Author Topic: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?  (Read 8167 times)

Yamcha

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #75 on: September 27, 2016, 06:45:15 AM »
A good read/point.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151007796236/i-score-the-first-debate

Scott Adam's Blog.

Trump and Clinton debated each other for the first time last night. Here’s how I score the night.

Clinton won on points. She had more command of the details and the cleaner answers. Trump did a lot of interrupting and he was defensive. If this were a college debate competition, Clinton would be declared the winner. I call that victory on the 2D chess board. But voters don’t care about facts and debating style. They care about how they feel. So let’s talk about that.

For starters, Trump and Clinton both seemed “presidential” enough. That mattered more for Trump. We haven’t seen him off the teleprompter lately. So Trump passed that test by being sufficiently serious.

Clinton looked (to my eyes) as if she was drugged, tired, sick, or generally unhealthy, even though she was mentally alert and spoke well. But her eyes were telling a different story. She had the look of someone whose doctors had engineered 90 minutes of alertness for her just for the event. If she continues with a light campaign schedule, you should assume my observation is valid, and she wasn’t at 100%.

Some will say Clinton outperformed expectations because she didn’t cough, collapse, or die right on stage. That would be true if she also looked healthy in general, and her campaign schedule from here on out is full. We’ll know more this week, based on her schedule.

Clinton’s smile seemed forced, artificial, and frankly creepy. I’m already hearing on Twitter that mentioning a woman’s smile is sexist. I understand the point. But when someone goes full Joker-face and tests the uncanny valley hypothesis at the same time, that’s a bit different from telling a woman to “smile more.” My neighbor Kristina hypothesized that Botox was making her smile look unnatural. Science tells us that when a person’s mouth smiles, but their eyes don’t match the smile, they look disingenuous if not creepy. Botox on your crow’s feet lines around your eyes can give that effect. But whatever the reason, something looked off to me.

To be fair, Trump’s physical appearance won’t win him any votes either. But his makeup looked better than I have seen it (no orange), his haircut was as good as it gets for him, and he was otherwise his normal self that some voters hate and some like.

But the most interesting question has to do with what problem both of them were trying to solve with the debate. Clinton tried to look healthy, and as I mentioned, I don’t think she completely succeeded. But Trump needed to solve exactly one problem: Look less scary. Trump needed to counter Clinton’s successful branding of him as having a bad temperament to the point of being dangerous to the country. Trump accomplished exactly that…by…losing the debate.

Trump was defensive, and debated poorly at points, but he did not look crazy. And pundits noticed that he intentionally avoided using his strongest attacks regarding Bill Clinton’s scandals. In other words, he showed control. He stayed in the presidential zone under pressure. And in so doing, he solved for his only remaining problem. He looked safer.

By tomorrow, no one will remember what either of them said during the debate. But we will remember how they made us feel.

Clinton won the debate last night. And while she was doing it, Trump won the election. He had one thing to accomplish – being less scary – and he did it.


a

Yamcha

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #76 on: September 27, 2016, 07:53:18 AM »
"Debate didn't really change anything... Still the Change Candidate vs. the Career Politician" - Morning Joe

EDIT: "I think Trump is going to get a lot of new voters from this debate." - Mika/Morning Joe.



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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #77 on: September 27, 2016, 08:20:37 AM »
Trump is still praising himself for avoiding clinton's past, but says he may use it in the next debate.   Any chance of props for taking the high road is gone.  He loses that.

He brought up the miss piggy/ miss universe thing today on FOX news.   Dumb.   Explaining that she gained a lot of weight and THAT is why he called her miss piggy.

Fuck.

Is he this stupid?  The CNN pundit just said "Is he TRYING to lose" and you have to wonder.  Of ALL the things he could hammer hilary on - he calls up FOX to explain why he called a woman piggy - and JUSTIFIES it by saying well, she did gain a bunch of weight, so...

I just read this one.. it's true...
"By the end of the 95 minutes, Trump was reduced to a sputtering mess blathering about Rosie O’Donnell and about how he hasn’t yet said the mean things about Hillary that he is thinking."

Las Vegas

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #78 on: September 27, 2016, 08:31:14 AM »
Yeah, real cute having Trump positioned below the word "Men" and Hillary below the word "Right".

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2016, 08:48:37 AM »
Yep, ABC (at least) had her centered directly under "Right of the People" with Trump directly under "Men".

Someone actually sits down and dreams this stuff up, then it's purposefully arranged into what we see.  That's what's happened.  It is just so incredibly dishonest and insulting to do stuff like that, I want to punch someone it makes me so angry.  Who the fuck do they think they are?

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2016, 10:22:08 AM »
Supporters of both sides are going to be proclaiming victory.  MSM will likely declare Hillary the winner.  Online polls will probably say Trump in a landslide. 

Majority of snap polls show Trump won debate by a landslide despite CNN's overwhelming victory for Hillary in biggest official survey
CNN's snap poll gave Clinton the win with 62 per cent to Trump's 27
But most of the others reported Trump was the winner by a landslide
The pair engaged in a vigorous back-and-forth at Hofstra University
Here, we present the results from snap polls conducted after the debate
By DAILYMAIL.COM REPORTER
27 September 2016

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3809204/Most-snap-polls-Trump-winning-debate-landslide.html#ixzz4LTh0uRwY

loco

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #81 on: September 27, 2016, 10:30:02 AM »
Hillary better win this election.  Otherwise she'll go down in history as the one who lost to both extremes, USA's 1st black president and a racist cracka.     ;D

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2016, 10:30:34 AM »
Lester Holt spins debate for Hillary six huge ways, plays 'Gotcha' with Trump

By Dan Gainor  Published September 27, 2016  FoxNews.com

Journalists got their wish. Presidential debate moderator Lester Holt hoisted Hillary Clinton’s campaign high in the air like Atlas. Holt repeatedly called out Trump, as both the Clinton campaign and the liberal media had begged him to do.

