NPC Nationals winners then and now

[Disgusted]

For whatever reason the talent pool is worse these days. That's the main reason for these sub-par physiques winning these days. Drugs, whether crappy or excellent, don't affect muscle attachments for example. Look at Shawn Ray there and compare to the others, Shawn simply has superior genetic shape.

The average steroid stack is way stronger today. The milligrams are way higher but the compounds are stronger as well. A gram of tren is nothing crazy today whereas 150mg was a lot, IF they even used it.

To some degree genetics yes but I refuse to believe that there just isn't anyone out there that doesn't have elite genetics. Back in those days there were plenty of them and the contests were close. Combine GH and slin and all this other shit they are using today and you are ending up with a grotesque look.

Take someone today and start him out with some test deca winny and watch him grow. IF he sticks to the basics he will get a very thick dense look to his muscles. Add in some anadrol and tren and it will take him to another level. Guys back then didn't have GH and slin and it showed. There physique has a very different look to it. Take a guy like Jeff King, how do you think he would do today? He def wouldn't belong in the line up good or bad. No matter how he looked they wouldn't place him high because he wouldn't fit in, but hey they place Dexter up there so who knows and Jeff in his prime shits on Dexter.

There is no detail to these guys today. Years ago you could tell when the pros got on slin but today you can't tell with the new guys because they all start from day one. This is hurting their physique. Take Jay Cutler for example. In the beginning lots of GH and slin seemed to actually make him look better but after years of abuse you start to see some atrophy in his physique. He lost a lot of fullness, his arms got worse his lower back started to tear and his Christmas tree was gone. His waist got huge his oblique's stuck out and they all have a turtle gut.

This extra 40 pounds on the scale isn't really doing much as far as making them look any better. All it is doing is in the end destroying their bodies and it's not reversible. Look at all the calf atrophy and the quad tears Ronnie and Gunter both and there are more. Gunters calves and Wolf's look identical. If I were to advise anyone today that had any aspirations to compete it would be took stick to steroids only. There is nothing wrong with looking like Arnold or Haney and if you don't have the genetics then how bout just being happy to walk around big and maybe a bit more healthy.

[Van_Bilderass]

Of Course age is a factor.
Not so sure about the Bodyfat- as i was a very lean 95kg & my training partner at the time
a Mr Britain / Europe / universe was never far off condition wise.

After using many different steroids for many years myself  & and with many Different people
in contest prep & off season - There is a difference between Genuine Pharmaceutical steroids
and even the best of the underground lab ones.
Likely down to Purity & Quality Control.

we have to use what is available now and make the most of it.

You can still get some pharma steroids. Various testosterones and various orals. While I would always pick the real pharma they simply aren't magical compared to many UG ones. For example, switching from pharma test to UG test most can't tell the difference. At one point I did 2 amps of Zambon Winstrol a day and thought it was a very weak steroid, couldn't really tell I was on anything. Levrone on the other hand thought it was magic at 2 amps a week ( at least that's what he claimed dosage wise). I've done other pharma orals like Anadrol and if anything the UG Anadrol seemed better.

Do you use any pharma these days? Do you think pharma test is vastly better for example?

Go look at Pumping Iron again, many of the guys in it look natural by today's standards and they were all on that magic Ciba Dianabol and Organon Deca etc.

[illuminati]

You can still get some pharma steroids. Various testosterones and various orals. While I would always pick the real pharma they simply aren't magical compared to many UG ones. For example, switching from pharma test to UG test most can't tell the difference. At one point I did 2 amps of Zambon Winstrol a day and thought it was a very weak steroid, couldn't really tell I was on anything. Levrone on the other hand thought it was magic at 2 amps a week ( at least that's what he claimed dosage wise). I've done other pharma orals like Anadrol and if anything the UG Anadrol seemed better.

Do you use any pharma these days? Do you think pharma test is vastly better for example?

Go look at Pumping Iron again, many of the guys in it look natural by today's standards and they were all on that magic Ciba Dianabol and Organon Deca etc.

I went to watch the Mr Universe NABBA just recently - and the standard of competition overall was atrocious other than for 4-5 in each class - and they were all likely using The Magical Underground lab Products - well 3 of the top place finishers were as i know them personally , yet they looked great & so many didn't.

