i calculated my current food intake and it's easily 5000kcal with 417g proteins

[Erik C]

It's all about calorie balance. Insulin spiking doesn't hinder fat loss nor does it make you fat without the calories.

You're Wrong!

[Simple Simon]

You're Wrong!

Nope, no hes not....
If you are right all they would have needed in Auschwitz is a bag of pear drops each, they would have lived out the war.

[Van_Bilderass]

You're Wrong!

For example:

Energy expenditure and body composition changes after an isocaloric ketogenic diet in overweight and obese men1,2

    Kevin D Hall3,*, Kong Y Chen3, Juen Guo3, Yan Y Lam4, Rudolph L Leibel5, Laurel ES Mayer5, Marc L Reitman3, Michael Rosenbaum5, Steven R Smith6, B Timothy Walsh5, and Eric Ravussin4

+
Author Affiliations

    3National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, Bethesda, MD;
    4Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA;
    5Columbia University, New York, NY; and
    6The Translational Research Institute for Metabolism and Diabetes, Orlando, FL

+
Author Notes

    ↵1 Supported by the Nutrition Sciences Initiative. This work was also supported in part by the Intramural Research Program of the NIH, the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (KDH, KYC, and MLR), NIH grant UL1 TR00040 (Columbia Clinical and Translational Science Award; MR and RL), and Nutrition Obesity Research Center Grant P30DK072476 (ER).

    ↵2 Supplemental Figures 1–3 and Supplemental Tables 1 and 2 are available from the “Online Supporting Material” link in the online posting of the article and from the same link in the online table of contents at http://ajcn.nutrition.org.

    ↵*To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: kevinh@niddk.nih.gov.

Abstract

Background: The carbohydrate–insulin model of obesity posits that habitual consumption of a high-carbohydrate diet sequesters fat within adipose tissue because of hyperinsulinemia and results in adaptive suppression of energy expenditure (EE). Therefore, isocaloric exchange of dietary carbohydrate for fat is predicted to result in increased EE, increased fat oxidation, and loss of body fat. In contrast, a more conventional view that “a calorie is a calorie” predicts that isocaloric variations in dietary carbohydrate and fat will have no physiologically important effects on EE or body fat.

Objective: We investigated whether an isocaloric low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet (KD) is associated with changes in EE, respiratory quotient (RQ), and body composition.

Design: Seventeen overweight or obese men were admitted to metabolic wards, where they consumed a high-carbohydrate baseline diet (BD) for 4 wk followed by 4 wk of an isocaloric KD with clamped protein. Subjects spent 2 consecutive days each week residing in metabolic chambers to measure changes in EE (EEchamber), sleeping EE (SEE), and RQ. Body composition changes were measured by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry. Average EE during the final 2 wk of the BD and KD periods was measured by doubly labeled water (EEDLW).

Results: Subjects lost weight and body fat throughout the study corresponding to an overall negative energy balance of ∼300 kcal/d. Compared with BD, the KD coincided with increased EEchamber (57 ± 13 kcal/d, P = 0.0004) and SEE (89 ± 14 kcal/d, P < 0.0001) and decreased RQ (−0.111 ± 0.003, P < 0.0001). EEDLW increased by 151 ± 63 kcal/d (P = 0.03). Body fat loss slowed during the KD and coincided with increased protein utilization and loss of fat-free mass.

Conclusion: The isocaloric KD was not accompanied by increased body fat loss but was associated with relatively small increases in EE that were near the limits of detection with the use of state-of-the-art technology. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT01967563.

Researcher comments:

"According to the insulin-carbohydrate model, we should have seen an acceleration in the rate of body fat loss when we cut insulin by 50 percent," Hall said. But they didn’t, which he thinks suggests that the regulation of fat tissue storage in the body has to do with more than just insulin levels and their relationship with the carbs we eat.

Now this is a "little" study but it's a metabolic ward study, in which diet is strictly controlled and is obviously superior to studies where participants are asked what they eat or are given diets. People do not adhere to diets and do not know how to count calories, so they are almost useless. One review said 30 years of obesity research is flawed and useless due to this. Compliance is a huge problem when it comes to diet research.

