Tour de France.....cycling.

[Mayday]

I'm still of the mind that Sky is clean till proven otherwise.

I'm friends with one of Lance's former teammates. He outlined everything they took and told me the recovery was miraculous each day. He also said Lance took far less than anyone else- he was that much of a natural talent. They started running gear when they saw guys they were dropping the previous year suddenly leave them in the dust. It was either use or quit the sport. I can see their point. I once raced against a guy who was taking amphetamines- one race he was average and the next no one could hold his wheel.

As for US Postal being the most advanced drug program- not by a long shot. Telekom had a program designed and administered by a team of doctors. Same with Manolo Saiz and Once. My friend Steve Bauer was offered a contract by them but changed his mind after seeing the "medical" program you were expected to go on.

Nah that's the wrong mindset to have. SKY use a track background..... i raced track... it's the fucking dirtiest sport on the planet LOL. Pretty much bodybuilders on bikes. But does it really matter? All top riders are doing the same thing and in the end you must accept it's simply an even field when looking at the top guys.

Your mate on USPS wouldn't know WTF Lance was taking. Just like the bodybuilding industry, they all know who is on what but then there is always some smart ass who says they use 1/10th of what someone else does because they are a Legit alien being. It simply isn't true. Lance wasn't an outlier.


Team SKY have a budget of EUR35m/yr and simply buy all the strongest riders plain and simple. There is no magic doping program that they use vs anybody else. I 100% believe in the marginal gain shit because Brailsford has a track background and they run their strategy with mathematics. That's why they refer to them as Skybots because it's just a formula and is fucking boring - but it's the best strategy to win.

A real shame what has happened as the days of a small group attacking over and over and over is long gone.

[Slapper]

I'm still of the mind that Sky is clean till proven otherwise.

Look, if we apply the "Sky is clean till proven otherwise" to all the cyclists from all the teams we would've busted not even ¼ of the dopers that eventually came out and told the truth. Fact of the matter is that Sky is the most obvious example of a sophisticated doped up team: In most races they are usually at the front imposing an insane rhythm that not even experience climbers can follow, they have culos gordos (which is how sprinters are known in the international peloton and means "big asses" in Spanish) dropping past Giro D'Italia, Vuelta a España and Tour de France multiple mountain stage winners like a bad cold, and lastly, they have Froome, who LITERALLY came our of nowhere to drop a known doper, Contador.

Like I said, the stench of doping is all over Sky, and there's nothing they can do about it.

I'm friends with one of Lance's former teammates. He outlined everything they took and told me the recovery was miraculous each day. He also said Lance took far less than anyone else- he was that much of a natural talent. They started running gear when they saw guys they were dropping the previous year suddenly leave them in the dust. It was either use or quit the sport. I can see their point. I once raced against a guy who was taking amphetamines- one race he was average and the next no one could hold his wheel.

Look, I'm not for or against Lance. What I am against is this idea that Lance was "taking less" than anyone else because he was a natural wonder. How do you or him know what everyone else took? Like I said, Lance went as far as donating money to WADA, tried to buy the sample testing machines he was then going to get tested with, had a plane that was (supposedly) loaded up with medical equipment, had advanced notice of tests, et cetera. But please, stop that bullshit story that he was more talented than anyone else... and that he was taking less than anyone else... How do you know?   

As for US Postal being the most advanced drug program- not by a long shot. Telekom had a program designed and administered by a team of doctors. Same with Manolo Saiz and Once. My friend Steve Bauer was offered a contract by them but changed his mind after seeing the "medical" program you were expected to go on.

Dude, Lance had a plane loaded with transfusion equipment. Which other team was able to enjoy such luxuries? By advanced program I didn't just mean the drugs, I meant all the paraphernalia US Postal had access to, all the behind-the-scenes lobbying Bruyneel and his cronies were doing to find out from the UCI crooks who and when was going to get tested next, etc. US Postal had the competition rigged to such a point the other teams simply had no chance. Leveled playing field my fucking anus.

[Slapper]

Team SKY have a budget of EUR35m/yr and simply buy all the strongest riders plain and simple. There is no magic doping program that they use vs anybody else. I 100% believe in the marginal gain shit because Brailsford has a track background and they run their strategy with mathematics. That's why they refer to them as Skybots because it's just a formula and is fucking boring - but it's the best strategy to win.

Marginal bullshit more like it.

Sky are doping. Face it.

[Slapper]

You see, the main issue with doping and cycling is that the whole medical history of a cyclist as well as the sample collection and testing protocols are entirely a private matter. More often than not we find out who tested positive from a newspaper (because someone at the laboratory snitched,) which in my book speaks volumes about the powers-that-be reticence to publicly decry these fuckers. Just as with the UFC, there are TUEs, and some cyclists have some rather strange TUEs.

