This is why I say deadlifts are basically useless

[Al Doggity]

I deadlifted today.

You see?  And I bet you pulled a ton of weight. And you are probably hench as fuck, too.

[Al Doggity]

You can find a problem with any one exercise, one exercise will never take the place of all. There is also the question of what your goals are and what to accomplish, highly variable. I think you'll agree.

From what I've said in this thread, one wouldn't assume that I expect any one exercise to take the place of all or to be good in all routines. Seriously, go back and read this thread. It is the proponents of the deadlift who are saying that it is the best exercise, it is the only one you need to do, it is the one exercise that everyone should do, etc. My point has been that people say this all the time and I think this is a pretty transparent myth that people should reconsider automatically buying into.

[Al Doggity]

The whole question of exercise carryover - it may it may not. All I did was leg press and got good at, went back to squats I was weaker. Another time all I did for a couple of months was dips and then went back to the bench it didn't fare well either. Don't underestimate neurological adaptation. You are what you train for.

Maybe I didn't make this idea clear. To a certain extent I am aiming for brevity and pithiness because it's clear people are choosing to misinterpret what I'm writing at their own discretion. When I say "if you are strong in one exercise, you are strong in all exercises for that bodypart", I don't mean that you only need one exercise. There is a certain element of "practicing" that causes you to go up on a lift. But having an above average bent over row highly suggests you have an above average  cable row, and on and on. I'm not saying that doing any exercise for chest is going make you a beast on BPs. But if you were doing an exercise with similar weight and intensity, like say seated hammer press with 3 or 4 plates, when you went back to benches, you would have a pretty decent bench.

It' funny you should mention your experience not benching for a while. About a year ago, I posted in a thread about what happened when I had to back off of intense pushing workouts for a while because of elbow pain. I am the third comment down:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=572735.0

If you don't feel like clicking, I had to replace weight training with intense upper body cardio for about a month. My strength definitely dropped, but I was surprised that I did not have starting over numbers. I have a bench of about 285 and and could still do about 15 solid weight dips. At my peak, I was doing bodyweight dips of around 30 and benching 365 for reps, so that is a drop.

[Al Doggity]

The OP never said the deadlift was useless. And I never said that either.

The OP was challenging the idea that the deadlift is superior to other exercises, and that similar results can be achieved by doing other back exercises.

Thanks for reading this with an open mind, but actually I've said that I think you can achieve better results with quantifiable progress from other exercises. I don't think the deadlift is completely useless, but I think it is wildly overrated. I think it's less effective than other exercises for building muscle and for building strength.

[chaos]

Thanks for reading this with an open mind

He doesn't have an open mind, he is prejudiced against deadlifts.

[mr.turbo]

This study finds deadlifts produce larger elevations in hormone response than other exercises.

http://www.tarleton.edu/Faculty/jblevins/advanced%20exercise%20phys/ContentServer.pdf

 

[drkaje]

He doesn't have an open mind, he is prejudiced against deadlifts.

He's an anti-Deadlite?!

[Grape Ape]

He's an anti-Deadlite?!

Lol, Kramer.

[drkaje]

Lol, Kramer.

LOL!

[SF1900]

Thanks for reading this with an open mind, but actually I've said that I think you can achieve better results with quantifiable progress from other exercises. I don't think the deadlift is completely useless, but I think it is wildly overrated. I think it's less effective than other exercises for building muscle and for building strength.

Deadlifts have their place in a workout routine, especially if one is a competitive lifter or athlete. And I am sure they even have benefits for the average gym rat.

However, I do not agree with the idea that not doing deadlifts will affect one's quality of life or affect daily living activities. You can definitely maintain a strong back by doing other exercises. In this sense, I think they are overrated. Again, to an olympic lifter, obviously they are not overrated. But you can definitely achieve good results without doing deadlifts.

As for the idea that someone can achieve better results with other exercises (and not the deadlift), well, I will not speak on that. I really do not know any of the science behind exercise physiology.

[SF1900]

Lol, Kramer.

A great Seinfeld episode. 

[SF1900]

This study finds deadlifts produce larger elevations in hormone response than other exercises.

http://www.tarleton.edu/Faculty/jblevins/advanced%20exercise%20phys/ContentServer.pdf

 

That would make sense. I guess your body would need to produce more hormones in response to a more stressful lift (Deadlift as opposed to a bicep curl).

[Donny]

I think Deadlifts are very useful in say an Abbreviated routine such as Deadlifts, chins, Dips like from Stuart Mc Robert "Brawn". Definitely works but Deadlifts are really full body. If you want to focus on a Bodypart then Deadlifts are not needed. Rather do Barbell Rows for overall Back. Just my opinion.

[chaos]

I think Deadlifts are very useful in say an Abbreviated routine such as Deadlifts, chins, Dips like from Stuart Mc Robert "Brawn". Definitely works but Deadlifts are really full body. If you want to focus on a Bodypart then Deadlifts are not needed. Rather do Barbell Rows for overall Back. Just my opinion.

Your opinion sucks

[Donny]

Your opinion sucks

Great answer for a Mod in the Training section. 