[Erik C]

For example:
Researcher comments:

"According to the insulin-carbohydrate model, we should have seen an acceleration in the rate of body fat loss when we cut insulin by 50 percent," Hall said. But they didn’t, which he thinks suggests that the regulation of fat tissue storage in the body has to do with more than just insulin levels and their relationship with the carbs we eat.

What EXACTLY Were They Eating. This Is Where The Diets Are Rigged To Get Predetermined Results. I've Read Hundreds Of Articles On Low Carb Diets Not Working, But They Always Leave Out The Details Of Exactly What Was Eaten. It's This Crap That We Should Believe The "Scientists" When We Don't Get The Exact Information, To Judge The Validity Of The Experiment.

Some Of What Passes For Low Carb Diet In Studies Is Ridiculous. One Study Of Low Carb Diet Failure To Cut Body Fat, Used A "Low" Carb Diet That Was 58% Carbs!

[Van_Bilderass]

What EXACTLY Were They Eating. This Is Where The Diets Are Rigged To Get Predetermined Results. I've Read Hundreds Of Articles On Low Carb Diets Not Working, But They Always Leave Out The Details Of Exactly What Was Eaten. It's This Crap That We Should Believe The "Scientists" When We Don't Get The Exact Information, To Judge The Validity Of The Experiment.

Some Of What Passes For Low Carb Diet In Studies Is Ridiculous. One Study Of Low Carb Diet Failure To Cut Body Fat, Used A "Low" Carb Diet That Was 58% Carbs!

Alright, how about you post valid studies which support your position then.

Here's another:

Calorie for Calorie, Dietary Fat Restriction Results in More Body Fat Loss than Carbohydrate Restriction in People with Obesity

Highlights

    •19 adults with obesity were confined to a metabolic ward for two 2-week periods
    •Cutting carbohydrates increased net fat oxidation, but cutting fat by equal calories had no effect
    •Cutting fat resulted in more body fat loss as measured by metabolic balance
    •Mathematical model simulations predicted small long-term differences in body fat

Summary

Dietary carbohydrate restriction has been purported to cause endocrine adaptations that promote body fat loss more than dietary fat restriction. We selectively restricted dietary carbohydrate versus fat for 6 days following a 5-day baseline diet in 19 adults with obesity confined to a metabolic ward where they exercised daily. Subjects received both isocaloric diets in random order during each of two inpatient stays. Body fat loss was calculated as the difference between daily fat intake and net fat oxidation measured while residing in a metabolic chamber. Whereas carbohydrate restriction led to sustained increases in fat oxidation and loss of 53 ± 6 g/day of body fat, fat oxidation was unchanged by fat restriction, leading to 89 ± 6 g/day of fat loss, and was significantly greater than carbohydrate restriction (p = 0.002). Mathematical model simulations agreed with these data, but predicted that the body acts to minimize body fat differences with prolonged isocaloric diets varying in carbohydrate and fat.

[Erik C]

Alright, how about you post valid studies which support your position then.

Here's another:

That's What I Want You To Do, Because Twice Now You Haven't. You Ignored That I Pointed Out That These Studies That Allegedly Show That Low Carb Diets Don't Work, Really Don't Use Low Carb Diets.

Let Me Explain, Once Again, How The Diet Should Be Structured. The Diet Should be Two To One Fats To Proteins, Say About 70% Fats/30% Protein, From Animal Sources, And Never More That 10% Carbs At Any One Meal.

Absolutely NO Cheat Days, NO Cheat Meals, No Cheat Snacks, And NO Carb Refeeds. Do That For Two Months, Exactly That Way, And You Are Guaranteed To Lose Your Excess Blubber.

Can You Show Me A Study Based On That Low Carb Diet, That Subjects Failed To Lose Body Fat On? The Answer Is NO, You Can't. It Doesn't Exist. The Studies You Cite Are Pretend Low Carb Diets, So Of Course They Don't Work.

And, Don't Tell Me You Tried It My Way, And It Didn't Work. Just Admit You Don't Have The Self Disciple To Do The Diet Successfully, And You Quit.

[Simple Simon]

That's What I Want You To Do, Because Twice Now You Haven't. You Ignored That I Pointed Out That These Studies That Allegedly Show That Low Carb Diets Don't Work, Really Don't Use Low Carb Diets.

