Gaining strength while maintaining weight

[phreak]

Yes, this question has been done to death. Still I'd like the honorable members to chime in on this.

Goal:
- Have my first serious blast,
- Get a lot stronger,
- Maintain bodyweight.

I am sure some of you would suggest blasting only when gaining weight, but as I am 11 kg over my weight class limit already that is not an option. In the 105 kg I can be competitive, in the Open I am being blown away by miles. Would be nice to lose some weight on this, but that is not essential. Afterwards I will go back to my regular 250 mg/w test.


Questions I have:
1. For strength I was considering adding orals. Never tried winstrol, so would probably start there. However, I already have joint pain quite often, so I was wondering how much of an offset I would need in terms of 'wetter' compounds. If I was running a gram of test per week, would 50-80 mg winstrol still dry out my joints? If so, then I'd consider doing turinabol instead, it worked well for me once.

2. Training frequency would go up, as I have to practice skill as well, not just strength. Would winstrol interfere there?


Thanks for the comments, even the bitchy ones.  

[phreak]

As additional info:

- Tried tren, disliked it. Lots of sides, no noticable gains.
- Liked anadrol, can deal with water retention, as long as it is only water, not fat.
- Never tried dianabol.
- Liked masteron enanthate. Might want to add that into the mix.
- Would be looking at an intermediate-level blast, so around 2-2.5 grams/week total.
- Have abused my liver a lot in my youth, but live quite healthily these days (almost no alcohol, cardio every day, etc.).
- Would need to maintain my current sex drive. Life sucks if I don't have sex a few times per day.

[phreak]

So all in all I was thinking along the lines of:

- 1000 mg test enanthate per week (up from 250 currently),
- 1000 mg masteron enanthate per week,
- 50-80 mg of an oral daily.

For about 8 weeks total.

[PizzaTrenSlin]

When i was using 40mg Oral Turinabol strength was super! Also aesthetic was nice! My muscles were so round and full...

-Testosterone also is ok for it, i would add some Masteron to keep bloat and E2 in check.
-Trenbolone is really good for it, at 350mg it works wonder, but if you abuse it... it will smash you, if you run Trenbolone use low Test 150-300mg max and 350mg Tren A.

Methyltrienolone (1mg ed) is another good compound for strength also Halotestin... but they are all very toxic for the liver...

[phreak]

When i was using 40mg Oral Turinabol strength was super! Also aesthetic was nice! My muscles were so round and full...

-Testosterone also is ok for it, i would add some Masteron to keep bloat and E2 in check.
-Trenbolone is really good for it, at 350mg it works wonder, but if you abuse it... it will smash you, if you run Trenbolone use low Test 150-300mg max and 350mg Tren A.

Methyltrienolone (1mg ed) is another good compound for strength also Halotestin... but they are all very toxic for the liver...

Methyltrienolone does indeed sound great, but it is hard to get here. In fact anything exotic is hard to get. 

What would you keep the balance between testosterone and masteron at? 50/50 or more skewed towards masteron? I could go 500 mg test, 1500 mg mast.

[PizzaTrenSlin]

I think that you have to start with Masteron P at 350-400 at least, then every 2 weeks raise it by 50mg and see how your body will change, wait 2 weeks because you have to wait for the new dose to stabilize.
Too much can only give you tons of DHT sides... Like acne for ex.

When you find your sweet spot you can change ester.
Masteron P * 0,8 /0.7 = Masteron E (ofc round the dose)

200 (MastP)*0.8/0.7=228 (MastP)

Once you have find your sweet spot for Mast try to add NPP/Deca for joints and added mass.

That way you will have a complete therapy. If you add NPP/Deca start at 300-350 and use Mast to control bloat. Diet will also help a lot on controlling Deca bloat... don't overeat carbs.

Imho i prefer to add new compounds than skyrocket just one.
Test has a limit, and the limit is how big you are, so don't abuse it.

Last thing, if you see that Test bloats you too much then, put it at TRT dose and raise NPP/DECA.

I have seen a lot of guys playing with doses of Test + Masteron + 4iu HGH and they achieved a really nice physique

[phreak]

I think that you have to start with Masteron P at 350-400 at least, then every 2 weeks raise it by 50mg and see how your body will change, wait 2 weeks because you have to wait for the new dose to stabilize.
Too much can only give you tons of DHT sides... Like acne for ex.