[Al Doggity]

Deadlifts have their place in a workout routine, especially if one is a competitive lifter or athlete. And I am sure they even have benefits for the average gym rat.

However, I do not agree with the idea that not doing deadlifts will affect one's quality of life or affect daily living activities. You can definitely maintain a strong back by doing other exercises. In this sense, I think they are overrated. Again, to an olympic lifter, obviously they are not overrated. But you can definitely achieve good results without doing deadlifts.

As for the idea that someone can achieve better results with other exercises (and not the deadlift), well, I will not speak on that. I really do not know any of the science behind exercise physiology.

Then it looks like  we are actually quite a ways away on this. My pov in this thread is that I don't take the supreme efficacy of deadlifts for granted, not that one can get by without them.

[Al Doggity]

This study finds deadlifts produce larger elevations in hormone response than other exercises.

http://www.tarleton.edu/Faculty/jblevins/advanced%20exercise%20phys/ContentServer.pdf

 

I didn't read the whole thing, I just did a word search and the study only mentions "deadlifts" specifically twice and that is in conjunction with other exercises that the study describes as "large muscle-mass exercises." One of those exercises is squats, which is an exercise that I've stated should be considered more essential and effective than deadlifts. I can't imagine that this study would not consider heavy bent-over rows  a "large muscle-mass exercise."

[Donny]

I didn't read the whole thing, I just did a word search and the study only mentions "deadlifts" specifically twice and that is in conjunction with other exercises that the study describes as "large muscle-mass exercises." One of those exercises is squats, which is an exercise that I've stated should be considered more essential and effective than deadlifts. I can't imagine that this study would not consider heavy bent-over rows  a "large muscle-mass exercise."

Fully correct Squats are more productive "in my opinion" and barbell rows are king  as a Basic exercise for the whole back.

[mr.turbo]

I didn't read the whole thing, I just did a word search and the study only mentions "deadlifts" specifically twice and that is in conjunction with other exercises that the study describes as "large muscle-mass exercises." One of those exercises is squats, which is an exercise that I've stated should be considered more essential and effective than deadlifts. I can't imagine that this study would not consider heavy bent-over rows  a "large muscle-mass exercise."

you can state whatever you like however we are still waiting for support for your animus toward the deadlift.  I don't believe the reason everyone does them is because they are simply brainwashed. It's not like this is some sort of gimmick that's just emerged.

Perhaps you like to overtrain and therefore you can't fit the deadlift in? I remember you posted your routine which had a lot of volume. It was an interesting routine too. If I'm short on time and had to choose I would deadlift over doing rows. It's just more efficient for training.

[chaos]

Great answer for a Mod in the Training section. 

Thank you.

[Donny]

Thank you.

Sarcasm is above wit

[NelsonMuntz]

I came back to training at the end of last september.
looking back I was pretty busted up posture wise, neck pain etc etc etc
funny about this thread today because deadlifts, stiff legs, RDL's, hypers, pull thrus and power cleans among other things have been part of my workouts since I got back(obviously not at the same time), with both lighter(for me) and heavier weights(for me)
my point...I was outside today waiting for someone and realized hey my posture is 100 times better, I stand taller and my neck does not bother me anymore.

Sometimes you don't know the value of things until you lose them, then appreciate them when you get them back.

then you can realize and appreciate what you did to get back there.

[Al Doggity]

you can state whatever you like however we are still waiting for support for your animus toward the deadlift.  I don't believe the reason everyone does them is because they are simply brainwashed. It's not like this is some sort of gimmick that's just emerged.

Perhaps you like to overtrain and therefore you can't fit the deadlift in? I remember you posted your routine which had a lot of volume. It was an interesting routine too. If I'm short on time and had to chose I would deadlift over doing rows. It's just more efficient for training.

I was responding to a study you posted  which you presented as "deadlift produces highest hormone response" which isn't really what that study said.

As for support for my "animus" towards the deadlift, I've posted pretty extensive personal experience and multiple video examples of why I think a good deadlift is overrated. There is a fundamental difference between the Ronnie Coleman video you posted and the videos I posted. Ronnie Coleman deadlifts heavy, but he also lifts heavy on other back exercises. All of the people I posted had average (or even below average) physiques yet still pulled impressive deadlift numbers. Some were even wearing high heels while doing it.  When I could find them, I posted other lifts by these people  and those lifts were far closer to average. Not to mention, Coleman is absolutely destroyed now. So, just in terms of general fitness, his years of heavy lifting didn't do much to help him out.

[Donny]

you can state whatever you like however we are still waiting for support for your animus toward the deadlift.  I don't believe the reason everyone does them is because they are simply brainwashed. It's not like this is some sort of gimmick that's just emerged.

Perhaps you like to overtrain and therefore you can't fit the deadlift in? I remember you posted your routine which had a lot of volume. It was an interesting routine too. If I'm short on time and had to choose I would deadlift over doing rows. It's just more efficient for training.

Short on time yes...Abbreviated training but not "Quality" training for Back or any other single muscle group.

[Primemuscle]

we use this type of bench in the Gym. Works great for us "Old Boys"...  

The equipment at the gym I go to looks like this. Using it has made me feel "light headed" on occasion. This is particularly true if I have not done them for awhile.