Blue Stars and DOMS.

[bigmc]

hey Vince,

what split do you recommend?

since you say to hit the same muscle every 3 days do you then say train 2on/1 off,  1on/2 off or no days off?

[dj181]

very old pic shit mac

why don't you post a more modern one? PUSSY   

still waiting in the ring for ya, pound that fat ass of yours and make ya cry

[bigmc]

very old pic shit mac

why don't you post a more modern one? PUSSY   

still waiting in the ring for ya, pound that fat ass of yours and make ya cry

sure thing "big" guy

thought you were coming over to the uk

or was that the other poster using the account

[NelsonMuntz]

New pinchgripper

[Vince B]

Why would they? They already established that size and strength went down while in DOMS.

The human body responds the same to general principles with only the specifics that matter. It will take more intense/longer training for an experience person to experience DOMS than a newbee but the effects will be the same, i.e., when in a state of DOMS, your body by definition is in break down mode. You will have to get out of DOMS, recover from the stress, to become the adaptation process (repair, growth). That was demonstrated with concrete evidence. You have not demonstrated the opposite result that you claim.

You cannot, and maintain your credibility, insist that the DOMS state must be continually repeated over and over to get the results you want when you, yourself, have not demonstrated your hypothesis even once.  

You overlooked a consideration. What if there was too much damage caused by the training? Like getting blisters or a sunburn, no growth can occur. So we need to see what protocols were used and how much soreness was experienced.

[Vince B]

hey Vince,

what split do you recommend?

since you say to hit the same muscle every 3 days do you then say train 2on/1 off,  1on/2 off or no days off?

I don't recommend getting too many body parts sore at the same time. To try Doms training just train arms every 3rd day for a coupe of weeks and see how you go, don't do

any other body parts.

[pellius]

You overlooked a consideration. What if there was too much damage caused by the training? Like getting blisters or a sunburn, no growth can occur. So we need to see what protocols were used and how much soreness was experienced.

OK, so now it's too much DOMS. A state that you said should be continually maintained. To be always in a state of DOMS to continue growing. So now it's not just DOMS but a certain level of intensity or degree of DOMS? This is something new and never addressed or made reference to before after all these years. How much DOMS is now needed and how do you measure it? And now you are using my examples of the body's adaptation response which you previously rejected.

Why do I have the feeling that if the results supported your beliefs you wouldn't be grasping at straws?

Still waiting on the peer reviewed scientific study you claim you had that supported your DOMS theory. I would have thought you would have that store in a very safe, easily accessed disk or file cabinet.

I have no dog in this fight. Unlike you, I have nothing vested in any theory at all and would just like to know what is the optimal protocol and conditions for muscle hypertrophy. Your bias is obvious, a bias that you accuse others of having. We are all stuck on the same old, same old. But not you. You're all about the objective, dispassionate search for truth.

Until you provide some scientific proof no one will take you seriously. But I'm still rooting for you. If you ever succeed you will exceed the genius and notoriety of Arthur Jones and have a lot of people here and elsewhere eating crow.

[illuminati]

Interesting Discussion 
I have body parts that very rarely suffer from DOMS yet Grow.
No doubt others do also.

Would be interesting to know if -
Platz suffered DOMS in his legs often
Dorian / Ronnie / Franco in there backs
Arnold in his chest & Bi's
Phil Heath in his arms & ( Head  )
Etc etc

Also how on Earth are you meant to gauge the right amount of DOMS for optimal growth.

There may be some validity to the DOMS Theory, Though I'm far from Convinced yet.

[pellius]

Interesting Discussion 
I have body parts that very rarely suffer from DOMS yet Grow.
No doubt others do also.

Would be interesting to know if -
Platz suffered DOMS in his legs often
Dorian / Ronnie / Franco in there backs
Arnold in his chest & Bi's
Phil Heath in his arms & ( Head  )
Etc etc

Also how on Earth are you meant to gauge the right amount of DOMS for optimal growth.

There may be some validity to the DOMS Theory, Though I'm far from Convinced yet.

Despite what Mentzer said, DOMS and getting a pump is something I do think is a positive response to productive training. My contention is that you are not going to grow while in DOMS as that is when you are in the break down state. Only by recovering from DOMS first will hypertrophy occur as indicated and proven in the study posted. It's like the old saying that you don't grow in the gym but only after during the recovery process.

[Vince B]

OK, so now it's too much DOMS. A state that you said should be continually maintained. To be always in a state of DOMS to continue growing. So now it's not just DOMS but a certain level of intensity or degree of DOMS? This is something new and never addressed or made reference to before after all these years. How much DOMS is now needed and how do you measure it? And now you are using my examples of the body's adaptation response which you previously rejected.

Why do I have the feeling that if the results supported your beliefs you wouldn't be grasping at straws?

Still waiting on the peer reviewed scientific study you claim you had that supported your DOMS theory. I would have thought you would have that store in a very safe, easily accessed disk or file cabinet.

I have no dog in this fight. Unlike you, I have nothing vested in any theory at all and would just like to know what is the optimal protocol and conditions for muscle hypertrophy. Your bias is obvious, a bias that you accuse others of having. We are all stuck on the same old, same old. But not you. You're all about the objective, dispassionate search for truth.

Until you provide some scientific proof no one will take you seriously. But I'm still rooting for you. If you ever succeed you will exceed the genius and notoriety of Arthur Jones and have a lot of people here and elsewhere eating crow.

Pellius have a read of Nosaka's article.

https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=doms+and+hypertrophy&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcncC6k7rTAhUDm5QKHVLmBDsQgQMIIDAA

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=W2T8WI6yIMLr8Aeh3aXgDg#safe=off&q=Is+Post-Exercise+Muscle+Soreness+a+Valid+Indicator+of+Muscular+Adaptations?

