when heavyweight boxing was king..

[obsidian]

http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/10293701/mike-tyson-reveals-his-admiration-for-tyson-fury

[old-school-lifter]

Lennox Lewis is as historically underrated as Larry Holmes.  Lennox had that power that when he hit guys, if he didn't knock them out, he took their will to keep trying.  See the David Tua fight.

David Tua had a cast iron chin and was relentless.  Until he fought Lennox.  Lennox would bang the body and throw a variety of punches upstairs.  It was early in the Tua fight he hit him with a wrap around hook to the body and Tua basically quit after that.

Also, like Holyfield, Lewis had incredible self belief/confidence. 

Tua was a limited slugger who didn't have the footwork, speed, to get inside lewis'' jab/distance
prime Tyson would not have had this problem

remember an OLD ray mercer beat a near prime Lewis @ MSG

[old-school-lifter]

He got rocked by Holmes in the 2nd  round but managed to get up and it was only after his corner threw in the towel that the fight was stopped. If not for some dubious low blow penalties he would have been ahead on the judges' scorecards when the fight was stopped. I really believe Gerry could have been one of the all time greats. He had a great frame and tremendous punching power. The drugs fucked him up though.

Gerry was over- rated
he had a great left hook and that's it
Larry was killing him their whole fight, esp the later rounds, I think it was round 11 or 12, he was just hitting Gerry  @ will

[johnny1]

all time top 10 HW boxers

1. ali
2. holmes
3. Tyson
4. foreman
5.  Louis
6. liston
7.  Dempsey
8. holyfield
9.  frazier
10. lewis
11. klitchko
12. marciano

thats a interesting list..the most notable is Ali...Holmes 1st and 2nd, I could easily switch a absolute prime larry Holmes with Ali, Holmes was IMO one of the most underrated heavyweight champions of them all and IMO only a prime larry Holmes (1979-81 version) would give a 1987-88 mike Tyson problems, I'd rank a prime Lennox Lewis within the top 6 as well as Evander Holyfield, would give Tyson a slight edge on both of them if all 3 were @ their peaks but it would be IMO a lot closer than
People would imagine Lewis and Holyfield were incredible at there bests, Tyson would have too avoid Lewis power and Holyfields short sharp combinations it's a closer call than simply saying Tyson would beat them
Both, however with a prime larry Holmes...I could see him out pointing and frustrating a prime Tyson he had the chin, heart, speed and lighting fast jab and right hand too catch Tyson again and again and his tight defence was IMO the edge Holmes had over Ali witch seperates the 2 of them...that would be the ultimate fight the version of Ali the night he beat Cleveland Williams vs Larry Holmes the version that beat a washed up Ali in 1980.

[old-school-lifter]

j1

hhave to agree with you Larry was a great boxer, had all the tools and a great chin

his main weakness was he could get caught with a shot, esp the over hand right but had amazing chin and recuperative abilities see fights vs shavers 2, witherspoon, snipes

Larry had an underrated RH, combination punching, speed, I would say the best Left jab of all HW- used for offense and defense

gave prime EH so much trouble when LH was in his late 40's, again styles make fights

[johnny1]

Tua was a limited slugger who didn't have the footwork, speed, to get inside lewis'' jab/distance
prime Tyson would not have had this problem

remember an OLD ray mercer beat a near prime Lewis @ MSG

yup agreed, Tua was very good huge left hook, he also had a great chin and lots of heart etc but he didn't have tysons hand speed and foot speed (too quickly get inside Lewis reach) as well as Tysons larger alsenal of upper cuts, right hands, hooks etc he would deliver in lighting fast combinations in his prime the 1980s

[old-school-lifter]

Lennox glass chin and weak defense lets him down

for sure, KO power, solid jab, size but his handspeed and combinations not exceptional

He was more a left jab , jab, distance, left hand kept too low,keep you off, drop a right or left hook, prime Tyson could easily slip the jab and be inside and boom KO on that glass chin with either hand

look @ what Mc Call and Rahman did to Lewis

[old-school-lifter]

yup agreed, Tua was very good huge left hook, he also had a great chin and lots of heart etc but he didn't have tysons hand speed and foot speed (too quickly get inside Lewis reach) as well as Tysons larger alsenal of upper cuts, right hands, hooks etc he would deliver in lighting fast combinations in his prime the 1980s

yes, speed  and power in deadly combo punching was what Tyson hand,  sorta modern day Dempsey but bigger and more power
also Tyson was hard to hit clean in his prime

[Walter Sobchak]

We are probably all too young to have seen Joe Louis in his prime, but he could make a strong claim for #2 behind Ali.