When you find your sweet spot you can change ester.
Masteron P * 0,8 /0.7 = Masteron E (ofc round the dose)

200 (MastP)*0.8/0.7=228 (MastP)

Once you have find your sweet spot for Mast try to add NPP/Deca for joints and added mass.

That way you will have a complete therapy. If you add NPP/Deca start at 300-350 and use Mast to control bloat. Diet will also help a lot on controlling Deca bloat... don't overeat carbs.

Imho i prefer to add new compounds than skyrocket just one.
Test has a limit, and the limit is how big you are, so don't abuse it.

Last thing, if you see that Test bloats you too much then, put it at TRT dose and raise NPP/DECA.

I have seen a lot of guys playing with doses of Test + Masteron + 4iu HGH and they achieved a really nice physique

Thanks for the detailed response. I have actually done masteron enanthate at 600 mg/w, so starting at 400 of masteron prop seems a bit cautious -- especially as I cannot blast for too long. Limited by my travel schedule, so I need to be done with EOD injections and orals by the end of August.

Of course this sounds like I am just trying to rush things. And I am.  Purely due to circumstance though.

So would you stay with test enanthate, or change that to prop too? I have been on test enan for nearly two years, so without further info I see no need to change to prop.

[PizzaTrenSlin]

Don't switch to Propionate, if don't have bloat, and you can manage it well...

On a forum there's a guy that was using, he has same stats as me and i used same mgs:

500mg test e
350 mast p (400 mast e)

750mg test e
450mg mast p (500 mast e)

Since you are in a hurry then follow these dosages. Mast E usually comes in 200mg/ml vials so i would dose it like that:

500mg test e
400 mast e

750mg test e
600 mast e

You can charge the oil in same syringe

[PizzaTrenSlin]

Thanks for the detailed response. I have actually done masteron enanthate at 600 mg/w, so starting at 400 of masteron prop seems a bit cautious -- especially as I cannot blast for too long. Limited by my travel schedule, so I need to be done with EOD injections and orals by the end of August.

Of course this sounds like I am just trying to rush things. And I am.  Purely due to circumstance though.

So would you stay with test enanthate, or change that to prop too? I have been on test enan for nearly two years, so without further info I see no need to change to prop.

You stayed 2 year at 500mg? Nice :O i would like to do the same and just blast with Tren or NPP...

[heenok]

For strengh without weight gain ive always heard Halotestin is unbeatable.
Winstrol in my experience is pretty good for strengh too but beware with the joints.

[dj181]

halo is supposedly the way to go

i've run dbol, drol, superdrol, var, winny, epistane, tren ace, test e, test prop, sust, eq, mast, and deca

and i'd say that i didn't gain much greatly added strength from any of them (although i don't really train for strength, so maybe that's why)

but if i had to narrow it down to the ones that gave me the best strength boost i'd have to say that is was superdrol and drol

[Diesel618]

Tbol is gonna be more mild than halotestin or methyl tren, but I think it would suit you perfectly. Very underrated drug in terms of strength IMO, especially if bodyweight is a concern. That concern would rule out superdrol or anadrol. Test, Mast, Tren, and Tbol would be my humble suggestion.

Say:
100 mg test prop/day
100 mg mast prop/day
100 mg tren ace/day
40-80 mg tbol/day

That brings you in at 2100 mg/week before the oral. I know you said you weren't quite fond of the tren, but if your goal is strength, I would at the very least give it another shot before writing it off completely.

[PizzaTrenSlin]

I think that he doesn't like Tren... so maybe try Test + Anavar + Tbol..

[phreak]

Thanks all for the feedback!

And yes, tren was a big disappointment when I tried it. However, I got some feedback from Jizmo (IIRC) that results might have been different had I used tren prop instead of enanthate.


One thing I keep thinking about is the libido. I'm borderline sex addicted, so not being able to get it up is a major concern for me. I'll take jaundice over a limp noodle. Opinions on tbol's effect on libido seem to be mixed, and tren has a reputation for negatively affecting libido. Would I then be better of choosing either tbol or tren, instead of running both?