Froome himself once was on the verge of testing positive because he was busted for corticosteroid prednisolone, immediately ran to the UCI and got a TUE in record time (usually takes days) so that he didn't test positive. Get this, prior to taking the drug he had been suffering from a chest infection and was really struggling. He then is granted the TUE and goes on to win the competition.

Here's Froome in 2014 taking a puff while in competition (moments later he attacks like a madman):



When found out, he came out and said that he's had asthma all his life. The press then went on a hunt and it was found that he has never EVER mentioned he has asthma. He just has it during the TdF.

WINK WINK

[viking1]

Just like most sports, Cycling is another big business. 5%ers everywhere.

[Walter Sobchak]

Remove all drug testing from cycling.

Let the dead bodies re-shape the rules.

[Hypertrophy]

Nah that's the wrong mindset to have. SKY use a track background..... i raced track... it's the fucking dirtiest sport on the planet LOL. Pretty much bodybuilders on bikes. But does it really matter? All top riders are doing the same thing and in the end you must accept it's simply an even field when looking at the top guys.

Your mate on USPS wouldn't know WTF Lance was taking. Just like the bodybuilding industry, they all know who is on what but then there is always some smart ass who says they use 1/10th of what someone else does because they are a Legit alien being. It simply isn't true. Lance wasn't an outlier.


Team SKY have a budget of EUR35m/yr and simply buy all the strongest riders plain and simple. There is no magic doping program that they use vs anybody else. I 100% believe in the marginal gain shit because Brailsford has a track background and they run their strategy with mathematics. That's why they refer to them as Skybots because it's just a formula and is fucking boring - but it's the best strategy to win.

A real shame what has happened as the days of a small group attacking over and over and over is long gone.

Lol- Oh my friend knew exactly what Lance was taking...

[Slapper]

Lol- Oh my friend knew exactly what Lance was taking...

I heard it from my neighbor's mother-in-law's dentist's veterinarian too.

[Slapper]

Remove all drug testing from cycling.

Let the dead bodies re-shape the rules.

This is exactly my opinion too!

Main issue is, just as with bodybuilding, just when you think these guys aren't dumb enough to take certain PEDs... they end up taking certain PEDs.

[heenok]

Cycling has always been a doping sport, even before steroids or EPO guys were using speed etc...
They are also tested a whole lot more than in any other sports (compared to soccer for exemple). Hence the numerous doping scandals.
Nowadays they are even putting electric engines in the bike. They dont even need drugs anymore i guess.
Anytime theres money on the line people will try to get any edge possible, just the way it is.

[Hypertrophy]

I heard it from my neighbor's mother-in-law's dentist's veterinarian too.

Well, you are getting close with the neighbor thing, haha. I can't give much more than that. I'd lose my invite to the annual New Year's party he gives.

By the way, I saw Lance in October. Like all of us he has his good and bad, but his good is incredibly good. My late friend from upstate NY rode the now defunct Tour of Hope bike ride across America. ( It was sponsored by Bristol Myers). This was for cancer survivors. Lance and a teammate rode 100 miles in the rain just to pace my friend in to the finish of this epic ride.

A few years later when my buddy had cancer come back, and passed away shortly thereafter, Lance visited his widow and gave a yellow jersey from the Tour to her young son. He did a lot more than that and never once wanted to publicize it.  

[viking1]

Can't leave out: Mechanical Doping, Cutting Courses, etc.


It's human nature to cheat.

[Dr Dutch]

Lance was essentially handed a death sentence with metastatic testicular cancer. It spread to his stomach, lungs and brain and he had slim chance of survival. In 1997 he was given the all clear and in 99 he won the Tour.

I don't care what he took the guy was a stud.  Should have just stayed retired and never come back.

I agree with you...except he wanted a come-back.
He never juiced more than any of his top 10 rivals...C'mon....Lancevis tpo 3 ever...

[Chadwick The Beta]

Cycling...oh, brother 

[Julio Ceasar]

the bullet from germany! GRIEPEL the Gorilla!

[Julio Ceasar]

Not bad legs for doing cardio 30houers/week

[Mayday]

Marginal bullshit more like it.

Sky are doping. Face it.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I already said it's an even playing field re drugs.

The fact is it isn't who can take the most wins. Hence the marginal gains is true on top of the drugs.

Lances' prep, team, tactics was what won. No different to Sky in the Tdf. Drugs are equal so the playing field is even. You need to face facts, there is more to cycling than doping.