[johnny1]

j1

hhave to agree with you Larry was a great boxer, had all the tools and a great chin

his main weakness was he could get caught with a shot, esp the over hand right but had amazing chin and recuperative abilities see fights vs shavers 2, witherspoon, snipes

Larry had an underrated RH, combination punching, speed, I would say the best Left jab of all HW- used for offense and defense

gave prime EH so much trouble when LH was in his late 40's, again styles make fights

id agree with that as well, Holmes proved he had heart getting off the canvas every time against those names and not only got off the canvas he got off and WON those fights...with the exception of a devestating Tyson in 1988 Holmes got off his ass every time and came back too win and even when Tyson butchered him @ 38 years old he got off the canvas 2 times before Tyson put him out good and proper but Holmes went out swinging like all great champions.

[johnny1]

We are probably all too young to have seen Joe Louis in his prime, but he could make a strong claim for #2 behind Ali.

absolutley joe was incredible dominated the 1930s-1940s 20 something odd title defences and 11 odd years as champ just like Ali...one of a kind.

[old-school-lifter]

just watched Holmes v Ali

man that was brutal and sad

a shot Ali and aprime Larry just beating him up, the number of right hands and body shots Ali took...............just brutal, you could see Ali just literally crumble from some of the body punches

[johnny1]

just watched Holmes v Ali

man that was brutal and sad

a shot Ali and aprime Larry just beating him up, the number of right hands and body shots Ali took...............just brutal, you could see Ali just literally crumble from some of the body punches

yeah...was just a kid when they played that live on tv I asked my father who was the old guy getting beaten up, he just replied...that old guy is the greatest fighter in History and it ends for him now

I've watched that fight a few times in the last couple of decades and as your said Old school it was brutal, the irony being...that was Holmes probably at his very best that night, and a lot of people didn't realise 6 years before that slaughter Holmes was actually one of Ali's young fresh hungry up n coming Sparring partners for Ali's prep for the Rumble in the Jungle in 1974 against Foreman, in one of Ali's earlier autobiographys he mentions clearly Larry Holmes as a young ruthless sparring partner that gave him Hell in preparation for foreman in 74 and that he was a future world champion in the making.

[old-school-lifter]

I also remember LH saying how he was proud when Ali gave him a black eye as a sparring partner and LH refused to wear sunglasses and was proud to show it as a badge of honor

[vascsurgeon]

Ali before 1970 was unbeatable, Louis before 1950 was nearly unbeatable
Impossible to compare but, Ali defeated more heavyweight champions than any other fighter, very impressive.
He would have beaten Tyson, Holmes,Cooney, Lewis,Bowe, Klitchko etc handily. Tyson would have been exciting for 3 rounds
Just my 2 cents

[johnny1]

Ali before 1970 was unbeatable, Louis before 1950 was nearly unbeatable
Impossible to compare but, Ali defeated more heavyweight champions than any other fighter, very impressive.
He would have beaten Tyson, Holmes,Cone, Lewis,Bowie, Klitchko etc handily. Tyson would have been exciting for 3 rounds
Just my 2 cents

fair enough that's what makes comparing fighters from different eras interesting I don't think Ali would of beaten a Prime Holmes, Lewis, Tyson or Evander Handily it would of been very difficult IMO for a prime Ali too contain someone like Lewis..he never faced someone of that size with the power the speed and boxing ring craft, George foreman comes too mind however his poor defence, foot work and hand speed IMO were not on par with a prime Lewis, Tysons ability too quickly close the distance rapid head movement hand speed power arsenal of punches etc would of potentially given Ali a lot more headaches than Joe Frazier and Holmes was pretty much a complete package, and Holyfield was IMO a super charged version of Ken Norton who was a problem at the best of times those 2 fought.

Ali might of beaten them but we will ever know ether way they were all legit heavyweights that @ one time were house hold names that in the last 10 odd years nobody really cares who the champion was or is that's how much heavyweight boxing has nose dived

[V Man]

this is based on a prime Tyson circa 1991

prime Tyson would have KO'd prime lewis, it took a prime lewis 8 rounds to beat a shot  Tyson

I believe also Prime Tyson would have been too much for Prime evander, based on styles
also prime evander struggled with old Larry and had a hard time with old George too

I agree with this. I was watching clips the other day of this fight and it was easy to see Tyson was just a fraction of the boxer he was in his prime.

[Ronnie Rep]

Just watched Ron Lyle vs. Foreman again on YouTube, love that fight. Not a lick of defense, each guy going down a couple times 'til George got him at the end.
Zero boxing going on,  just swinging... I think Lyle knocked out Earnie Shavers, who was also a beast...