Let Me Explain, Once Again, How The Diet Should Be Structured. The Diet Should be Two To One Fats To Proteins, Say About 70% Fats/30% Protein, From Animal Sources, And Never More That 10% Carbs At Any One Meal.

Absolutely NO Cheat Days, NO Cheat Meals, No Cheat Snacks, And NO Carb Refeeds. Do That For Two Months, Exactly That Way, And You Are Guaranteed To Lose Your Excess Blubber.

Can You Show Me A Study Based On That Low Carb Diet, That Subjects Failed To Lose Body Fat On? The Answer Is NO, You Can't. It Doesn't Exist. The Studies You Cite Are Pretend Low Carb Diets, So Of Course They Don't Work.

And, Don't Tell Me You Tried It My Way, And It Didn't Work. Just Admit You Don't Have The Self Disciple To Do The Diet Successfully, And You Quit.

and if you eat a diet of 2000 cals and eat 200gms protein that leaves 1200 cals to split between carbs and fats, now lets say you eat 80gms fat, thats around 700 cals which leaves you with 500 cals of carbs, which is around 125gms of carbs.

Are you seriously telling me that is enough carbs to create such an insulin spike as to make you fat?

Fuck me mate, thats some fairy tale.

Try it your way?
You have already admitted you are a permabulker FFS.

[Van_Bilderass]

That's What I Want You To Do, Because Twice Now You Haven't. You Ignored That I Pointed Out That These Studies That Allegedly Show That Low Carb Diets Don't Work, Really Don't Use Low Carb Diets.

Let Me Explain, Once Again, How The Diet Should Be Structured. The Diet Should be Two To One Fats To Proteins, Say About 70% Fats/30% Protein, From Animal Sources, And Never More That 10% Carbs At Any One Meal.

Absolutely NO Cheat Days, NO Cheat Meals, No Cheat Snacks, And NO Carb Refeeds. Do That For Two Months, Exactly That Way, And You Are Guaranteed To Lose Your Excess Blubber.

Can You Show Me A Study Based On That Low Carb Diet, That Subjects Failed To Lose Body Fat On? The Answer Is NO, You Can't. It Doesn't Exist. The Studies You Cite Are Pretend Low Carb Diets, So Of Course They Don't Work.

And, Don't Tell Me You Tried It My Way, And It Didn't Work. Just Admit You Don't Have The Self Disciple To Do The Diet Successfully, And You Quit.

Who said low or no carb doesn't work? It does work, no doubt. What I'm saying is that there is no metabolic advantage to cutting out carbs to reduce insulin. "Insulin spiking" doesn't stop fat loss in a deficit, there is no evidence for this. Bodybuilders who do insulin, most pros, do insulin shots during diets and it doesn't stop their fat loss. Of course they do a bunch of fat loss drugs too but they can get just as ripped as guys who do the same fat loss drugs but don't do insulin. Interestingly, a bb on just gh and no insulin will actually have elevated insulin levels from the gh but the elevated insulin doesn't stop fat loss.

[Erik C]

and if you eat a diet of 2000 cals and eat 200gms protein that leaves 1200 cals to split between carbs and fats, now lets say you eat 80gms fat, thats around 700 cals which leaves you with 500 cals of carbs, which is around 125gms of carbs.

Are you seriously telling me that is enough carbs to create such an insulin spike as to make you fat?

Fuck me mate, thats some fairy tale.

Try it your way?
You have already admitted you are a permabulker FFS.

I Understand That What I Post Is Way Beyond Your Mental Comprehension, So There's Is No Point In Me Trying To Explain It To You Again.

I Don't Know Where I Admitted To Being A "Premabulker?"

[Erik C]

Who said low or no carb doesn't work? It does work, no doubt. What I'm saying is that there is no metabolic advantage to cutting out carbs to reduce insulin. "Insulin spiking" doesn't stop fat loss in a deficit, there is no evidence for this. Bodybuilders who do insulin, most pros, do insulin shots during diets and it doesn't stop their fat loss. Of course they do a bunch of fat loss drugs too but they can get just as ripped as guys who do the same fat loss drugs but don't do insulin. Interestingly, a bb on just gh and no insulin will actually have elevated insulin levels from the gh but the elevated insulin doesn't stop fat loss.

