Author Topic: Tour de France.....cycling.  (Read 6309 times)

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2016, 11:20:28 AM »
Thighs like a female crossfitter....
wanna question Arnold, "Sobchak" ? (what kinda name is that, Polak ?)
Remenber your place in the line, dude....  >:(

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2016, 11:32:22 AM »
Bicycling sprint champs make many BB wannabees very humble...their quads are HUGE....and I mean HUGE.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2016, 01:09:20 PM »
Remove all drug testing from cycling.

Let the dead bodies re-shape the rules.
X 100....... 8)

Slapper

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2016, 05:34:24 PM »
He did 'revolutionise' cycling in a sense by bringing his track experience directly into the road peloton and as a result winning the TDF with a track rider - Wiggins.

No he didn't! Stop repeating slogans. What is SKY doing nowadays that they didn't steal from US Postal? What. Is. It? Brailsford's track experience didn't, doesn't and will not mean jack shit. Where did SKY learn to control the mountain stages by imposing an insane rhythm? US Postal. Where did SKY learn to launch the leader 5k out? US Postal. Where did SKY learn to get rid of potential competition by signing them to SKY? US Postal. Where did SKY learn to scout out climbs prior to a competition? US Postal. Where did SKY get their desire to implement the latest technological advances? US Postal. You see, the more you look into it, the more research you put in it, the faster the Brailsford house of cards crumbles.

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People just hate him because they hate SKY because they make cycling boring. The marginal gains was a term he coined and now distances himself from it quoting it was something the media made up LOL. Mainly because of what you say above - it's insulting to constantly hear that pear juice is the secret formula this year lol.

No, it's insulting because we all know what he is doing to win (doping). It's not a leveled playing field if you're playing with almost a 40 million dollar budget and the majority is dealing with less than 20.  

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However, i continue to say it is a level playing ground re drugs whether people want to accept that or not.

Where do you get that??? Who told you that??? How do you know what cyclists take???

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Look at Brittish track cycling - fucking powerhouse nation now and it isn't because of a change in drugs because those have always been there. They looked into every single detail on how to get those few hundredths of a second more and he is applying those same things to the road because nobody else was doing it.

Slogan, as usual. Everyone else is just stupid. Amazing what some people will take as facts because it comes from a (wo)man I like's mouth.

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Track cycling changed considerably in tactics over recent years and it was all to do with watt management vs fatigue. SKY adopted that before anybody else. Marginal gains is a really shit sounding term, it's more appropriate to say they are a step ahead.

Because it's bullshit. Like I said before, ALL teams have over 100 years of rolling inherited experience. There isn't anything new in the world of cycling that is so groundbreaking as to create the gap that we now see with people like Froome and SKY. It's like in bodybuilding... the basics have already been laid out. We all know what you have to do to get from Mike O'Hearn to Markus Ruhl. You can beat around the bush all you want, I, for one, am of the opinion that the only thing that changes is the quantities of PEDs one takes vs. the other.

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Re Lance - Ullrich who finished 2nd to him disagrees with you that it wasn't level. Sure, Lance was corrupt to the core but as for the drug availability for performance they were all still using the same doctors, same programs, same things etc. Operation Puerto was all the evidence anybody needed to realise half the peloton was using the same Doctor who was storing their blood bags for them for transfusions.

By Ullrich's own admission, his only doping protocol involved transfusing his own blood. Lance Armstrong used testosterone patches, GH, cortisone, EPO, et cetera. Does it sound like a leveled playing field to you?

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People need to just accept at the top end it's all even regarding drugs and move on. If your favourite rider doesn't win it's because their prep sucked. Look at Quintana, dude looked pretty good early in the season and then BAM the wheels fell off and he rides poorly.  Althouigh his performance makes me wonder whether the TDF was just a red-herring and he is planning to win the Vuelta.

That's not true at all. You see, the #1 fallacy when it comes to taking PEDs, regardless of sport, is that the others are doing them too. How do you know? Again, take bodybuilding as an example... there's plenty of people out there that are on something and will lie to your face and tell you that they are natural. You see, with bodybuilding there's no way to hide the fact that someone is taking steroids. In cycling, the size differential can be seen in people's career. Take Froome for example... he isn't even a Brit, he's from Kenya. He went from placing 9th Overall at the Tour du Haut Var (the equivalent of a Tour of Northern Vermont) to placing second at the Vuelta a Espaņa about a year later. His records are the most suspicious I've seen since Rumsas came along.

