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Author Topic: Dead to the Law ?  (Read 2265 times)
IrishMuscle84
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« on: May 27, 2016, 10:53:27 AM »

If we are Dead to the law why does Christ say, " If you love me, Keep my commandments "  and Said if you want Eternal life, Keep my commandments, BUT............

Romans 7:4 and 7:6 say..................

Likewise My brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God - 7:4

But now we are Released from the law, Having died to that which held us Captive, so that we serve in the new way of the spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

So, are we saved by Keeping the commandments OR by having Faith in Christ ?

Heres a Good video explaination............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU3o14MHs4A
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Sizwe
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 12:58:58 PM »

So, are we saved by Keeping the commandments OR by having Faith in Christ ?

False dichotomy.

James 2:24
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

James 2:14-16
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"

2 Cor 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body."

Mat 7:20
"Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."

Luke 9:23
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."
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tbombz
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2016, 12:22:19 AM »

There are two types of faith.

James talks about one.

Paul talks about the other.

James speaks of a "mental faith." James says "even the demons believe." Demons know in their mind that Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of the universe. But demons do not believe in their heart.

Paul speaks of "heart faith." Paul says "if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Out of a man's heart pours forth his thoughts, feelings, words, and actions.

A person can believe in their mind that Jesus is Lord. They can even work miracles and cast out demons in His name. But if they do not believe in their heart, then their "mental faith" is dead, useless, and cannot save them.

A person must be born-again. This only happens when their hearts are filled with The Holy Spirit. This only happens when they treasure Christ in their heart.

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IrishMuscle84
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2016, 08:35:47 AM »

There are two types of faith.

James talks about one.

Paul talks about the other.

James speaks of a "mental faith." James says "even the demons believe." Demons know in their mind that Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of the universe. But demons do not believe in their heart.

Paul speaks of "heart faith." Paul says "if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Out of a man's heart pours forth his thoughts, feelings, words, and actions.

A person can believe in their mind that Jesus is Lord. They can even work miracles and cast out demons in His name. But if they do not believe in their heart, then their "mental faith" is dead, useless, and cannot save them.

A person must be born-again. This only happens when their hearts are filled with The Holy Spirit. This only happens when they treasure Christ in their heart.


Just heard a pastor talking about Mental faith and Works  Smiley True Faith Produces works.
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tbombz
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2016, 11:17:08 PM »

Indeed, saving faith is repentant faith.
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Sizwe
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2016, 11:41:37 PM »

Indeed, saving faith is repentant faith.

That's interesting, do you believe in once saved always saved tbombz?
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tbombz
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2016, 03:42:35 PM »

That's interesting, do you believe in once saved always saved tbombz?
I don't have a simple yes or no answer for you so I am going to give you my detailed answer. I hope it is not too lengthy...

Now, to begin,  I want you to know that I am not accusing you of being divisive and inappropriate.... because I know that you are not.... But for me, to answer your question, I need to say that the phrasing "once saved always saved"  is a very divisive and inappropriate way to phrase the concept of "eternal security."

I say this because the word "saved" is, in this sense, I think misused.

There is a sense in which true believers are "saved."

At the moment we are born again we are saved. (past tense)
But we are also "being saved." (present tense)
And "we will be saved." (future sense)

past tense -Justification - the moment we believe Jesus in our hearts - we were saved.
present tense - Sanctification - the process of becoming more like Jesus - we are being saved.
future sense - Glorification - the moment we enter eternity with Jesus - we will be saved.


So how does this relate to "once saved, always saved"? Well, I want to ask you: what does it even mean to "be saved"?


Is it "once justified, always justified," or "once sanctified, always sanctified," or "once glorified, always glorified"Huh

The answer to the first two (justification and sanctification) are, of course, debatable.

The answer to the last (glorification), I think, is certain. Once glorified, always glorified. This seems to be true.

But is it possible for a true believer to lose their faith and be condemned?

In one sense, the answer is assuredly that they cannot. For the scriptures say that those who fall away from the faith were never truly part of the faith to begin with:

"They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

Now, I understand this verse to as speaking to the predestined community of the elect which are formed together into the body of Christ from before the foundation of the world. There may be some people who come join our ranks temporarily during this age, but when these people fall away it proves that they were never really one of us to begin with.

Jesus speaks of people who call Him Lord, work miracles and cast out demons in His name, and yet end up condemned in Hell (Mt. 7:21). Paul speaks, in Hebrews (6:4), about those who have been enlightened by the gospel and who have participated in The Holy Spirit, but yet fall away into unrepentant sin and are condemned. These scriptures seem to indicate that there are people who believe, who may even be "saved" in some sense of the word, and yet will fall away and be condemned.  The question is: what is the difference between those who fall away and those who persevere?

I would venture to guess that those who fall away were never, in their heart, truly faithful to Christ. I imagine that these people possessed strong mental knowledge of the truth, and their hearts may have been pleased at the idea of a God who will love them and accept them into eternity because of Christ's work on the cross. But I find it hard to imagine that any of these people ever truly surrendered their hearts to Christ.

So, my answer is somewhat complicated. On the one hand, there is a community of God in Christ that cannot fall away from their election. They are sealed and possess eternal security. On the other hand, there are those who will temporarily share our faith to some degree, they will come among us and participate with us, but they will fall away from us. Were they ever truly "saved," since they were never truly part of us? I dont know.




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Purge_WTF
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 05:18:43 AM »

 Regarding OS, AS, Paul sums up what constitutes genuine apostasy:

 "I suspect you would never intend this, but this is what happens. When you attempt to live by your own religious plans and projects, you are cut off from Christ, you fall out of grace." - Galatians 5:4

 

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tbombz
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 12:00:29 AM »

Regarding OS, AS, Paul sums up what constitutes genuine apostasy:

 "I suspect you would never intend this, but this is what happens. When you attempt to live by your own religious plans and projects, you are cut off from Christ, you fall out of grace." - Galatians 5:4

The book of Galatians is a strong indictment on anyone who would add religious works to the gospel of grace.  Shocked
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