Ketosis

[Kingjarl]

Does anyone here know a bunch about ketosis and weightlifting? I need to know how many carbs I can eat before/after a workout and still stay in (or very close to) ketosis.

Like, if I'm going to work out and burn say 500 cals, can I eat a powerbar before to ensure my muscles have energy?

[Robert E. Lee]

I'm cutting right now, and I try to stay in Ketosis for the most part.  I eat about 50- 60 grams of carbs for breakfast, then a piece of wheat bread with PB on it before and after workout.  and that will be it for carbs all day.  so far, strength is still up and i'm leaning out quite nicely. 

Not an expert opinion, but hope it helps.

[WhiteHulk4]

Everybody's different in terms of ketosis.  Your best bet is to get some good "Ketostix", the kind that they sell at the pharmacy.  And test yourself a few times a day and see how dark the stix turn. 

The longer you've been in ketosis, the more carbs you can get away with.  The more you work out and that harder you work out - the more carbs you can get away with.  Also, try taking Alpha Lipoic Acid - about 200mg with any meal with a decent amount of carbs.

By the way, you don't want the ketostix to turn too dark.  Granted that means you're WAY IN ketosis, but it also means that your blood is very acidic and that's not healthy.  You want it to just turn pink, which means that you've got ketones floating around for energy, but you're using them at a good pace.

[Kingjarl]

I've actually got the Ketostix, they're extremely helpful. I've been in ketosis (0 carbs/day) for a little over a week now. I've dropped about 2" off my waist and what seems to be around 20lbs. And, I've done it all in bed, recovering from a dislocated shoulder (hockey). Now that I'm back to light excercise, I wanted to know how many carbs I can get away with. Thanks for the replies, guys... they definetly helped.

Orion

[Kolchak]

I've actually got the Ketostix, they're extremely helpful. I've been in ketosis (0 carbs/day) for a little over a week now. I've dropped about 2" off my waist and what seems to be around 20lbs. And, I've done it all in bed, recovering from a dislocated shoulder (hockey). Now that I'm back to light excercise, I wanted to know how many carbs I can get away with. Thanks for the replies, guys... they definetly helped.

Orion

Holy crap, Kingjarl, that's damn good.  Can you give me an example of your daily diet, i.e. foods, portions, frequency.  I've been tossing around the idea of a similar type diet, but am held back by the logistics of it all and I don't want to spend too much time reading a book like Atkins or something.  Thanks!

[Bypass]

I actually used to do the exact same thing in High School and College, when I played football, I was a lineman and would eat like crap 10 months out of the year, then have to drop about 50 - 60 lbs before the season...I ate like a tank, 6 eggs for breakfast with 2 hamburger patties, cheese, your basic high protein diet, I kept my carbs under 20 grams a day, and it kept me in ketosis enough that I would drop roughly 1 - 2 lbs a day, this is not something I would recommend on going, I was able to actually gain in strength and had great energy while I did it, but I would experiment, try going to 15 grams a day if you really are at 0 carbs a day now, when you start to work out, BIGGEST thing about ketosis, DRINK DRINK DRINK WATER!!! it is hard on your kidneys, you have to constantly keep your body flushed out. Good luck to you.

[gibberj2]

Vince Gironda said to eat tons of eggs and beef and no carbs when cutting up. then every few days eat a lot of vegetables and spinach and stuff and then continue with ketosis.

[WhiteHulk4]

I've actually got the Ketostix, they're extremely helpful. I've been in ketosis (0 carbs/day) for a little over a week now. I've dropped about 2" off my waist and what seems to be around 20lbs. And, I've done it all in bed, recovering from a dislocated shoulder (hockey). Now that I'm back to light excercise, I wanted to know how many carbs I can get away with. Thanks for the replies, guys... they definetly helped.

Orion

Well, I hate to break it to you, but MOST of the 20lbs you've lost is probably just water weight and not fat.  When I say most, I mean probably around 16-18lbs of it.  As far as how many carbs you can have.  As a general rule, 20 grams a day will keep you in ketosis - if you are not exercising!  So as you begin to add more and more exercise into your routine, you can gradually go up to 50 or more grams per day.  However, keep testing yourself for ketosis.

Also, this is probably the most important thing to remember about ketogenic diets: You CANNOT simply return to a normal carb-loaded diet afterwards...  You will gain back all the fat you lost in record time and probably gain even more.  You MUST gradually introduce GOOD carbs back into you diet...  Over weeks, not days!  The good side of ketosis is that you're body becomes a fat-burning machine...  The BAD side of ketosis is it also turns your body into a FAT-STORING machine - as soon as you stop the low-carb lifestyle.  It's a double-edged sword of the worst kind.

And before anyone jumps on me about this: YES you can carb up for about 2, maybe 3 days and you will pump your muscles up with glycogen and will look and feel awesome.  BUT once you've refilled the muscle tank, your fat tank will QUICKLY start refilling as well...

[Kingjarl]

I eat lots of eggs, bacon, cheese, burgers... spinach, broccoli... what that's about it. Then you need keto stix to help ensure you stay in ketosis.

Whitehulk: Yes, much of it has been waterweight, but the real truth lies in my waistline measurements. 2.5" off now in a little more than a week. I've severely trimmed down. It's great. I'm one of those guys who stores 90% of his bodyfat in a tire around his waist. I ran 6 times a week, in the morning before breakfast (3-5miles each day) for a month and a half, ate very healthy (no ketosis, though), watched my calorie intake and didn't even make a dent on the waistline. It was crazy.

I seem to store fat at a record pace anyways. Once I'm 'off' the 'diet' then I'll be introducing nothing but good carbs, and only to refill the tank when I work out. I crave carbs, but when I think about what they really are (especially simple carbs), it just makes me sick to my stomach.

[Kolchak]

Good stuff, guys, thanks!

[Kingjarl]

NOTE: This is not a diet for the faint-of-heart. I am F*(*&ng sick of it, actually. Very tough. Not a whole lot of variety or flavor.

[texasRUSH]

i'm on my 4th day of chicken and salad 

[GET_BIGGER]

I try and alternate fish and chicken every other day to help with the monotonicity of it all......but I feel ya bro..

[WhiteHulk4]

You should look into the Metabolic Diet by Dr. DiPasquale...  It's basically a low-carb diet all week long, then on Saturday and Sunday you get to eat whatever you want.  No, it's not like carbing up on the weekends...  You do eat more carbs, but you're encouraged to keep your fat intake fairly high also - which encourages your body to continue to use it as fuel.

I followed this type of eating for almost a year and made incredible progress.  I checked my bodyfat every Monday (after the hog-fest) and it just kept going down week after week.  And it's absolutely wonderful eating pizza every weekend!

[Kingjarl]

Hmm. I like the sound of this Dr. Pasquale, fer sher. I'm soooo craving carbs. It's an odd sensation when your belly is full, but your body is starving for carbs! Anyhow, does anyone know if it's possible to load with dextrose-laced creatine (cell-tech), before/after a workout and still stay in ketosis? It seems to me that if you feed your muscles just enough to recuperate, and give them none to store - you could stay in ketosis, no?

[WhiteHulk4]

No Possible Way!!!  The logic behind the Metabolic Diet and the reason he doesn't suggest the typical "Carb-up" is that while your in ketosis, your body actually prefers fats as fuel.  And it will take a while for it to switch back - unless all you give it is carbs!  So by continuing to eat quite a bit of fat with your carbs for a few days, you'll get to load up on carbs, but your body won't switch back to using them as the preferred source of fuel.

I'm telling you, try it this weekend.  Eat like a pig - but take 200mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid with each big meal...  Go back to your low-carb craziness on Monday and tell us how you look and feel!

[Kingjarl]

Sweet. I love this board, you've been extremely helpful Hulk - thank you. Now, if  I'm in light to moderate ketosis and do the switchup you've suggested this weekend, will the keto strips still read that I'm in ketosis?

I'm asking because I was in moderate ketosis yesterday, then had like 2 tablespoons of mayo and a tablespoon of icecream (like, 10g of carbs), then tested myself an hour later, at which point it said i was out of ketosis. I ate some fat 'n stuff and was back in light ketosis a couple hours later. Does this make sense to you? I can't make sense of it...

[WhiteHulk4]

Keep in mind that ketostix only show the "excess" ketones that you're not using for energy and are just excreting in your urine.  So if you haven't eaten any fat in a while, or have just exercised (using up all your ketones for energy), your ketostix won't show ketosis. 

As for your pig-out weekend.  The ketostix "might" show and they might not.  Make sure you're taking ALA with each big meal.  Then on Sunday night, with your last fun meal, take a double dose - 400-500mg of ALA.  It will help get your low-carb week started off right - in ketosis.  But remember, don't eat any carbs by themselves!