MP

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2016, 05:50:30 PM »
Lance got a raw deal.

The guy beat cancer and went on to be a TDF legend. He inspired many who had cancer.

They went on a witch hunt to take him down, while many others in the sport clearly did dope, dope now, and will dope in the future.

Yeah he lied and pissed a lot of people off, but what else could he do?

He accomplished some great things in his life.

viking1

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2016, 06:37:53 PM »
He was the leader of the cycling mafia. Ruined many names and future work/careers. 5%er.

Mayday

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2016, 03:54:11 AM »
No he didn't! Stop repeating slogans. What is SKY doing nowadays that they didn't steal from US Postal? What. Is. It? Brailsford's track experience didn't, doesn't and will not mean jack shit. Where did SKY learn to control the mountain stages by imposing an insane rhythm? US Postal. Where did SKY learn to launch the leader 5k out? US Postal. Where did SKY learn to get rid of potential competition by signing them to SKY? US Postal. Where did SKY learn to scout out climbs prior to a competition? US Postal. Where did SKY get their desire to implement the latest technological advances? US Postal. You see, the more you look into it, the more research you put in it, the faster the Brailsford house of cards crumbles.

No, it's insulting because we all know what he is doing to win (doping). It's not a leveled playing field if you're playing with almost a 40 million dollar budget and the majority is dealing with less than 20.  

Where do you get that??? Who told you that??? How do you know what cyclists take???

Slogan, as usual. Everyone else is just stupid. Amazing what some people will take as facts because it comes from a (wo)man I like's mouth.

Because it's bullshit. Like I said before, ALL teams have over 100 years of rolling inherited experience. There isn't anything new in the world of cycling that is so groundbreaking as to create the gap that we now see with people like Froome and SKY. It's like in bodybuilding... the basics have already been laid out. We all know what you have to do to get from Mike O'Hearn to Markus Ruhl. You can beat around the bush all you want, I, for one, am of the opinion that the only thing that changes is the quantities of PEDs one takes vs. the other.

By Ullrich's own admission, his only doping protocol involved transfusing his own blood. Lance Armstrong used testosterone patches, GH, cortisone, EPO, et cetera. Does it sound like a leveled playing field to you?

That's not true at all. You see, the #1 fallacy when it comes to taking PEDs, regardless of sport, is that the others are doing them too. How do you know? Again, take bodybuilding as an example... there's plenty of people out there that are on something and will lie to your face and tell you that they are natural. You see, with bodybuilding there's no way to hide the fact that someone is taking steroids. In cycling, the size differential can be seen in people's career. Take Froome for example... he isn't even a Brit, he's from Kenya. He went from placing 9th Overall at the Tour du Haut Var (the equivalent of a Tour of Northern Vermont) to placing second at the Vuelta a Espaņa about a year later. His records are the most suspicious I've seen since Rumsas came along.

1) Nah Brailsford is one up on USPS with tactics. SKY are using methods not used before in managing their power. Sure, it's reminiscent of USPS sure but it is not the same and they do deserve kudos. Whether you like it or not power management has improved massively in the last 10yrs. All post Lance era. You don't want to believe that, no problem.
2) WTF is it with you and thinking only SKY are doping?
3) Because i have experience in that in the realm both doing and also knowing people who did it in my particular circle. You clearly don't and you ignore what the pros even say. They were even using the same doctors. I've done it so i know it.
4) I raced track and i cycle. You have no idea what tactics, wheels, frames, positions, gearing, aerodynamics, weight, power delivery etc are for. They send these guys into wind tunnels, do you realise how expensive that is?   The Brit's found a better formula and it isn't drugs. You seem to be helt bent on hating the Brittish.
5) Wrong. You know nothing about watts and power management.
6) Wrong. Ullrich stated he did everything and anthing to win and nothing was left unturned. None of the doped to the gills pros ever complained that Lance had an edge in that realm. When the whole peloton flipped even lower classed riders were doing transfusions and EPO and everything the top guys were doing. The difference was top riders could afford the EUR500k program to not get caught. Lower riders opted for a cheaper plan which came with higher risk.
7) My circle in cycling tells me otherwise. Even in rec club racing there is a large doping problem and that's average fat joe racing at the local races. A local race here they started rocking up to test people at local club racing and one night half the field suddenly grabbed their bikes, loaded the car and drove off before they could be tested LOL.