Likewise i have been to & judged a few shows this year & previous years were the caliber was woeful  - no magical underground super dosed products for them either.

Point being there has always been under par competitors at all shows.


As you stated we all respond differently to different compounds - My training partner back then responded Really well to Stromba tabs & the injectable Heptalyte - Neither did very much for me.

I very rarely see any genuine pharmaceutical products - I do see a few imitation copies of them - Mainly Parabolan - Strange as Negma stopped producing this in 1996 i believe.


For me personally given the choice if i could buy Pharmaceutical or underground -- I would go for the Pharm grade every time.


we now have 50mg winstrol tabs  the originals were 2mg
And 50mg anavar tabs  the originals were 2.5mg

So these are really 25 & 20 times the original dose. Ha

Also deca in ever increasing mg amounts per 1ml when organon could only dissolve 100mg per 1ml
Hmmm so Mr Kitchen / Shed chemist can Magically do what a multi million pound pharmaceutical company's cannot...  I think not.

[Van_Bilderass]

I went to watch the Mr Universe NABBA just recently - and the standard of competition overall was atrocious other than for 4-5 in each class - and they were all likely using The Magical Underground lab Products - well 3 of the top place finishers were as i know them personally , yet they looked great & so many didn't.

Likewise i have been to & judged a few shows this year & previous years were the caliber was woeful  - no magical underground super dosed products for them either.

Point being there has always been under par competitors at all shows.


As you stated we all respond differently to different compounds - My training partner back then responded Really well to Stromba tabs & the injectable Heptalyte - Neither did very much for me.

I very rarely see any genuine pharmaceutical products - I do see a few imitation copies of them - Mainly Parabolan - Strange as Negma stopped producing this in 1996 i believe.


For me personally given the choice if i could buy Pharmaceutical or underground -- I would go for the Pharm grade every time.


we now have 50mg winstrol tabs  the originals were 2mg
And 50mg anavar tabs  the originals were 2.5mg

So these are really 25 & 20 times the original dose. Ha

Also deca in ever increasing mg amounts per 1ml when organon could only dissolve 100mg per 1ml
Hmmm so Mr Kitchen / Shed chemist can Magically do what a multi million pound pharmaceutical company's cannot...  I think not.

The thing is, that UG products have been tested by labs all over the world, some of them government labs, and many have been properly dosed and in some cases overdosed. If the government tests products after a bust to build a case against a dealer what do you make of the results? Are you saying government labs can't properly test for steroids? As far as high dosed gear it can be done with lots of solvents. HG doesn't because there are limits to solvent levels, for example 2% benzyl alcohol in the EU I think, plus higher dosed gear can cause irritation and pain. High dosed gear is not a myth. There are a lot of problems with UG for sure and I would pick HG every time as well but there is real gear, there are real 50mg Winstrols and so on. Even those crappy looking IP Winstrol tabs were tested as slightly overdosed BY GOVERNMENT LABS! Some other tabs were underdosed and some mislabeled but the Winstrol was good from what I remember.

[Twaddle]

I blame the reliance on Hammer Strength.   

[illuminati]

The thing is, that UG products have been tested by labs all over the world, some of them government labs, and many have been properly dosed and in some cases overdosed. If the government tests products after a bust to build a case against a dealer what do you make of the results? Are you saying government labs can't properly test for steroids? As far as high dosed gear it can be done with lots of solvents. HG doesn't because there are limits to solvent levels, for example 2% benzyl alcohol in the EU I think, plus higher dosed gear can cause irritation and pain. High dosed gear is not a myth. There are a lot of problems with UG for sure and I would pick HG every time as well but there is real gear, there are real 50mg Winstrols and so on. Even those crappy looking IP Winstrol tabs were tested as slightly overdosed BY GOVERNMENT LABS! Some other tabs were underdosed and some mislabeled but the Winstrol was good from what I remember.

Yes i agree with you - i am sure there are some very good underground labs producing good
quality gear - well i hope so as i use and sell some of them...Ha ha
And the lads i help use it. - so there is some good gear around.

My point is many items are copied not just steroids -- But given the choice i would buy the
Genuine manufacturers product where ever possible - Be that a car or clothes or gear.
Especially gear -That's just my view having used both types.
 