That was a brawl. So was Lyle and Shavers.

[AbrahamG]

Top 15 heavyweights

1.  Ali
2.  Louis
3.  Johnson
4.  Holmes
5.  Dempsey
6.  Foreman
7.  Marciano
8.  Lewis
9.  Frazier
10. Holyfield
11. Liston
12. Klitchko (Wlad but Vitali is the better fighter just not as committed to boxing)
13. Tyson
14. Patterson
15. Walcott

*Top 4 I'm pretty firm on.  5-10 you could do some juggling without any argument.
**Just because I have Marciano ahead of Lewis does not mean I think Marciano would
win a head to head match up.  They are where they are based on what they did in their era
not mythical match-ups.

[Disqus]

Top 15 heavyweights

1.  Ali
2.  Louis
3.  Johnson
4.  Holmes
5.  Dempsey
6.  Foreman
7.  Marciano
8.  Lewis
9.  Frazier
10. Holyfield
11. Liston
12. Klitchko (Wlad but Vitali is the better fighter just not as committed to boxing)
13. Tyson
14. Patterson
15. Walcott

*Top 4 I'm pretty firm on.  5-10 you could do some juggling without any argument.
**Just because I have Marciano ahead of Lewis does not mean I think Marciano would
win a head to head match up.  They are where they are based on what they did in their era
not mythical match-ups.

You rate Tyson way too low.

[MoralMan]

Lewis so overrated, beat a 12 years past it Tyson, drew and barely beat a past it Holyfield. Didn't fight Bowe, I don't care about the excuses he didn't fight him. Best win was probably Tua and Mercer.

[AbrahamG]

Lewis so overrated, beat a 12 years past it Tyson, drew and barely beat a past it Holyfield. Didn't fight Bowe, I don't care about the excuses he didn't fight him. Best win was probably Tua and Mercer.

He beat Holyfield 11 rounds to 1 in their first fight and somehow was ruled a draw.  The rematch was closer, but still not in doubt.  Lewis would have beaten any version of Tyson.  Tyson is a bully and Lewis does not get bullied.  Too much self respect and self belief.  Plus, Lennox hit so damn hard that guys did not want to engage.  Fuck Bowe.  Bowe had one good performance in his entire career and that was the first Holyfield fight.  Lewis stopped him in the Olympics and would have hurt him in the pro's.  He avenged both his losses and almost took out Vitali Klitchko's eye.  Vitali was lucky that fight was stopped because he was done.  Lewis would have taken his head off in the 7th or 8th round.  Lewis obliterated Golota after Golota put two frightful beatings on Bowe.  Got right back in with Rahman after he was ko'd and almost decapitated him.  Lewis is an all time great and is very underrated in my opinion. 

[SquidVicious]

You Tyson nuthuggers are delusional. Who did Tyson ever beat other than an old Larry Holmes? He got KO'd by two vastly superior heavyweights in Holyfield and Lewis. He was Kayoed by journeymen like Buster Douglas and Danny Williams. Tysons list of victims reads like a who's who of heavyweight chumps. Every time he stepped up to a real challenge he was beaten down and quit. He literally never beat a single great fighter. That alone puts him way below Ali, Foreman and Frazier. How anyone could watch an average fighter like Buster Douglas 1-2 Tyson for ten rounds and actually think Ali wouldn't have been able to do the same is amazing.

[AbrahamG]

You Tyson nuthuggers are delusional. Who did Tyson ever beat other than an old Larry Holmes? He got KO'd by two vastly superior heavyweights in Holyfield and Lewis. He was Kayoed by journeymen like Buster Douglas and Danny Williams. Tysons list of victims reads like a who's who of heavyweight chumps. Every time he stepped up to a real challenge he was beaten down and quit. He literally never beat a single great fighter. That alone puts him way below Ali, Foreman and Frazier. How anyone could watch an average fighter like Buster Douglas 1-2 Tyson for ten rounds and actually think Ali wouldn't have been able to do the same is amazing.

Exactly.  I would have liked to have seen him face Tim Witherspoon as well.  But Don King kept that from happening.  Terrible Tim was no joke.

[wes]

all time top 10 HW boxers

1. ali
2. holmes
3. Tyson
4. foreman
5.  Louis
6. liston
7.  Dempsey
8. holyfield
9.  frazier
10. lewis
11. klitchko Bonecrusher Smith was better than that tomasto can bro..............just one of many!!
12. marciano

Fixed in Bob Fosters/Jimmy Ellis honor.