Holt reminded viewers he’s liberal – from pushing the birther issue to harassing Trump about his tax returns to a wildly biased question about Clinton as “the first woman nominated by a party” not having “the look.” Clinton skated by with a 15-second response on her emails while Trump was asked repeated follow-up questions while Hillary was not. There was no “deplorables” question and Holt promoted the birther meme without noting its origin in the Clinton camp.

Clinton discussed fact-checking three times, even imploring her media friends: “Well, I hope the fact checkers are turning up the volume and really working hard.” Holt sure was. He dragged the debate to the left in six major ways:

1. Jobs: Holt pressed Trump with two questions on how he was going to add jobs even though the first answer discussed renegotiating trade deals.

2. Taxes: He portrayed the tax plans from the left – Clinton wanting to tax the rich and Trump “calling for tax cuts for the wealthy,” forcing Trump to correct him.

3. Tax Returns: Trump got hit hard with tax return questions for “business conflicts” while Hillary got a slide on emails, her hidden speeches and Clinton Foundation business conflicts.

4. Birthers: Holt asked a “birther” question that lasted longer than Clinton’s email answer. He then added three separate follow-ups to jam up Trump.

5. Iraq: He hammered Trump for supporting the Iraq War, downplaying how Hillary had voted to do the same.

6. Hillary’s Gaffe: When asked about biased policing, Clinton said, “I think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police.” Holt ignored it, rather than challenge the idea everyone is bigoted.

The New York Times said Holt “Opted for Restraint,” and called him a “minimalist moderator.” The paper liked some of Holt’s approach, given the “news media tempest over how aggressively a moderator should fact check candidates.” Still, the Times called it “a split decision” for Holt.

USA Today summed it up with the magic words: “Holt fact-checked Trump.” Right-leaning HeatStreet called Holt the “third debater.” Media Research Center President L. Brent Bozell III (Hint: My boss), said, “Holt failed in his role as a moderator. Period.”

The news media have been shouting “fact check” in desperate cries for relevance. More than a dozen outlets fact-checked the debate as a result. CNN "Reliable Sources" host Brian Stelter, also formerly of the Times, focused on the fact-check strategy to target Trump during his Sunday show. “Does a unique candidate like Donald Trump require a different kind of moderating?” he asked a guest before being told, “No, no absolutely not,” by long-time debate moderator Jim Lehrer.

Bloomberg TV, owned by left-wing media baron Michael Bloomberg, ran on-screen fact checks for its tiny audience. The Times “assembled a team of 18 fact-checkers,” generating a 2,400-word fact-check. The paper even had a correspondent “watching for gender moments.”

The paper pushed hard for fact-checking while it pushed hard for Clinton. Its official endorsement dropped one day before the debate – as certain as death and taxes. It’s opinion page Twitter account oozed pro-Hillary headlines during the debate, such as: “What a fantastic moment, to see Donald Trump self-destruct.”

Left-wing Fusion was worse, calling out Trump for “MANTERRUPTING HILLARY CLINTON.” And The New Yorker complained Holt didn’t attack Trump enough: “CNN LAUNCHES MANHUNT AFTER LESTER HOLT VANISHES FROM DEBATE.”

Journalists have demanded their industry give up neutrality throughout the campaign. It’s a laughable conceit for anyone who recalls Candy Crowley’s 2012 bias or the 2016 CNBC GOP primary debate. Univision anchor Jorge Ramos turned from journalist to crusader with barely any professional criticism. Reporters might as well wear blue jerseys with “I’m With Her” on the back.

Back in August, Times media columnist Jim Rutenberg argued the paper had to sacrifice its alleged neutrality. If you think “Donald J. Trump is a demagogue playing to the nation’s worst racist and nationalistic tendencies,” then “you have to throw out the textbook American journalism,” he wrote.

By Monday, that had escalated into an industry-wide demand for debate moderators to attack Trump misstatements. As Rutenberg explained, that would “require the debate moderators to interject with the truth.”

Journalists have skewered anyone soft on Trump. NBC' the "Today" show’s Matt Lauer faced a “Storm of Criticism Over Clinton-Trump Forum” because he didn’t play the fact-check game. Even "Tonight Show" host Jimmy Fallon was bashed for mussing Trump’s hair instead of smacking him upside the head.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/09/27/lester-holt-spins-debate-for-hillary-6-huge-ways-plays-gotcha-with-trump.html

TuHolmes

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2016, 10:36:23 AM »
its weird how we vote for a person based on the party they are in. Why not just vote for the person based on the person. There are probably independents out there substantially better than the 2 main candidates. Politics makes no sense

100 percent correct.

So many better options in the US. Yet, this is where we are.

It's a mess.

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Re: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Debate - Who will do better?
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2016, 10:40:15 AM »
Trump is a vibrant man, great on television and confident with momentum on his side.  BUT his answers are usually brief vague promises of greatness.  He doesn't understand policy, his military proposals are dangerous and illegal, and his tariff ideas would crush many American businesses and consumers.  Worse, he doesn't know what he doesn't know - and he's unwilling to admit that.

Last night, he had some of that SW FL sinus infection action going on.  He was in my city exactly 1 week ago and it makes total sense.  Lots of sniffles.  Probably can't take sudafed with the heart meds he's on.

His vague, "on the fly" answers were weak.  Failure to prepare meant he was so busy thinking of answers that he wasn't able to come up with attacks.  It was all defense.  I hate to think he would just 'wing it' as President, but I think he would, after seeing his complete lack of preparation for a job interview with a billion people watching.