Aromasin Dr. Colker's veiw

[Arnold jr]

A lot of talk here lately about running Aromasin as part of PCT, here is what Colker thinks about this:

"With Nolvadex on board as well you are talking about a harsh run. The idea should be to come off cleanly, not give your body more toxic metabolites to get rid up. In addition, there is a lot of redundency in using HCG and Clomid to come off cycle. The two should only be stacked in recovery in very specific cases. So don't overdo it here because negative feedback also governs the hypothalamic-pituitary axis and not just the pituitary-gonadal axis. Backlash here could result in a worse physiologic shut-down and an even longer recovery...or perhaps none!"

Any thoughts on this?

[davinci]

i found this article very intresting arnold and its what im goin to use for my pct
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

[musclestang]

so whats colker's view? to just run the nolva as pct?

[Arnold jr]

i found this article very intresting arnold and its what im goin to use for my pct
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

Yeah, I've read the article and I sent it to Colker in an e-mail and he still stood by his claim that it was unnecessary.

[HickoryStick]

Seemed like a lot of HGG....

[DIVISION]

A lot of talk here lately about running Aromasin as part of PCT, here is what Colker thinks about this:

"With Nolvadex on board as well you are talking about a harsh run. The idea should be to come off cleanly, not give your body more toxic metabolites to get rid up. In addition, there is a lot of redundency in using HCG and Clomid to come off cycle. The two should only be stacked in recovery in very specific cases. So don't overdo it here because negative feedback also governs the hypothalamic-pituitary axis and not just the pituitary-gonadal axis. Backlash here could result in a worse physiologic shut-down and an even longer recovery...or perhaps none!"

Any thoughts on this?

He doesn't talk much about Aromasion there......mostly just saying to avoid running Clomid and HCG together to avoid rebound effect.

That's nothing new.  I've been saying for awhile now that Clomid acts the same as Nolvadex for purposes of PCT and using both is pointless.

HCG should be used for long cycle, and for PCT on short cycles.

Nolvadex for PCT on all cycles.

Aromasin/Nolvadex/HCG is ideal, IMO.........that's what I will do from now on.



DIV

[freakfestMD]

Aromasin/Nolvadex/HCG is ideal, IMO.........that's what I will do from now on.

DIV

DIV:

Given that now most of us are advocating the use of hcg throughout our cycles, at 300-500iu every 5 days, how will you run the hcg at the end?  Do you think that 500iu per day for 3 weeks is really necessary if your testes have had some LH analog exposure throughout the cycle?

I'm 4 weeks away from the end of my cycle...

[davinci]

DIV:

Given that now most of us are advocating the use of hcg throughout our cycles, at 300-500iu every 5 days, how will you run the hcg at the end?  Do you think that 500iu per day for 3 weeks is really necessary if your testes have had some LH analog exposure throughout the cycle?

I'm 4 weeks away from the end of my cycle...

make sure you give us an update on how your cycle went bro

[DIVISION]

DIV:

Given that now most of us are advocating the use of hcg throughout our cycles, at 300-500iu every 5 days, how will you run the hcg at the end?  Do you think that 500iu per day for 3 weeks is really necessary if your testes have had some LH analog exposure throughout the cycle?

I'm 4 weeks away from the end of my cycle...

No.

One or the other, not both.

If you've run it all the way through, it will have a reverse effect during PCT.....oversaturation.

I would stick to Nolvadex and Aromasin, as they work together to suppress rising estrogen levels while allowing baseline Testosterone levels to rise.

If you've read Robert's PCT writeup, you'll see what I'm talking about.




DIV

[freakfestMD]

One or the other, not both.

If you've run it all the way through, it will have a reverse effect during PCT.....oversaturation.

DIV

This is my thought exactly.   

[freakfestMD]

make sure you give us an update on how your cycle went bro

I was planning on doing that, but I thought I'd wait until about a month or so after it's finally over.  I returned to the "dark side" exactly 1 year ago after an approximately 14 year hiatus, and now at age 41 I have 2 full cycles under my belt this year.  I thought I'd do sort of a "how far have I come in a year" thing.

Oh, and by the way...








it was worth it!

[Arnold jr]

I e-mailed Colker again and he is still pretty adamant about not using Aromasin...he calls it "the black sheep of AIs" According to him:

"In clinical practice we tend to only use Aromasin in post-menopausal women that have estrogen receptor positive breast cancer with metasteses that has been unresponsive to Tamoxifan therapy. We use it to augment because, even though it is an irreversible aromatase inhibitor, it tends to be a lousy stand-alone therapy for these types of women."

All in all he has still not directly clarified that much for me on this topic, pretty much all he says is that it's a bad idea. Anyway, I might ask him about it some more because it seems I'm not getting very clear comments...maybe my wording of my questions is off, but everything I've asked him about it comes from the Anthony Roberts report and what some of you here who are inclined to advocate this strategy.

[DIVISION]

I e-mailed Colker again and he is still pretty adamant about not using Aromasin...he calls it "the black sheep of AIs" According to him:

"In clinical practice we tend to only use Aromasin in post-menopausal women that have estrogen receptor positive breast cancer with metasteses that has been unresponsive to Tamoxifan therapy. We use it to augment because, even though it is an irreversible aromatase inhibitor, it tends to be a lousy stand-alone therapy for these types of women."

All in all he has still not directly clarified that much for me on this topic, pretty much all he says is that it's a bad idea. Anyway, I might ask him about it some more because it seems I'm not getting very clear comments...maybe my wording of my questions is off, but everything I've asked him about it comes from the Anthony Roberts report and what some of you here who are inclined to advocate this strategy.

With all due respect to the Doc, that doesn't tell me much in respect to adult male bodybuilders using Aromasin for aromatization prevention and overall estrogen suppression.

Post-menopausal women have no basis in what we do.

There is no connection there.

He needs to expand upon his reasoning and at least tie it in with our discussion.




DIV

[freakfestMD]

With all due respect to the Doc, that doesn't tell me much in respect to adult male bodybuilders using Aromasin for aromatization prevention and overall estrogen suppression.

Post-menopausal women have no basis in what we do.

There is no connection there.

He needs to expand upon his reasoning and at least tie it in with our discussion.

DIV

I agree.  Colker has yet to write something that impresses me.  His articles in Muscular Development are poorly written and researched.  I have looked through his book and it gives me no new information.

I don't know much about him, I will admit, but I do know that when you bring him up on PubMed (something I often do to see how many peer-reviewed publications a particular doc has), you come up with a big fat zero...



I suspect he has benefitted from riding the tails of his good friend Greg Valentino.

[DIVISION]

I agree.  Colker has yet to write something that impresses me.  His articles in Muscular Development are poorly written and researched.  I have looked through his book and it gives me no new information.

I don't know much about him, I will admit, but I do know that when you bring him up on PubMed (something I often do to see how many peer-reviewed publications a particular doc has), you come up with a big fat zero...

Sounds like he's working outside his area of expertise, if he has no peer reviewed studies supporting his views, either that or he's speaking "candidly" without any basis in fact. 

I still haven't heard any reasoning why Aromasin is not a good adjunct to Nolvadex in PCT.



DIV