The thing is sports become much more enjoyable when you assume they are doping and it's a level field because you are just watching the best person win. When you act like you and others who think only 'some' dope then you piss and bitch and moan about a certain individual or team or whatever and it completely ruins the sport for you.

You have it in so bad for Froome and SKY you can't even accept that they are fucking smart and have made inroads to how to win that no one has done. I already said i don't like their tactics but damn, they work!  Even Tinkoff says Brailsford is the best team director there is but apparently you know more than the riders and team owners lol.  Just chill out man. Relax. Enjoy the sport and accept the best man/team will win at the end of the day because it's all even.

Red Hook

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2016, 05:54:48 AM »


Mayday, what is there not to like about Team Sky's tactics?  they are running guys a little below their FTP, it's hard to attack ahead of that. They have the biggest budget and so they can hire the strongest riders.  Wout Poel looked to be stronger the Nairo Kitana on the hills, Froome didn't even have to attack on the hills to win.  Is this boring to watch, probably, but you can't deny the effectiveness of it.

I have to disagree with your statement "Power management has changed in the past 10 years".  Yes, power meters are great, I have one and hate riding or training without it, I also use Zwift and Strava to track my numbers.  Lactic acid threshold is a key measurement as well, and Dr. Ferrari knew that all to well back then ;)

Ulrich is one of my all time favorites but he wasn't always one for training or coming into the TDF in peak form, simply put he was too big to climb with the mountain goats.


Slacker, everyone scouts out the climbs, every team has the same equipment or access to it. Sky does have the budget to hire team leaders as domestiques.  Richie Porte (now on BMC's GC leader) was Froome's helper and now is leading
I

Slapper

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2016, 06:30:56 AM »
1) Nah Brailsford is one up on USPS with tactics. SKY are using methods not used before in managing their power.


Not used before?  ;D ;D ;D You DO know the house of cards will come crumbling down eventually right? You sound like me back in 2002, when I was cussing people out for calling Lance out on doping. I also devoured all the crazy new cycling routines, new training methods, new nutrition knowledge... and then, when you try it, you see that it's all BS. But I continued on with the lie because I got too emotionally invested in it, even though there was a HUGE mountain of evidence suggesting all of US Postal were on some kind of program.  

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Sure, it's reminiscent of USPS sure but it is not the same and they do deserve kudos. Whether you like it or not power management has improved massively in the last 10yrs. All post Lance era. You don't want to believe that, no problem.


"Power management" has improved massively? Who said that? You mean to tell me that what happened in the past 100 years means nothing? And that a guy from a country that had ZERO Tour de Frances, until Wiggins won, all of a sudden becomes the idol of all-things-cycling. PLEASE! I'm not so much interested in "power management," but in how and where they get the extra power from.

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2) WTF is it with you and thinking only SKY are doping?


I didn't say that. I said that the current state of affairs is ANYTHING but a leveled playing field. When you have a team with twice the budget of 80% of the teams, most of the best cyclists and a leader who is being literally shellacked with doping allegations... connect the dots buddy!

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3) Because i have experience in that in the realm both doing and also knowing people who did it in my particular circle. You clearly don't and you ignore what the pros even say. They were even using the same doctors. I've done it so i know it.

Well, that's a major assumption on your part because... I hate to break it to you but... I've been cycling myself for about 30 years, and am an avid fan of the sport for about the same time. I read cycling magazines, watch cycling events on TV and LISTEN and READ people who are both knowledgeable and cyclists themselves: Greg LeMond, Paul Kimmage, et cetera. In other words, I've been around and can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that the pungent stench of doping surrounding SKY is obvious.
 
