This is why I say deadlifts are basically useless

[Grape Ape]

Hex bar would be a great alternative. I've just never trained at a gym that had one.

I was able to purchase a 56 lb version for only 75 bucks of craigslist.

I feel they put the spine in a better position and put less strain on my biceps.  I like the conventional DL, but am not completing, so I use this exclusively at the moment.

[Al Doggity]

Which means she's strong.

You're using a sample size of exactly one (yourself) and applying subjective criteria.

They're not useless.  They strengthen the entire posterior chain, grip etc....which translates into a plethora of other things.

I didn't claim to be a research facility, but personal strength gains/losses aren't subjective criteria. When I used myself as an example, it was anecdotal but specific. And my specificity stands in stark contrast to what most people who are proponents of the deadlift claim its benefits are, which was the point of this thread. Your post is a perfect example of that.



As I posted earlier, you can have a guy who deadlifts regularly and puts up decent numbers and it wouldn't be unusual for that work not to be reflected in his physique whatsoever. The post you quoted from me was in response to another poster who asked me to show him some guys who were decently strong in the deadlift who didn't look like they lifted. You can find a good number of youtube videos of old women and old men doing 2+ plate dls. You can find children dl'ing and even slim asian women in high heels pulling 3+ plates. It's much rarer to find vids of old women benching or rowing or chinning or squatting. That's because deading is largely about technique in a way that other strength movements aren't. The senior from my opening post likely doesn't have a squat or row that is nearly as impressive as her deadlift and these are exercises that should be affected by strengthening the muscles she uses in a deadlift.


If you take issue with the title I chose for this thread, I admitted in the first post that I was exaggerating. Deadlifts aren't completely useless. They are beneficial in the way that virtually any physical activity is beneficial in comparison to remaining sedentary. Yet, for an exercise that many people claim is the granddaddy of all exercises for serious lifters, its tangible benefits are suspiciously nebulous. Improved numbers on virtually any back exercise that is not a deadlift will result in improved numbers on virtually every other back exercise. Improved numbers on virtually every leg exercise besides dl will result in improvements on all other leg exercises. You can become proficient at deadlifting without seeing any significant improvement to your physique or a gain in strength in other exercises.

[Al Doggity]

From a bbing stand point, meaning you just want to look good and have a pretty body, then DL aren't necessary. But from a functional point of view, nothing beats the DL. If you are a wrestler, Jiu-Jitsu guy, work in a warehouse, or just helping your friend move, DL rule.

You rarely do a bench press type movement in real life, picking up and putting down things is one of the most common movement we do in everyday life.

Disagree with the majority of this post. Picking up and putting down is a common movement, but not in a manner that's similar to deadlifts and certainly not at a weight where regular, fairly taxing deadlifting would make a difference in the average person's quality of life. The examples you use in your post are either specialized or infrequent. I'm trying to think of some circumstances  in which the average person I know could use the alleged benefits of regular deadlifting during the course of a typical day and the only examples I can think of are my wife and the other mothers of toddlers we know. I say mothers specifically, as the fathers rarely complain about the weight of the kids after holding them for long stretches.  As for rarely using bench pressing movements, gotta disagree there, too. There's a large glass security door in my office building that you have to go through to get to the bay of elevators that stops at our floor. It's a very heavy door and you constantly see people struggling with it. Whenever I am away from the gym (and bench pressing) for an extended period, I really notice the weight of that door. There's a restaurant called "bread and butter" around the corner where I eat lunch pretty frequently, It has the same door issue. So for me, on a daily basis, the bench press provides a more practical benefit than the deadlift. Obviously, everyone's lifestyle is different, but that's actually the point I'm trying to drive home. (Not that presses are better)

[chaos]