[bigmc]

people taking vince seriously  

this is the man who said

he trains only arms and his whole body grows

his arms grow nearly an inch over night using his  doms theory

you can grow your arms an inch a month indefinitely with doms


also he hasnt trained properly for forty years

what you

[illuminati]

Despite what Mentzer said, DOMS and getting a pump is something I do think is a positive response to productive training. My contention is that you are not going to grow while in DOMS as that is when you are in the break down state. Only by recovering from DOMS first will hypertrophy occur as indicated and proven in the study posted. It's like the old saying that you don't grow in the gym but only after during the recovery process.

Agreed- Go to gym lift / Train hard - Go rest & eat - Recuperate - Growth

You don't Grow before you are Fully Recovered - DOMS or No DOMS / Pump or No Pump.

[Vince B]

Despite what Mentzer said, DOMS and getting a pump is something I do think is a positive response to productive training. My contention is that you are not going to grow while in DOMS as that is when you are in the break down state. Only by recovering from DOMS first will hypertrophy occur as indicated and proven in the study posted. It's like the old saying that you don't grow in the gym but only after during the recovery process.

My personal experience proves otherwise. If you wait for a recovery, in other words, no more doms pain, then you have to battle the repeated bout effect.

I believe Mentzer didn't imagine that Selye could be mistaken about muscle growth after recovery. Few bodybuilders embraced the idea that trying to get muscles sore was a good idea.

[illuminati]

people taking vince seriously  

this is the man who said

he trains only arms and his whole body grows

his arms grow nearly an inch over night using his  doms theory

you can grow your arms an inch a month indefinitely with doms


also he hasnt trained properly for forty years

what you

Hmmm - Ha Ha,
Yes Good Point.

Oh well i am posting after 3hrs sleep - That's my excuse. 

[Vince B]

Interesting Discussion  
I have body parts that very rarely suffer from DOMS yet Grow.
No doubt others do also.


Also how on Earth are you meant to gauge the right amount of DOMS for optimal growth.

There may be some validity to the DOMS Theory, Though I'm far from Convinced yet.

How I happened on to the DOMS principle was trying to make my arms grow. They stopped growing at 17 1/2 inches.

So I decided to try something different....the novelty principle. I did lying triceps extensions instead of pressdowns.

The next day my triceps were quite sore and my arms were larger. Yes, some have suggested the increase in size

was inflammation. I kept my arms sore for a month and they measured 1 inch larger. Most of that size increase

was hypertrophy.

Ask yourself why muscles develop DOMS from time to time....like after a lay off, or climbing a mountain, or competing

in a powerlifting contest. You have serious advanced bodybuilders getting sore from some novelty. Why would anyone

imagine that this is not going to generate a positive adaptation re strength and hypertrophy?

[Vince B]

Agreed- Go to gym lift / Train hard - Go rest & eat - Recuperate - Growth

You don't Grow before you are Fully Recovered - DOMS or No DOMS / Pump or No Pump.

You are 100% mistaken which doesn't surprise me. You have to think outside the conventional broscience

to acquire genuine new knowledge in bodybuilding.

[illuminati]

You are 100% mistaken which doesn't surprise me. You have to think outside the conventional broscience

to acquire genuine new knowledge in bodybuilding.

Really - opinions you have yours & I have mine.

You havnt managed to provide any irrefutable proof.

Try answering the above bodypart questions regarding the top bodybuilders
Perhaps they also knew / know nothing - Just you.. 

[bigmc]

vince being proven to be a delusional fat cu nt in this thread

[FitnessFrenzy]

Send me a personal message and I will respond.

Oh boy, when SF1900 reads this... 

[rocket]

I have read some of your recent posts and you are quite candid about yourself, especially your looks and situation.
Now Mr Rocket, you live in Australia. Why not come to my gym and have a workout and try my biceps-supinator? No charge. Email me first because

I am not at the gym often.  Send me a message for my email address or contact me through my gym.

Hah.  I have not taped my arms but they might not even be 15 inches.  Your biceps supinator would destroy me.  I never bother directly training my arms, these days.  They are a weakpoint and they aren't worth wasting a lot of time on (remembering that I will never step up to the thong spotlight).

Thanks for the offer - and were I more of a traveller, I might take you up on that but as it is, I have never actually taken a holiday anywhere in my adult life.  I'm not that type of person.

There is still time, though - just stay alive and perhaps I'll grow up

[FitnessFrenzy]

x

[Vince B]

Really - opinions you have yours & I have mine.

You havnt managed to provide any irrefutable proof.

Try answering the above bodypart questions regarding the top bodybuilders
Perhaps they also knew / know nothing - Just you.. 

I published my DOMS theory in a muscle magazine. Where is your theory? This is not a matter of opinion but theories.

[dj181]

I DON'T't recommend getting too many body parts sore at the same time. To try Doms training just train arms every 3rd day for a coupe of weeks and see how you go, don't do

any other body parts.

How many sets reps exercises?

And do you agree with A Jones statement that a muscle will not get bigger til it gets stronger?

And speaking of AJ go to his website aarthurjonesexercise. com  and  check his article "and the facts are"

This article details his own arm experiment were he put 1 full inch on EACH ARM IN UNDER 2 WEEKS

[bigmc]

two elite athletes discussing advanced bb in this thread

[dj181]

^^^ damn fattie

you keep posting up my worst pics but that ok I'll post up my best pics here in a few

p.s. I have a my better physique than you Mr Fat Turd