I Don't Care What PEDs Users Do, Because What Ever They Say They Do Is A Lie, Including That They "Don't Do PEDs." What The Drug User BBs Do, Is Eat A Lot Of Carbs, So Of Course Their Insulin Levels Spike. Carbs Spike Insulin Levels Much Higher Than Protein Does. The Protein Insulin Rise, Isn't High Enough For The Body To Go Into "Make Body Fat" Mode, That Comes From The Much Higher Insulin Spike Triggered By Carbs.

[anabolichalo]

I Don't Care What PEDs Users Do, Because What Ever They Say They Do Is A Lie, Including That They "Don't Do PEDs." What The Drug User BBs Do, Is Eat A Lot Of Carbs, So Of Course Their Insulin Levels Spike. Carbs Spike Insulin Levels Much Higher Than Protein Does. The Protein Insulin Rise, Isn't High Enough For The Body To Go Into "Make Body Fat" Mode, That Comes From The Much Higher Insulin Spike Triggered By Carbs.

unless you are auswitch mode, there is no way you'll gain muscle naturally

fucking MORON

[Costanza]

Come to Cambodia/Fiji with me next week Bolachio, we'll smash the bitches.

[Ropo]

this mother fucker saying this diet makes me fat

while in reality i'm not even gaining weight

probably going to bump it up to 5500-6000kcal to get real good gains

Well, there is quite simple reason for that, but I don't think you want to hear it...but I tell it anyway: You are moron. Quite simple, isn't it?  IF you eat that much and doesn't even gain weight, you has to be a moron. There isn't nice way to put it, because it is a fact. You see, building muscle mass by training seem to be easiest thing to do, but only morons would think it really is. You have to have balance all the time, meaning that you don't work out too much or eat too little etc. In your case it is obvious that you instead of gaining mass, are burning muscles by too hard training. Muscle tissue is heavier than fat, so while your muscle mass is descending, your BF% is rising while your weight remain as it is. I have seen this million times, but I never realize that even now there is people so stupid that they still make this mistake 

[Waller]

The only way to settle this argument is with some topless shots in the laundry room.

[local hero]

I would put money on anabollocko being just as ripped, I back him in his endeavours and his methods ...

Mr roppo, wold you care to share a pic to back up your amazing knowledge?

[Simple Simon]

That's What I Want You To Do, Because Twice Now You Haven't. You Ignored That I Pointed Out That These Studies That Allegedly Show That Low Carb Diets Don't Work, Really Don't Use Low Carb Diets.

Let Me Explain, Once Again, How The Diet Should Be Structured. The Diet Should be Two To One Fats To Proteins, Say About 70% Fats/30% Protein, From Animal Sources, And Never More That 10% Carbs At Any One Meal.

Absolutely NO Cheat Days, NO Cheat Meals, No Cheat Snacks, And NO Carb Refeeds. Do That For Two Months, Exactly That Way, And You Are Guaranteed To Lose Your Excess Blubber.

Can You Show Me A Study Based On That Low Carb Diet, That Subjects Failed To Lose Body Fat On? The Answer Is NO, You Can't. It Doesn't Exist. The Studies You Cite Are Pretend Low Carb Diets, So Of Course They Don't Work.

And, Don't Tell Me You Tried It My Way, And It Didn't Work. Just Admit You Don't Have The Self Disciple To Do The Diet Successfully, And You Quit.

can you show a study where people in a calorific deficit gained body fat due to spiking of insulin?

Of course people on a low carb diet lost weight, its because they were in a calorific deficit
Are you suggesting that if I ate 4000 cals of fat I would lose body fat in a low carb diet?

[MAXX]

how long have you been on this 5000kcal diet?

Steroids increases metabolism alot but didn't know it did that much

Most would get super fat on 5000kcal

[d0nny2600]

can you show a study where people in a calorific deficit gained body fat due to spiking of insulin?

Of course people on a low carb diet lost weight, its because they were in a calorific deficit
Are you suggesting that if I ate 4000 cals of fat I would lose body fat in a low carb diet?

I fear you are wasting your time...Eric seems dumb.