[Simple Simon]

Yes i agree with you - i am sure there are some very good underground labs producing good
quality gear - well i hope so as i use and sell some of them...Ha ha
And the lads i help use it. - so there is some good gear around.

My point is many items are copied not just steroids -- But given the choice i would buy the
Genuine manufacturers product where ever possible - Be that a car or clothes or gear.
Especially gear -That's just my view having used both types.
 

PMs incoming....in 3,2,1....

[illuminati]

PMs incoming....in 3,2,1....

ops -- Ha ha.

Yes my mailbag will suddenly be overflowing -- Not.

[delta9mda]

Real fda approved pharma vs ug lab underdosed crap

[Slik]

I forgot how good varga was. BB sux today.

[Van_Bilderass]

Real fda approved pharma vs ug lab underdosed crap

Can't always trust pharma either

https://www.instagram.com/p/BL_-ct5lBF7/

[illuminati]

Can't always trust pharma either

https://www.instagram.com/p/BL_-ct5lBF7/

1st Major Give away.

Please -- Pharmacuetical companies Do Not Make 10Ml Multi Dose Bottles.....
Thought You Would Know This.
Becuase The Sterility Risk.

Veterinary Steriods Do Come In Multi Dose Bottles Though.

[Van_Bilderass]

1st Major Give away.

Please -- Pharmacuetical companies Do Not Make 10Ml Multi Dose Bottles.....
Thought You Would Know This.
Becuase The Sterility Risk.

Veterinary Steriods Do Come In Multi Dose Bottles Though.

They do, basically ALL testosterone preparations are 10ml bottles in the US. Europe is different, except the test undecanoate which is a 4ml rubber top vial.

US made pharma test cyp

[US MUSL]

I forgot how good varga was. BB sux today.

I trained with Tom when he was a teenager. Incredibly strong, could bench 320 lbs for 20 reps at a bodyweight less than 180.

[Simple Simon]

1st Major Give away.

Please -- Pharmacuetical companies Do Not Make 10Ml Multi Dose Bottles.....
Thought You Would Know This.
Becuase The Sterility Risk.

Veterinary Steriods Do Come In Multi Dose Bottles Though.

when was the last time you saw a nurse in hospital crack a 1ml vial?

[illuminati]

They do, basically ALL testosterone preparations are 10ml bottles in the US. Europe is different, except the test undecanoate which is a 4ml rubber top vial.

US made pharma test cyp

Ahha - I stand corrected - the difference between uk & USA.
Thank you.

[illuminati]

when was the last time you saw a nurse in hospital crack a 1ml vial?

Weekly as my son is under a consultant & has been for the Last 7+ years
And has his med's in hospital.


Other than that I do my utmost to keep out of hospitals & church's.
 

[Wiggs]

To some degree genetics yes but I refuse to believe that there just isn't anyone out there that doesn't have elite genetics. Back in those days there were plenty of them and the contests were close. Combine GH and slin and all this other shit they are using today and you are ending up with a grotesque look.

Take someone today and start him out with some test deca winny and watch him grow. IF he sticks to the basics he will get a very thick dense look to his muscles. Add in some anadrol and tren and it will take him to another level. Guys back then didn't have GH and slin and it showed. There physique has a very different look to it. Take a guy like Jeff King, how do you think he would do today? He def wouldn't belong in the line up good or bad. No matter how he looked they wouldn't place him high because he wouldn't fit in, but hey they place Dexter up there so who knows and Jeff in his prime shits on Dexter.

There is no detail to these guys today. Years ago you could tell when the pros got on slin but today you can't tell with the new guys because they all start from day one. This is hurting their physique. Take Jay Cutler for example. In the beginning lots of GH and slin seemed to actually make him look better but after years of abuse you start to see some atrophy in his physique. He lost a lot of fullness, his arms got worse his lower back started to tear and his Christmas tree was gone. His waist got huge his oblique's stuck out and they all have a turtle gut.

This extra 40 pounds on the scale isn't really doing much as far as making them look any better. All it is doing is in the end destroying their bodies and it's not reversible. Look at all the calf atrophy and the quad tears Ronnie and Gunter both and there are more. Gunters calves and Wolf's look identical. If I were to advise anyone today that had any aspirations to compete it would be took stick to steroids only. There is nothing wrong with looking like Arnold or Haney and if you don't have the genetics then how bout just being happy to walk around big and maybe a bit more healthy.