[Diesel618]

Thanks all for the feedback!

And yes, tren was a big disappointment when I tried it. However, I got some feedback from Jizmo (IIRC) that results might have been different had I used tren prop instead of enanthate.


One thing I keep thinking about is the libido. I'm borderline sex addicted, so not being able to get it up is a major concern for me. I'll take jaundice over a limp noodle. Opinions on tbol's effect on libido seem to be mixed, and tren has a reputation for negatively affecting libido. Would I then be better of choosing either tbol or tren, instead of running both?

Tren has an androgenic rating of 500. Compared to testosterone, which is the standard at 100, this essentially means tren will make you 5X as horny as test on a mg for mg basis.  I find that tren increases my libido dramatically for the first few weeks then it levels out. What CAN happen is that blood levels of prolactin begin to rise which causes the limp noodle syndrome. You can prevent this by running a dopamine agonist, or adjusting your AI dose. If your estrogen is within range, prolactin won't be an issue.

T-bol also causes an increase in libido for me and many others. It binds strongly to SHBG which allows more of the testosterone you are injecting to be freed up and used for muscle building or plowing pussy and the like.

This is a gross oversimplification of both drugs, but essentially tren has the POSSIBILITY of lowering libido due to prolactin, while Tbol has no negative effect on libido. If pussy is the major concern, Tbol would be the safest bet. If strength is the main concern, tren ace would be the best option 9 times out of 10.

If it were me I would run them both and just pick up some cabaser. It works like a charm for me and it is used by pornstars for sex purposes because it reduces the refractory period so it may be right up your alley anyway. PM me if you need help sourcing it.

[Diesel618]

Then again these are all just suggestions. Being relatively new to "blasting", you would in all likelihood see great benefits from just increasing your test dose to 500-750 mg/week and adding 50 mg of winstrol/day. This would be simple and effective. Add masteron and it would be even better with no downside. Substitute turinabol for winstrol if you want to save your joints.

Tren ace would just take things to another level.

[Jizmo]

Thanks all for the feedback!

And yes, tren was a big disappointment when I tried it. However, I got some feedback from Jizmo (IIRC) that results might have been different had I used tren prop instead of enanthate.


One thing I keep thinking about is the libido. I'm borderline sex addicted, so not being able to get it up is a major concern for me. I'll take jaundice over a limp noodle. Opinions on tbol's effect on libido seem to be mixed, and tren has a reputation for negatively affecting libido. Would I then be better of choosing either tbol or tren, instead of running both?

i hope you mean tren ace not tren prop, otherwise thats not my advice lol

tren ace is much better than tren E for most people. the ester just seem to hit harder and the peak obtained from ace seems to work much "better" with the compound trenbolone in the human body than the slow release enanthate...
but honestly this is only the case for tren imo...
i never noticed ANY difference with all the test esters, all that "test E makes you bloofy and prop is for cutting" talk is plain bullshit to me,
BUT every single time i ran tren ace vs tren E it was always the ace which was much better... and most people look at this compound that way.  might be related to raw/ugl quality of course, but i honestly think that tren ace just works better in the human body..

about the tbol, no idea how it pans out with testosterone. as it was already said, tbol itself is not very androgenic, but as other AAS (mast, winny) it might bind up some SHBG, getting you more free test. imo mast or winny would be the better choices for that though, since they are pretty androgenic in themselves.

[PizzaTrenSlin]

Yes, this question has been done to death. Still I'd like the honorable members to chime in on this.

Goal:
- Have my first serious blast,
- Get a lot stronger,
- Maintain bodyweight.

I am sure some of you would suggest blasting only when gaining weight, but as I am 11 kg over my weight class limit already that is not an option. In the 105 kg I can be competitive, in the Open I am being blown away by miles. Would be nice to lose some weight on this, but that is not essential. Afterwards I will go back to my regular 250 mg/w test.


Questions I have:
1. For strength I was considering adding orals. Never tried winstrol, so would probably start there. However, I already have joint pain quite often, so I was wondering how much of an offset I would need in terms of 'wetter' compounds. If I was running a gram of test per week, would 50-80 mg winstrol still dry out my joints? If so, then I'd consider doing turinabol instead, it worked well for me once.