Eat less calories then you burn and you will lose weight. Eat more than you burn and you will gain weight. All these fruitarian guys eat almost 100% sugar diet and they are all skinny fucks.

[cephissus]

have you considered just injecting more hormones

[MAXX]

somethings fishy here

5000 calories and sitting all day long and farts in an office complex...

pro bb's dont even take in 5000 calories

[dj181]

what's your bodyweight at chief? I've been force feeding myself lately and it's all going to the right places is. thicker and fuller muscles

I attribute it to my hard training every single day as my gear intake has remained the same

just hit delts today and they are looking fantastic  but they are also making my tris look worse coz they are overpowering them FUCK!!!!!

[Erik C]

can you show a study where people in a calorific deficit gained body fat due to spiking of insulin?

Of course people on a low carb diet lost weight, its because they were in a calorific deficit
Are you suggesting that if I ate 4000 cals of fat I would lose body fat in a low carb diet?

As Far As I Know, There Are No Such Studies. In Fact All The Diet Studies Are Funded By The Processed Food Industry, And Supplement Manufacturers, Who Like Making Huge Profits Selling You Cheap Carbs, At Premium Prices.

I Never Said The Low Carb, High Fat And Protein Diet, Should Be Done On A Calorie Deficit. I Never Eat As "Little" As 4000 Calories Per Day. Try To Focus Here (I Know I'm Asking A Lot Of You!): Eating Fat Doesn't Make You Fat. Eating Carbs Makes You Fat. Did That Penetrate Your Numb Skull This Time?

[Simple Simon]

As Far As I Know, There Are No Such Studies. In Fact All The Diet Studies Are Funded By The Processed Food Industry, And Supplement Manufacturers, Who Like Making Huge Profits Selling You Cheap Carbs, At Premium Prices.

I Never Said The Low Carb, High Fat And Protein Diet, Should Be Done On A Calorie Deficit. I Never Eat As "Little" As 4000 Calories Per Day. Try To Focus Here (I Know I'm Asking A Lot Of You!): Eating Fat Doesn't Make You Fat. Eating Carbs Makes You Fat. Did That Penetrate Your Numb Skull This Time?

Fuck me I really hope you are trolling.

If all the diet studies are funded by the processed food companies where do you get your evidence for your claims?
Are you seriously telling me that eating excess calories in the form of fat doesn't make you fat.
Newsflash buddy, all excess calories will make you fat eventually.

So lets get this right, you are claiming you can eat a surplus, even a huge surplus of calories as long as you keep carbs low and you wont add additional bodyfat, is that what you are claiming?

[Erik C]

Fuck me I really hope you are trolling.

If all the diet studies are funded by the processed food companies where do you get your evidence for your claims?
Are you seriously telling me that eating excess calories in the form of fat doesn't make you fat.
Newsflash buddy, all excess calories will make you fat eventually.

So lets get this right, you are claiming you can eat a surplus, even a huge surplus of calories as long as you keep carbs low and you wont add additional bodyfat, is that what you are claiming?

As Long As It Is The Extremely Low Carb, High Fat And Protein Diet That I Described, And You Are Working Out Hard, As I Do. When I Don't Working Out Hard, I Don't Eat As Much, Just Because I'm Not As Hungry. Still, You Can Eat A Lot, On That Diet, And Not Work Out, And Not Get Fat, Simply Because Low Carbs Means You Won't Trigger The Make Fat Hormones In Your Body, And Much Of The Excess Fat And Protein Will Just Pass Through Your Body, Since The Body Has No Need To Assimilate It. Eating Tons Of Carbs Doesn't Give The Body That Choice, It Will Make Body Fat With Excess Carbs.

The Science Behind This, Goes Back 175 Years To Liebig, Dumas, and Bossingault, The Founders Of Nutrition Science. At This Point It Not Rocket Surgery! Might Be A Good Summer Reading Project For You.

[8 INCH not biceps]

Godammit too much ignorance in this thread, the only hormone responsible for fat storage in the body is insulin, if you are crashing your blood sugar levels you will store fat even if your calories are not high, high calories foods with slow digesting carbs is the best way to gain weight for a bodybuilder, some of you guys have no clue about nutrition.