Disagree with the majority of this post. Picking up and putting down is a common movement, but not in a manner that's similar to deadlifts and certainly not at a weight where regular, fairly taxing deadlifting would make a difference in the average person's quality of life. The examples you use in your post are either specialized or infrequent. I'm trying to think of some circumstances  in which the average person I know could use the alleged benefits of regular deadlifting during the course of a typical day and the only examples I can think of are my wife and the other mothers of toddlers we know. I say mothers specifically, as the fathers rarely complain about the weight of the kids after holding them for long stretches.  As for rarely using bench pressing movements, gotta disagree there, too. There's a large glass security door in my office building that you have to go through to get to the bay of elevators that stops at our floor. It's a very heavy door and you constantly see people struggling with it. Whenever I am away from the gym (and bench pressing) for an extended period, I really notice the weight of that door. There's a restaurant called "bread and butter" around the corner where I eat lunch pretty frequently, It has the same door issue. So for me, on a daily basis, the bench press provides a more practical benefit than the deadlift. Obviously, everyone's lifestyle is different, but that's actually the point I'm trying to drive home. (Not that presses are better)

If it's too hard for you, just quit.

[BBSSchlemiel]

I switched Dead for RDL's because unlike most getbiggers, I'm a vain, shallow, "cosmetically motivated" fellow - Romanians may not be hitting quite as many muscles as Conventional (or sumo) but I feel I get more bang for my CNS buck.

I shitcanned conventional deadlifts two years ago and stick with Romanian deadlifts considering the deadlift applies an enormous amount of tension throughout the whole body while targeting none! The range of motion is small. And because I am as shallow as you, I stick with things that work the muscle.

Trap-bar deadlifts are great too.

I forgot to mention that I don't like the shitty feeling I had from regular deadlifts for three days after doing them .

[Henda]

Disagree with the majority of this post. Picking up and putting down is a common movement, but not in a manner that's similar to deadlifts and certainly not at a weight where regular, fairly taxing deadlifting would make a difference in the average person's quality of life. The examples you use in your post are either specialized or infrequent. I'm trying to think of some circumstances  in which the average person I know could use the alleged benefits of regular deadlifting during the course of a typical day and the only examples I can think of are my wife and the other mothers of toddlers we know. I say mothers specifically, as the fathers rarely complain about the weight of the kids after holding them for long stretches.  As for rarely using bench pressing movements, gotta disagree there, too. There's a large glass security door in my office building that you have to go through to get to the bay of elevators that stops at our floor. It's a very heavy door and you constantly see people struggling with it. Whenever I am away from the gym (and bench pressing) for an extended period, I really notice the weight of that door. There's a restaurant called "bread and butter" around the corner where I eat lunch pretty frequently, It has the same door issue. So for me, on a daily basis, the bench press provides a more practical benefit than the deadlift. Obviously, everyone's lifestyle is different, but that's actually the point I'm trying to drive home. (Not that presses are better)

Haha this has to be a troll

[Al Doggity]

Haha this has to be a troll

  Not sure which part of that post seems troll-worthy. Nothing too crazy in there. Maybe you misunderstood it? 

[Henda]

Not sure which part of that post seems troll-worthy. Nothing too crazy in there. Maybe you misunderstood it? 

The bench pressing the heavy door cannot be serious

[polychronopolous]

Disagree with the majority of this post. Picking up and putting down is a common movement, but not in a manner that's similar to deadlifts and certainly not at a weight where regular, fairly taxing deadlifting would make a difference in the average person's quality of life. The examples you use in your post are either specialized or infrequent. I'm trying to think of some circumstances  in which the average person I know could use the alleged benefits of regular deadlifting during the course of a typical day and the only examples I can think of are my wife and the other mothers of toddlers we know. I say mothers specifically, as the fathers rarely complain about the weight of the kids after holding them for long stretches.  As for rarely using bench pressing movements, gotta disagree there, too. There's a large glass security door in my office building that you have to go through to get to the bay of elevators that stops at our floor. It's a very heavy door and you constantly see people struggling with it. Whenever I am away from the gym (and bench pressing) for an extended period, I really notice the weight of that door. There's a restaurant called "bread and butter" around the corner where I eat lunch pretty frequently, It has the same door issue. So for me, on a daily basis, the bench press provides a more practical benefit than the deadlift. Obviously, everyone's lifestyle is different, but that's actually the point I'm trying to drive home. (Not that presses are better)

Invest in one of those football sleds and you will really be able to impress people with your ability to open a door.

