-5 rep range. its simply more effective towards hypertrophy and ensures you dont tear all your shit up and look like branch warren when youre 40
all just my personal opinion though

[Zillotch]

'Heavy' lifting is for future cripples who enjoy the aesthetic value of torn pecs and biceps.

[equipoise]

Of course it's beneficial.  Increasing strength will increase the size of muscles, and build actual muscle tissue, not just water.  You see so many guys doing pumper sets while on, training with light weights, building no real muscle.  These are the guys that struggle to reach 200 lbs while taking 3 grams of shit a week with Slin,GH, etc.  Christ you can do that on 250-500mg of test.  All they do is gain water, then when they drop the dose, they go right back down 20 pounds.  Or, diet for a show, and nothing is left.  Get in the gym, deadlift, squat, lift heavy weight, now I'm not talking about sloppy form either.  You ever want to build thick, dense muscle, you're gonna have to lift heavy and increase your strength.  You wanna gain 20 pounds of water, and struggle to reach 200-220 while taking 3 grams of shit, then lift for a pump, and look like a string bean at 175 pounds when you diet.  Trust me, you'll get a pump lifting heavy and for strength.  If you do it right, it won't destroy your body as the fans of not lifting for strength will tell you.  It's just a bullshit excuse to be lazy in the gym.  You just might find out that 3 grams of shit per week isn't needed to get huge.  Rotating rep ranges is beneficial obviously, but there's a reason why so many guys take so much shit, and yet look like garbage, and make no progress from year to year.  

I'm not sure about that tbh. The strong powerlifters (assuming natural) I know are big but they have quite a bit of body fat on them. If they diet down they wouldn't be that much bigger than someone who lifts lighter weight for moderate reps. Actually the biggest and leanest guys I know are gymnasts (sans leg development)

[pestosterone]

Gymnast are the biggest and leanest guys you know? U not spend time in real gym or what?

[equipoise]

Gymnast are the biggest and leanest guys you know? U not spend time in real gym or what?

Ok I think I wrong in that lol. Biggest for their skeletal frame and height (which tends to be quite small, I think around 5'5 or below and small bone structure) and assuming no AAS use. They all look extremely lean and hard, usually good delts and have really impressive mass to strength ratio, most gym rats would have a bit more bloof and fat and usually not as strong. Can't quite put my finger on it, I always find gymnasts extremely impressive looking even if they're not super big. Of course there are bigger guys I've seen before

[pestosterone]

It's just because they are LEAN. If u take your legs away and you can double your reps for pull ups there is nothing special about that, but I see what u are saying. But under stand if u lost 25-30 lbs it would b all leg and the upper body is still strong u could do an iron cross and shit after a month of practice. Serious. But I have a guy come into my gym and is about 5ft7 maybe 165b lbs straight natty 13-15%%body fat squatting 455lbs for a double and it's below parallel, good squats his DL is about the same. That is more impressive to me than anything he's fucking tiny lol and is insanely strong. Just train to failure and use form let the muscle fail and u will grow rep range some times 10 is the best for me any heavier and the joints take a toll

[local hero]

'Heavy' lifting is for future cripples who enjoy the aesthetic value of torn pecs and biceps.

There's not a single heavyweight competitor who couldn't bench 4 plates, squat 5 or 6 etc and none of them train like powerlifters.

There's a direct link between strength,size and genes for this sport...

If your arms aren't over 20" in 3/5 years of training and juicing they never will be, if your not repping 4 plates on the bench in a few years of training you never will, and you now know you don't have elite bodybuilding genes....

[equipoise]

There's not a single heavyweight competitor who couldn't bench 4 plates, squat 5 or 6 etc and none of them train like powerlifters.

There's a direct link between strength,size and genes for this sport...

If your arms aren't over 20" in 3/5 years of training and juicing they never will be, if your not repping 4 plates on the bench in a few years of training you never will, and you now know you don't have elite bodybuilding genes....

What is the rep range you recommend?

[Thong Maniac]

im experimenting with the whole strengf thing this spring/summer as im natty now. ive always done the HV pump stuff and after looking in the mirror 5 years later, i was finally like "wtf!?" ive made like zero progress really. i have no squat, my deads are weak as fuck due to bad back and long limbs, and i stopped doing bench years ago for HV db pressing.

now my volume is far less. im doing reverse pyramid training.
for example my chest day is this...


bench press
warm ups
heavy set x 6
10 percent less X 7
10 percent less x 8

shoulder press
same rep set scheme as above

work out over and done

and believe it or not, im sore as shit pressing heavy weights and taking lots of rest. im in cal deficit as well which makes it hard too. im tracking my lifts and trying to increase rep or weights each time

[Luolamies]

Of course it's beneficial.  Increasing strength will increase the size of muscles, and build actual muscle tissue, not just water.  You see so many guys doing pumper sets while on, training with light weights, building no real muscle.  These are the guys that struggle to reach 200 lbs while taking 3 grams of shit a week with Slin,GH, etc.  Christ you can do that on 250-500mg of test.  All they do is gain water, then when they drop the dose, they go right back down 20 pounds.  Or, diet for a show, and nothing is left.  Get in the gym, deadlift, squat, lift heavy weight, now I'm not talking about sloppy form either.  You ever want to build thick, dense muscle, you're gonna have to lift heavy and increase your strength.  You wanna gain 20 pounds of water, and struggle to reach 200-220 while taking 3 grams of shit, then lift for a pump, and look like a string bean at 175 pounds when you diet.  Trust me, you'll get a pump lifting heavy and for strength.  If you do it right, it won't destroy your body as the fans of not lifting for strength will tell you.  It's just a bullshit excuse to be lazy in the gym.  You just might find out that 3 grams of shit per week isn't needed to get huge.  Rotating rep ranges is beneficial obviously, but there's a reason why so many guys take so much shit, and yet look like garbage, and make no progress from year to year. 

Perfect answer.

Local hero also has some good points but i do personally know a lot heavy weight bb's and most of 'em aren't "that" strong. Then again 4 plates a side in the bench isn't a big deal...

Anyways best gains for myself and for most i've trained with came from first doing a heavy movement for big pyramid, example chest/pressing day bench 8,6,5,4,3,2, or 8,8,5,5,5,3,3,3,1 something along those lines then 3-5 other movements where you use semi-heavy medium weights for 8-12 reps for 3 sets... add red meat, eggs, gainer, test and deca, BOOM.

After about 12 weeks or so i switch this to more of a pump with 10-20 reps and not much sets lower than heavy-ish 6. Mostly just good feel and pumps. CNS and all that recovers and you don't burnout.

[heenok]

There is a direct correlation between muscle size and strengh.
All pros are strong AS FUCK. But they mostly CHOSE to not train as heavy as they can to not destroy their joints. Anyone at that level have some injuries and they dont want to make it worse or end up crippled like Ronnie Coleman. Hence they use pre exhaust techniques, volume, pump etc...
Look at Aaron Clark training the guy does his compounds lifts LAST and still manage to push enormous weights.

[emayarsh]

Keep a log, get stronger, build muscle.