Good post

[tres_taco_combo]

Shawn Ray always looks amazing

[Ronnie Rep]

Forgot about him. Great Physique!

[Howard]

Drugs is not the problem the problem is the talent pool is so  low these days just a bunch of dudes with crappy genetics who blew up on drugs, for some reason the guys in the 90s had amazing genetics that we are not seeing today.

Good observation, I agree

[WalterWhite]

To some degree genetics yes but I refuse to believe that there just isn't anyone out there that doesn't have elite genetics. Back in those days there were plenty of them and the contests were close. Combine GH and slin and all this other shit they are using today and you are ending up with a grotesque look.

Take someone today and start him out with some test deca winny and watch him grow. IF he sticks to the basics he will get a very thick dense look to his muscles. Add in some anadrol and tren and it will take him to another level. Guys back then didn't have GH and slin and it showed. There physique has a very different look to it. Take a guy like Jeff King, how do you think he would do today? He def wouldn't belong in the line up good or bad. No matter how he looked they wouldn't place him high because he wouldn't fit in, but hey they place Dexter up there so who knows and Jeff in his prime shits on Dexter.

There is no detail to these guys today. Years ago you could tell when the pros got on slin but today you can't tell with the new guys because they all start from day one. This is hurting their physique. Take Jay Cutler for example. In the beginning lots of GH and slin seemed to actually make him look better but after years of abuse you start to see some atrophy in his physique. He lost a lot of fullness, his arms got worse his lower back started to tear and his Christmas tree was gone. His waist got huge his oblique's stuck out and they all have a turtle gut.

This extra 40 pounds on the scale isn't really doing much as far as making them look any better. All it is doing is in the end destroying their bodies and it's not reversible. Look at all the calf atrophy and the quad tears Ronnie and Gunter both and there are more. Gunters calves and Wolf's look identical. If I were to advise anyone today that had any aspirations to compete it would be took stick to steroids only. There is nothing wrong with looking like Arnold or Haney and if you don't have the genetics then how bout just being happy to walk around big and maybe a bit more healthy.

I'm glad you brought up Jeff because I was able to train with him a few times in Springfield.  No gh, no slin and basic compound movements. He was ahead of his time with dieting and never did drastic things getting ready for a contest. I think this shredded glutes expectation is also making people look worse on stage because of what they have to do to achieve them. The guys in the videos look fuller and don't look like they needed diuretics to achieve their look.

Seems so complex now and even NPC competitors are hiring "gurus" to help them peak. Oh and I have never seen so many pec tears locally in young guys and I think tren is behind that. It's the only common denominator I can find between all the guys.

[jon cole]

I can remember Dorian saying he couldn't take more than 3 shots of parabolan a week
As his mid - lower back would lock up --

my training partner & i  had the same problem if we did 3 shots a week - 2 fine -
a couple of weeks on 3 and lockup on deadlifts / bent rows / squats

How they are doing a 1000+ mgs of Parabolan equivalent !!!

It appears there is some difference to the compounds.

We were using 2x organon sust - deca -From The Napp Labs and 2x parabolan -- Negam

strong as hell & less than 8% body fat felt like could walk through walls
If only i could get the exact same items now..

I remember my old gym in the late 90-early 2000, a lot of lifter were speaking about the good old negma. The magical stack was 2 test e + 2 para negma (152mg). They told me they couldn't handle more than 2/3 negma e.w because it was too strong. I can remember myself the first time i used sustanon in 2002, genuine from european pharma produced in the organon factory based in netherlands, damn it was crazy, the stuff was unbelievable.  Then i used the paki and various source of sust but none of these came close from the pharma sust.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad you brought up Jeff because I was able to train with him a few times in Springfield.  No gh, no slin and basic compound movements. He was ahead of his time with dieting and never did drastic things getting ready for a contest. I think this shredded glutes expectation is also making people look worse on stage because of what they have to do to achieve them. The guys in the videos look fuller and don't look like they needed diuretics to achieve their look.

Seems so complex now and even NPC competitors are hiring "gurus" to help them peak. Oh and I have never seen so many pec tears locally in young guys and I think tren is behind that. It's the only common denominator I can find between all the guys.

Why do you feel tren is behind pec tears?

[Nether Animal]

King had some thick fucking legs...