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4) I raced track and i cycle. You have no idea what tactics, wheels, frames, positions, gearing, aerodynamics, weight, power delivery etc are for. They send these guys into wind tunnels, do you realise how expensive that is?   The Brit's found a better formula and it isn't drugs. You seem to be helt bent on hating the Brittish.

That's not true, I ride my bike every day of the week. I even ride the Citibike here in NYC every single day. I don't hate the Brits, I hate your stupidity and the childish reticence to give credit to whom credit is due: US Postal. You coming up with all these idiotic new training methods, power management theories is nothing but bullshit. Without US Postal you wouldn't even know what a bicycle is.

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5) Wrong. You know nothing about watts and power management.

Again, don't assume things. I do know what a watt is. I also know how to get the extra power that you need to manage the cycling style of a Froome. On a side note, by all accounts, Chris' style of riding a bicycle is so bio-mechanically OFF that it looks as though he trained on a stationary bicycle all his life, put on a major cycle of PEDs and then put on a racing bike.

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6) Wrong. Ullrich stated he did everything and anthing to win and nothing was left unturned. None of the doped to the gills pros ever complained that Lance had an edge in that realm. When the whole peloton flipped even lower classed riders were doing transfusions and EPO and everything the top guys were doing. The difference was top riders could afford the EUR500k program to not get caught. Lower riders opted for a cheaper plan which came with higher risk.

That's because the other contenders had NO IDEA that Bruyneel was doing a lot of dirty work behind the scenes, having lance donate money to WADA, bribing UCI officials to try to find out who was going to get tested when, et cetera. That I know of, no other teams had access to this valuable information. At the end of the day, if you have privileged information, you can plan transfusions and microdoses ahead of time. Kinda like what happened to Contador when he tested positive: He knew that he was going to lose the TdF on the Tourmalet that year because Andy Schleck was that much stronger than him in the previous stages, so he (allegedly) had a blood transfusion (the level of plasticizers in his blood were through the roof the day after) that contained minor traces of clenbuterol. Had he been Lance, he probably would've known ahead of time that that sample was going to be sent to the Cologne lab with the ultra sensitive equipment, and would've avoided the transfusion.  

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7) My circle in cycling tells me otherwise. Even in rec club racing there is a large doping problem and that's average fat joe racing at the local races. A local race here they started rocking up to test people at local club racing and one night half the field suddenly grabbed their bikes, loaded the car and drove off before they could be tested LOL.

I'm not disagreeing with you on this.

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The thing is sports become much more enjoyable when you assume they are doping and it's a level field because you are just watching the best person win.

Again, this is bullshit. A fallacy. Put the other teams on a 40-million a year budget. Get them the best 4-5 domestiques and a leader who is able to go off radar in some of the most remote Kenyan villages and then we'd be onto something.

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When you act like you and others who think only 'some' dope then you piss and bitch and moan about a certain individual or team or whatever and it completely ruins the sport for you.


I'm not saying that the others do not dope, quite the contrary: I am say most of the cyclists taking part in the TdF are actually on something other than their bikes. NOW, this is where it ends. What I am contending is that the TdF is a competition in which cyclists are on different programs, different PEDs, different tactics, different everything, so... as to why people would call this a "leveled playing field" is beyond me. SKY had most of the TdF team training solely to peak at the TdF. The (arguably) next best team's best domestique, Valverde, did the Giro before going to the Tour. How is this equal? How are they leveled?

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You have it in so bad for Froome and SKY you can't even accept that they are fucking smart and have made inroads to how to win that no one has done. I already said i don't like their tactics but damn, they work!  Even Tinkoff says Brailsford is the best team director there is but apparently you know more than the riders and team owners lol.  Just chill out man. Relax. Enjoy the sport and accept the best man/team will win at the end of the day because it's all even.

Buddy, with a 40-million budget and using US Postal's blueprint to the teeth... It's no wonder. I could be winning the TdF with that team.

God! You make me love the Fourth of July. So. Frigging. Much.

Slapper

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Re: Tour de France.....cycling.
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2016, 06:43:20 AM »
Just so that we put a perspective on things... the guy in yellow is Christopher Froome, of SKY. He adamantly insists he does not dope. The following video shows him dropping a well-known and busted doper: Alberto Contador of TInkoff Saxo: