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Author Topic: Mike Mentzer - Discussion  (Read 139830 times)
pellius
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« Reply #1275 on: January 01, 2018, 06:57:15 PM »

Looked his best in '76 with 19 inch arms at a buck 99

Jesus Fuking Christ! Will you just just STFU already about 1976 and that always lame "buck" something expression.
We get it! We Fuking get it already.

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The Scott
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« Reply #1276 on: January 01, 2018, 07:27:40 PM »

Scott / oldschool Did either of you see him competing.

I agree that Dickerson was / is the most unworthy ‘O’ Winner ever
Also as good as Coe was at the 80 ‘O’ how he was tied with Mike
& award a place higher.

I’m wondering if Mike maybe suffered the reverse of Dorian
Whereas I Never thought Dorian was that Good & Didn’t get the hype
From the Pic’s - until I See him & Competed against him,
Dorian was far better than he looked in photos especially as a Pro.

Likewise this Pete Molnar he looks unreal / cartoon’ish in pics on his own,
Although He is a fantastic physique put him in a line up of other World class
Physiques & He isn’t so outstanding,
Maybe Mike suffered in the same way, Outstanding on his own & in photos
Somehow not the same up against his peers.

I never saw him compete in person but I did see him, his brother and Casey train at Gold's Gym.  They trained as they said they did and it was INTENSE!  He looked quite impressive in person and while a gym pump is probably the most dramatic to have, it was still eye opening.

I tried HIT for a month or so back then (failing memory? LOL!) but it just didn't work for me and looking back I suppose the two big reasons were I did not give it enough of a chance by really putting effort into it and I didn't take drugs.    I've said it before but the guys in the 70s at the original Gold's were very honest about taking steroids and I knew that this was what truly seperated me from them.  Yeah, genetics count but to get bigger and stronger than you ever could you needed steroids.  Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't thinking.  Just look at women bodybuilders on drugs and you'll know the truth. 

Genetics dictates shape and to a degree size.  Drugs just amplify the heck out of those two things as shape is more pronounced when the muscle is so much larger.  They won't change your muscle insertions or the shape of those muscles but they will make 'em grow like a weed.  And strength?  The proof was not in the pudding but in the bottle and the results it gave people.  Night and day with those on drugs being the "day".  Talk about seeing the light.

But as was said in the book Pumping Iron, a good tall man will usually beat an equally good shorter man and all because of the not so illusionary "illusion of size".  Alone, Franco was a beast.  Next to the Oak?  A sapling.    There's a reason I think of Padilla as a miniature Arnold and that's not only because he is built in a similar fashion but also because when he's next to Arnold, he looks miniaturized.  Mentzer was what, 5' 8" as was Zane?  Arnold was 6' 1" to 6' 2".  I met him and he was that tall, now not nearly as my daughter saw him in Sacramento and she told me I am much taller than he is now.  But again, the good big man will almost always beat an equally good short man.

Having said that I do think that if Mike had just put his anger into his training like Arnold did after losing to Zane, he would have won the next year and at least two more times.  Franco could not have beaten a spot on Mentzer and Bannout was the more aesthetic but Mike was taller and more impressive and Dickerson just never belonged on the same dais as those men.  Chris is better than me, but that's damning him with very faint praise, LOL!

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« Reply #1277 on: January 01, 2018, 07:37:37 PM »

Jesus Fuking Christ! Will you just just STFU already about 1976 and that always lame "buck" something expression.
We get it! We Fuking get it already.



Lighten up chief, it ain't dat serious
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pellius
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« Reply #1278 on: January 02, 2018, 01:33:16 AM »

I never saw him compete in person but I did see him, his brother and Casey train at Gold's Gym.  They trained as they said they did and it was INTENSE!  He looked quite impressive in person and while a gym pump is probably the most dramatic to have, it was still eye opening.

I tried HIT for a month or so back then (failing memory? LOL!) but it just didn't work for me and looking back I suppose the two big reasons were I did not give it enough of a chance by really putting effort into it and I didn't take drugs.    I've said it before but the guys in the 70s at the original Gold's were very honest about taking steroids and I knew that this was what truly seperated me from them.  Yeah, genetics count but to get bigger and stronger than you ever could you needed steroids.  Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't thinking.  Just look at women bodybuilders on drugs and you'll know the truth. 

Genetics dictates shape and to a degree size.  Drugs just amplify the heck out of those two things as shape is more pronounced when the muscle is so much larger.  They won't change your muscle insertions or the shape of those muscles but they will make 'em grow like a weed.  And strength?  The proof was not in the pudding but in the bottle and the results it gave people.  Night and day with those on drugs being the "day".  Talk about seeing the light.

But as was said in the book Pumping Iron, a good tall man will usually beat an equally good shorter man and all because of the not so illusionary "illusion of size".  Alone, Franco was a beast.  Next to the Oak?  A sapling.    There's a reason I think of Padilla as a miniature Arnold and that's not only because he is built in a similar fashion but also because when he's next to Arnold, he looks miniaturized.  Mentzer was what, 5' 8" as was Zane?  Arnold was 6' 1" to 6' 2".  I met him and he was that tall, now not nearly as my daughter saw him in Sacramento and she told me I am much taller than he is now.  But again, the good big man will almost always beat an equally good short man.

Having said that I do think that if Mike had just put his anger into his training like Arnold did after losing to Zane, he would have won the next year and at least two more times.  Franco could not have beaten a spot on Mentzer and Bannout was the more aesthetic but Mike was taller and more impressive and Dickerson just never belonged on the same dais as those men.  Chris is better than me, but that's damning him with very faint praise, LOL!



I agree with you. Mike was a thinking man and wasn't just going to go through the motions. He would always examine and reexamine what he was doing in an attempt to advance. I really would like to have known how his training methods and physique would have evolved.

I do disagree with you  that he would have beaten Franco. If Platz or Padilla couldn't do it they wouldn't,
or rather Arnold, would have allowed Mike to win. The fix was in. But he would have beaten Dickerson (lol) and Samir.
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« Reply #1279 on: January 02, 2018, 02:54:47 AM »

Did his once a wek training gig back in 99 and i told Blakely about it and he said surprisingly  "that routine would only work for heavy gear users"


He was right on the money - while we still might not know enough to posit "THE" way to maximal development, we know more about it than ever before, and we now know that for naturals - frequency is key as it is the way "they" trigger protein synthesis, something artificially elevated 24/7 in the juiced lifter.

For a natural, this means achieving enough overall volume by utilizing  high frequency/ med-high intensity/ low volume bouts is the most efficient approach; at least according to the sum total of scientific knowledge of the process that we have at the moment. While a natural could conceivably make measurable neural gains with slight accompanying hypertrophy for a short while, once a week just doesn't cause enough protein synthesis to even come close to being an optimal approach.

While one can progress anything,  at least for a while, we now know that steroid users and naturals are best served by entirely different approaches to programming when it comes to hypertrophy.

 
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« Reply #1280 on: January 02, 2018, 05:11:23 AM »

^^^ pretty much what he thought, plus he said that if you are a natty your training loads and intensity aren't enough to warrant such a long break btw training sessions

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« Reply #1281 on: January 02, 2018, 09:48:43 AM »

 Cool


* 17bd9ec0dd5b437396c6e0d16aea4cff-small.jpg (58.35 KB, 970x657 - viewed 752 times.)
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« Reply #1282 on: January 02, 2018, 09:54:18 AM »

Cool

 I think looking at this makes you realise he sacrificed a lot of muscle when he'd diet down.
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« Reply #1283 on: January 02, 2018, 11:57:21 AM »

I think looking at this makes you realise he sacrificed a lot of muscle when he'd diet down.

everything I've read about his diet seemed fucking stupid

super low protein, very low calories to the point of starvation and no doubt plenty of amphetamines
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« Reply #1284 on: January 02, 2018, 12:04:06 PM »

i still cant figure out how the fuck zane beat him in 79,   or how he finished 5th in 80.   makes no sense considering at the time he was weiders top guy and draw, hell weider liked him

Did you ever look at the contest pictures?

J
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« Reply #1285 on: January 02, 2018, 12:28:53 PM »

I agree.  He would have destroyed  Bannout (who was good) and Dickerson (who just plain sucked).  Sheit.  Everyone should've destroyed Dickerson.  Most undeserving Olympia ever.  Totally subjective opinion, I know but for the life of the Buddha I can't understand how that Curious George gay porn star won the Olympia and the god-like Bob Paris was denied it with a far superior physique.
ive wondered that for years...how Dicklickingson ever placed let alone won an Olympia and Paris never walked away with a Sandow.
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« Reply #1286 on: January 02, 2018, 12:35:18 PM »

No so convinced mike would’ve beaten Samir
As he was awesome winning the Mr.O
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« Reply #1287 on: January 02, 2018, 12:55:56 PM »

everything I've read about his diet seemed fucking stupid

super low protein, very low calories to the point of starvation and no doubt plenty of amphetamines

Yep. I think he's right fundamentally but took it to the extreme.
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« Reply #1288 on: January 02, 2018, 01:04:20 PM »

No so convinced mike would’ve beaten Samir
As he was awesome winning the Mr.O

He had both arms and chest, hard to beat that combo 😎
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« Reply #1289 on: January 02, 2018, 01:18:04 PM »

No so convinced mike would’ve beaten Samir
As he was awesome winning the Mr.O

I'm with you Mike wasn't beating Samir.
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« Reply #1290 on: January 02, 2018, 03:15:39 PM »


This is an amazing picture. No one today could look this
good in this pose. Seriously, No One.

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« Reply #1291 on: January 05, 2018, 07:37:20 AM »

good legs and arms
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« Reply #1292 on: January 06, 2018, 05:32:21 AM »

This is an amazing picture. No one today could look this
good in this pose. Seriously, No One.



Agreed. To me he is the true definition of a mesomorph. I think what made Mike great also was that he had both an aesthetic and freaky physique all wrapped up into one.
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« Reply #1293 on: January 06, 2018, 08:10:00 AM »

Agreed. To me he is the true definition of a mesomorph. I think what made Mike great also was that he had both an aesthetic and freaky physique all wrapped up into one.