2. Training frequency would go up, as I have to practice skill as well, not just strength. Would winstrol interfere there?


Thanks for the comments, even the bitchy ones.  

For your goals on BOLD, i think that you will be satisfied just by using 600mg Test E + 400mg Masteron E (aesthetic purpose mainly) + 4-6iu HGH (5on 2 off) + BLAST every 6 weeks with TREN
For HGH check Greytops, a friend of mine tested them with HPLC and with IGF1 blood test and they are good to go, like Genlei Jintropins (that are FDA approved)

HGH isn't cheap but you will be much more overall satisfied by 1 year of this combo....
If you check how much gear you will use (esterless) it's less than 1g of AAS.

I would just skip orals at all. And btw good reading here:
http://www.chemicallyenhanced.info/gh15-archive/the-science-of-trenbolone/

[phreak]

For your goals on BOLD, i think that you will be satisfied just by using 600mg Test E + 400mg Masteron E (aesthetic purpose mainly) + 4-6iu HGH (5on 2 off) + BLAST every 6 weeks with TREN
For HGH check Greytops, a friend of mine tested them with HPLC and with IGF1 blood test and they are good to go, like Genlei Jintropins (that are FDA approved)

HGH isn't cheap but you will be much more overall satisfied by 1 year of this combo....
If you check how much gear you will use (esterless) it's less than 1g of AAS.

I would just skip orals at all. And btw good reading here:
http://www.chemicallyenhanced.info/gh15-archive/the-science-of-trenbolone/

HGH (legit ones) seem to be hard to come by. Plus I'm not at a high enough level yet to make that a reasonable choice. 

But after considering it I will skip orals for now. First I will do a blast with injectables only. Then, end of the year, I'll try a mini blast (?) keeping my 250 mg test/w the same, just adding some orals like winstrol or tbol.


What I'm going to try this time is equal parts test prop, tren ace, mast prop. Still pondering the dose, but probably 100 mg of each daily, so totalling 2700 mg weekly. If that turns out to be overkill I can always reduce the number of weekly injects, going down to EOD.

[PizzaTrenSlin]

700mg TrenA ouch! it's really too much... aim for 350-400mg as first time user...

[youandme]

For strengh without weight gain ive always heard Halotestin is unbeatable.
Winstrol in my experience is pretty good for strengh too but beware with the joints.

Yeah, I agree. The amount that these pro powerlifters tell me they use is crazy!
But yes, they agree on one thing - Halo is the "it" compound.

Also, freaking smelling salts.  Be careful with that crap.

[pestosterone]

All u need is tren and anadrol some test. Just watch diet and u get stronger and even lose weight. Diet dictates the outcome

[residue]

Yeah, I agree. The amount that these pro powerlifters tell me they use is crazy!
But yes, they agree on one thing - Halo is the "it" compound.

Also, freaking smelling salts.  Be careful with that crap.

i've got a powerlifting meet in august(nothing impressive aiming for 1550-1575 totals). im dieting down to the 220 weightclass(at 233) currently.
I was thinking test\tren at 1:2 then adding halo for the last 3 weeks before the comp. would halo be better than lets say anadrol? i dont want to hold water and jump a weight class

[phreak]

Okay, I'm committed now. Package came in on Friday, started the cycle this Saturday. Will be pinning everything but the deca daily.

200 mg/week deca (purely for joint and tendon health)

50 mg/day tren acetate
50 mg/day mast propionate
225 mg/day of various test esters, about 100 mg/day is prop

50 mg/day winstrol oral

Let's see how this worn out body handles this. The last few hours I've had debilitating lower back spasms after this morning's strongman workout. Must be the winny.

[Thong Maniac]

Okay, I'm committed now. Package came in on Friday, started the cycle this Saturday. Will be pinning everything but the deca daily.

200 mg/week deca (purely for joint and tendon health)

50 mg/day tren acetate
50 mg/day mast propionate
225 mg/day of various test esters, about 100 mg/day is prop

50 mg/day winstrol oral

Let's see how this worn out body handles this. The last few hours I've had debilitating lower back spasms after this morning's strongman workout. Must be the winny.

200mg/week deca (purely for heart damage and health issues)