[Al Doggity]

The bench pressing the heavy door cannot be serious

  Not really sure what the issue is, but... OK

[Henda]

Not really sure what the issue is, but... OK

Haha ok I believe your serious

[mazrim]

I kind of get what you are saying as far as physique goes. I rarely (if ever) do them now. It's not lazy to me to skip out on an exercise that can drain you an incredible amount and therefore make you underperform on other exercises. Id rather go for less draining exercises and get the same results. If I do do them it is pretty light (10-12 reps-never to failure).
I can say that they are probably the best exercise for traps, IMO. Much better then shrugs. I don't want giant traps, though, so actually stay away from trap exercises.

[chaos]

I shitcanned conventional deadlifts two years ago and stick with Romanian deadlifts considering the deadlift applies an enormous amount of tension throughout the whole body while targeting none! The range of motion is small. And because I am as shallow as you, I stick with things that work the muscle.

Trap-bar deadlifts are great too.

I forgot to mention that I don't like the shitty feeling I had from regular deadlifts for three days after doing them .

What happens to all that tension if no muscle is targeted

[CT_Muscle]

What happens to all that tension if no muscle is targeted

MODS PLEASE MOVE THIS SHIT THREAD TO THE TRAINING SECTION WHERE IT BELONGS

[Al Doggity]

I kind of get what you are saying as far as physique goes. I rarely (if ever) do them now. It's not lazy to me to skip out on an exercise that can drain you an incredible amount and therefore make you underperform on other exercises. Id rather go for less draining exercises and get the same results. If I do do them it is pretty light (10-12 reps-never to failure).
I can say that they are probably the best exercise for traps, IMO. Much better then shrugs. I don't want giant traps, though, so actually stay away from trap exercises.

If you're working out, it's not lazy. You're not required to do any particular exercises during a workout. I will do an hours worth of deadlifts before I do an hours worth of cardio. You don't need to justify not doing any exercise, much less one with negligible benefits. When I first started working out as a teen, I avoided doing squats and deadlifts for years because of fear of injury, not because they were too strenuous. I completely understand  why people reflexively advocate deadlifts. It's repeated all the time how they are the best exercise, but when  you really get down to discussing what they benefit, the only things you hear are grip strength, posterior chain,etc. things that other exercises are as good or better at hitting. And I get the defensiveness. If you move that much weight during an exercise without the aid of a machine and it exhausts you that much, then logically it seems like it must be doing a lot.

[Al Doggity]

MODS PLEASE MOVE THIS SHIT THREAD TO THE TRAINING SECTION WHERE IT BELONGS

This is the gossip and opinion board. This is an opinion thread, not a training thread. This thread is fine where it is.

[Sokolsky]

It's safe to say that anyone with a big deadlift invests considerable amount of time in training.
Highly doubt this isn't reflected in their physique.

[CT_Muscle]

This is the gossip and opinion board. This is an opinion thread, not a training thread. This thread is fine where it is.

a SHIT opinion about TRAINING MOVE IT CHAOS!

[drkaje]

In terms of exercise: To what extent do people believe technique affects results?

[Sokolsky]

In terms of exercise: To what extent do people believe technique affects results?

I would argue it matters fuck all, too many people get hung up on 'technique'. If you're trying to maximize your pull for competition or whatever, sure.
But for the average gymrat it means fuck all to the point where moving weight in any way would yields results, regardless.

[Primemuscle]

I've not done dead-lifts for many years. When I did them though, I liked that they made me believe that I was stronger. Lifting heavy weights is a great ego booster. Whether dead-lifts alone actually build quality muscle is debatable. It seems to me when you do them in conjunction with other exercises, they are more beneficial. They are definitely a power lifter exercise.