[Julio Ceasar]

Tired of all doping bullshit people dont know jack shit, they asume, thats all, no proofe!

THe climbing times now are much slower than 10 years ago!

[Mayday]

No.

The bloodpassport was created to give goalposts for.doping so riders could not repeat what they did in the Lance era and earlier.

That's why times are slower but don't kid yourself they still hit 6.2w/kg on climbs which is doping Territory.

Riders are getting done coming off..... My personal feeling is the top riders are constantly on. The blood regulates.itself over time so that solves the bloodpassport issue. You only need to worry about timing of injects then. My own blood parameters look like a normal person yet for cycling I am doped up (lightly compared to lance lol).

So there is truth in what I say as I cycle and also record parameters so I have seen it.myself. Yi never would have believed it prior to me seeing what happened to my own blood values over time.

[MAXX]

but is it worth it?

being so skinny

nobody will give props on the streets you just look like a skinny vegan 

[viking1]

[Slapper]

Did you even read what I wrote?

I already said it's an even playing field re drugs.

The fact is it isn't who can take the most wins. Hence the marginal gains is true on top of the drugs.

Lances' prep, team, tactics was what won. No different to Sky in the Tdf. Drugs are equal so the playing field is even. You need to face facts, there is more to cycling than doping.

Dude, the marginal gains YOU are talking about are not the marginal gains Brailsford keeps harping about. In any case, it is an insult to the community, and one many experienced people take to heart, to think that some traffic light from Lower Upperton all of a sudden revolutionized the world of cycling. Never mind the rolling accumulated knowledge that has been acquired for the past 100+ years. Neegah please. Sky's tactics are the equivalent to Piana's 5%.

Like I said, Lance had foreknowledge of tests, had a plane which he used to dope in, and had a very good team around him. Hardly a leveled playing field.

Check out Jeff Novitzky's Joe Rogan Experience interview (from 10:50 onwards):

Jeff is talking about the team he investigated, namely US Postal, and Lance's habits.

[Slapper]

US Postal/Lance Armstrong had it all rigged to the point that they were getting Trek to send them hundreds of bikes, even though they only used 10-15% of them, and then selling the rest off the back of a truck. They would then use the money to buy steroids, EPO, cortisone, GH, et cetera. The bikes were about 7-15k each, so they really made a lot of money out of it.

And the story about him doping when he got to the TdF is absolute bullshit. Those in-the-know say that he had been doing "things" from the time he was blowing everyone out of the water during his triathlon years.

[Walter Sobchak]

Thighs like a female crossfitter....

[Mayday]

Dude, the marginal gains YOU are talking about are not the marginal gains Brailsford keeps harping about. In any case, it is an insult to the community, and one many experienced people take to heart, to think that some traffic light from Lower Upperton all of a sudden revolutionized the world of cycling. Never mind the rolling accumulated knowledge that has been acquired for the past 100+ years. Neegah please. Sky's tactics are the equivalent to Piana's 5%.

Like I said, Lance had foreknowledge of tests, had a plane which he used to dope in, and had a very good team around him. Hardly a leveled playing field.

He did 'revolutionise' cycling in a sense by bringing his track experience directly into the road peloton and as a result winning the TDF with a track rider - Wiggins.

People just hate him because they hate SKY because they make cycling boring. The marginal gains was a term he coined and now distances himself from it quoting it was something the media made up LOL. Mainly because of what you say above - it's insulting to constantly hear that pear juice is the secret formula this year lol.

However, i continue to say it is a level playing ground re drugs whether people want to accept that or not. Look at Brittish track cycling - fucking powerhouse nation now and it isn't because of a change in drugs because those have always been there. They looked into every single detail on how to get those few hundredths of a second more and he is applying those same things to the road because nobody else was doing it.

Track cycling changed considerably in tactics over recent years and it was all to do with watt management vs fatigue. SKY adopted that before anybody else. Marginal gains is a really shit sounding term, it's more appropriate to say they are a step ahead.


Re Lance - Ullrich who finished 2nd to him disagrees with you that it wasn't level. Sure, Lance was corrupt to the core but as for the drug availability for performance they were all still using the same doctors, same programs, same things etc. Operation Puerto was all the evidence anybody needed to realise half the peloton was using the same Doctor who was storing their blood bags for them for transfusions.   

People need to just accept at the top end it's all even regarding drugs and move on. If your favourite rider doesn't win it's because their prep sucked. Look at Quintana, dude looked pretty good early in the season and then BAM the wheels fell off and he rides poorly.  Althouigh his performance makes me wonder whether the TDF was just a red-herring and he is planning to win the Vuelta.