Massethtic.   Arnold and Franco both possessed such a physique.   Haney was comparatively worthless and should have lost more than a few times to better developed, shorter men but I think Weider let Lee win 8 to try and teach Arnold a lesson and instead wound up showing the world just how great the Oak was and to be honest, still is. 

With the arrival of Dorian we began the age of Assethetics, especially with the slob of a blob known as Ronnie Coleman who took it so far as to be absurd.  Phildo the Dwarf is filling out nicely as the more midgie version of Assethtics.  In between we had Cutler and the nearly ageless Hobbit Dexter Jackson.

The Golden Age ended around 85 or so.  Now we're stuck in the Moldy Age.  Fat guts and fat asses.  Overbuilt dwarves and calf-less tall(er) guys that all have the carapace gut and bubble butt so admired by the schmoe judges.  Even the so-called "classic" physique division is nothing compared to the likes of Mentzer or Zane, let alone Arnold.

I think this is due to the total reliance on drugs alone.  How else to explain total shitheaps like Kai Greene or Phildo Heath, two manlets that wouldn't weigh more than 165 lbs. sans their dope and without the little helpers they wouldn't dare enter a gym.  Fuck 'em.  Prime  Mentzer rules over those twin turds with ease.  And mentally?  Mike on an off day would show the world just how much a faux philosopher Grapefruit Fucker Greene really is.
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« Reply #1294 on: January 07, 2018, 10:58:55 AM »

Massethtic.   Arnold and Franco both possessed such a physique.   Haney was comparatively worthless and should have lost more than a few times to better developed, shorter men but I think Weider let Lee win 8 to try and teach Arnold a lesson and instead wound up showing the world just how great the Oak was and to be honest, still is. 

With the arrival of Dorian we began the age of Assethetics, especially with the slob of a blob known as Ronnie Coleman who took it so far as to be absurd.  Phildo the Dwarf is filling out nicely as the more midgie version of Assethtics.  In between we had Cutler and the nearly ageless Hobbit Dexter Jackson.

The Golden Age ended around 85 or so.  Now we're stuck in the Moldy Age.  Fat guts and fat asses.  Overbuilt dwarves and calf-less tall(er) guys that all have the carapace gut and bubble butt so admired by the schmoe judges.  Even the so-called "classic" physique division is nothing compared to the likes of Mentzer or Zane, let alone Arnold.

I think this is due to the total reliance on drugs alone.  How else to explain total shitheaps like Kai Greene or Phildo Heath, two manlets that wouldn't weigh more than 165 lbs. sans their dope and without the little helpers they wouldn't dare enter a gym.  Fuck 'em.  Prime  Mentzer rules over those twin turds with ease.  And mentally?  Mike on an off day would show the world just how much a faux philosopher Grapefruit Fucker Greene really is.

great post and full of truth
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« Reply #1295 on: January 07, 2018, 11:05:53 AM »

 Smiley


* s-l1600 (35-0).jpg (163.46 KB, 604x599 - viewed 383 times.)
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NarcissisticDeity
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« Reply #1296 on: January 07, 2018, 06:01:05 PM »

Rare shot of Mike


* s-l1600 (16).jpg (342.5 KB, 1045x1057 - viewed 345 times.)
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« Reply #1297 on: January 07, 2018, 06:34:03 PM »

Massethtic.   Arnold and Franco both possessed such a physique.   Haney was comparatively worthless and should have lost more than a few times to better developed, shorter men but I think Weider let Lee win 8 to try and teach Arnold a lesson and instead wound up showing the world just how great the Oak was and to be honest, still is. 

With the arrival of Dorian we began the age of Assethetics, especially with the slob of a blob known as Ronnie Coleman who took it so far as to be absurd.  Phildo the Dwarf is filling out nicely as the more midgie version of Assethtics.  In between we had Cutler and the nearly ageless Hobbit Dexter Jackson.

The Golden Age ended around 85 or so.  Now we're stuck in the Moldy Age.  Fat guts and fat asses.  Overbuilt dwarves and calf-less tall(er) guys that all have the carapace gut and bubble butt so admired by the schmoe judges.  Even the so-called "classic" physique division is nothing compared to the likes of Mentzer or Zane, let alone Arnold.

I think this is due to the total reliance on drugs alone.  How else to explain total shitheaps like Kai Greene or Phildo Heath, two manlets that wouldn't weigh more than 165 lbs. sans their dope and without the little helpers they wouldn't dare enter a gym.  Fuck 'em.  Prime  Mentzer rules over those twin turds with ease.  And mentally?  Mike on an off day would show the world just how much a faux philosopher Grapefruit Fucker Greene really is.

X2.  Harsh, but not wrong.
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NarcissisticDeity
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« Reply #1298 on: January 09, 2018, 02:10:28 PM »

Another rare shot


* download (41).jpg (112.47 KB, 954x531 - viewed 207 times.)
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« Reply #1299 on: January 09, 2018, 02:42:34 PM »

Love that picture.

J
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