I would add dead-lifts back into my routine if my grip weren't compromised by years of carpel tunnel problems in both hands. What I liked most about them was that they strengthened my lower back. These days I do good-mornings for lower back, sometimes with added weight and sometimes without and just for a maximum stretch with hands flat on the floor.

[Sokolsky]

I would add dead-lifts back into my routine if my grip weren't compromised by years of carpel tunnel problems in both hands. What I liked most about them was that they strengthened my lower back. These days I do good-mornings for lower back, sometimes with added weight and sometimes without and just for a maximum stretch with hands flat on the floor.

Hyperextensions with added weight (barbell behind the neck or deadlift off the floor) help a great deal in isolation. Also focusses much more on the lowerback rather than including the glutes if done correctly. Worth a try, imo they give a better pump/feeling of soreness than any other (lower)back exercise.

[pellius]

Disagree with the majority of this post. Picking up and putting down is a common movement, but not in a manner that's similar to deadlifts and certainly not at a weight where regular, fairly taxing deadlifting would make a difference in the average person's quality of life. The examples you use in your post are either specialized or infrequent. I'm trying to think of some circumstances  in which the average person I know could use the alleged benefits of regular deadlifting during the course of a typical day and the only examples I can think of are my wife and the other mothers of toddlers we know. I say mothers specifically, as the fathers rarely complain about the weight of the kids after holding them for long stretches.  As for rarely using bench pressing movements, gotta disagree there, too. There's a large glass security door in my office building that you have to go through to get to the bay of elevators that stops at our floor. It's a very heavy door and you constantly see people struggling with it. Whenever I am away from the gym (and bench pressing) for an extended period, I really notice the weight of that door. There's a restaurant called "bread and butter" around the corner where I eat lunch pretty frequently, It has the same door issue. So for me, on a daily basis, the bench press provides a more practical benefit than the deadlift. Obviously, everyone's lifestyle is different, but that's actually the point I'm trying to drive home. (Not that presses are better)

You are being wildly bias here. Pushing open a door has very little to do with the pressing movement done in a bench. When you open a door you lean into it and use your legs. Take note the next time you are opening that door. If you are pushing it with your arms with hands starting at your chest and extending past the half way point you are opening the door wrong.

And you don't have to exactly duplicate a DL or RDL for it to aid in any movement where you pick up a weight. DL strengthens all the major muscles used when picking things up: back, legs, hams, grip.

And holding a baby is more of an isometric position not aided much by DL but constantly picking up and putting down a baby is.

But like I said, you don't need Deads to be a bber and to look good but, as far as functional ability irl, nothing beats it. But you don't like Deads. I get it. It's a hard movement that real drains you. You are more concerned about pretty muscles. That still puts you ahead of the game than the majority of the fatsos out there. And AAA will change your tire for you.

[pellius]

I kind of get what you are saying as far as physique goes. I rarely (if ever) do them now. It's not lazy to me to skip out on an exercise that can drain you an incredible amount and therefore make you underperform on other exercises. Id rather go for less draining exercises and get the same results. If I do do them it is pretty light (10-12 reps-never to failure).
I can say that they are probably the best exercise for traps, IMO. Much better then shrugs. I don't want giant traps, though, so actually stay away from trap exercises.

It is draining and does affect my intensity for the rest of the workout. That's why I have been doing them last for years. I don't go heavy but just want to be conditioned in that type of picking up and putting down heavy objects.

[Al Doggity]

It's safe to say that anyone with a big deadlift invests considerable amount of time in training.
Highly doubt this isn't reflected in their physique.

Disagree.  

Okay, I get that a powerlifting routine is different from a daily fitness/bodybuilding routine, but you don't typically see guys who look like this putting up impressive numbers on bp or squat.

This guy's physique isn't bad, but there is such a massive disparity between the impressiveness of his bench and deadlift that, IMO, it goes beyond  the  idea that some people are just stronger on certain lifts.
He can pull 600 lbs but never goes above 2 plates bench press.