Blue Stars and DOMS.

[jwb]

I've used the equipment Vince has in his gym many times.

It isn't the prettiest but it is stout as fuck. Most of it is 2" x 2" tubing but it has very high wall thickness. Most equipment is about 1/8" wall thickness his must be about 1/4" wall thickness because the benches are HEAVY.

All his pin loaded equipment also has something I've never seen before... Linear bearings! Normal equipment has steel guide rods with nylon bushings in the top weight plate. His have hardened rods and linear bearings on the top plate - essentially each weight stack is as smooth as a smith machine which feels incredible on lat pulldowns and cable rows especially.

[Vince B]

Human recovery resources has to be prudently divvied out. Just day to day life without weight training requires a full night of sleep and recovery to be ready for the next day. Having a 20 inch arm is pretty low in the pecking order of human survival needs. Even fully recovered, expending recovery resources for large muscles is hardly a top priority. Imagine how much further it drops when you are in a constant state of disrepair, i.e. DOMS

The point I was making is that DOMS isn't always crippling. Once you warm up you can retrain the sore muscle. If done on the third day you will stimulate more growth.

I found that over several weeks my strength increased steadily as did my muscle size. I was surprised that this happened and it goes against what Jones and Mentzer

claimed. Both said you have to wait until the muscle has adapted before training it again. This seems logical but from my personal experiment with my muscles adaptation

occurred without complete recovery. The adaptation that causes the repeated bout affect didn't express itself. If I am right then this is very important for bodybuilders and

everyone on plateaus.

[ratherbebig]

if i do back and biceps and only feel doms in my back, even though both back and biceps grow from the workouts what does that tell us?

if i feel doms, and start to consume some food or supplements which supposedly help with recovery and help with doms, is that a bad thing?

if i take 2 months off and when returning to the gym have the worst doms ever, does that tell us anything?

[bigmc]

vince is claiming all these dramatic gains

but in every pic he is morbidly obese

what a crock of shit

[Vince B]

if i do back and biceps and only feel doms in my back, even though both back and biceps grow from the workouts what does that tell us?

if i feel doms, and start to consume some food or supplements which supposedly help with recovery and help with doms, is that a bad thing?

if i take 2 months off and when returning to the gym have the worst doms ever, does that tell us anything?

If you do back and biceps you usually can generate DOMS in your back but not so easy in the biceps. Doms -> growth. No doms -> stay the same or some growth.

You don't have to experience Doms to gain muscle size.

There has been a lot of research where scientists are trying to eliminate or diminish the Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.

After a layoff it is easy to get sore. Same goes for doing something unusual or intense. For example, doing a max rep in powerlifting.

What most people do is wait until the soreness goes away before training hard again. That is what most people have done for decades in

bodybuilding. While the soreness is not actually what we are aiming for it can be used as an indicator of muscle damage.

[bigmc]

see how vince makes statement of fact

based on his own experience of getting sore when training

any morbidly obese retard will feel pain after lifting weights

lets see some evidence that this postulating old fool is on to something

[FitnessFrenzy]

x

[Thespritz0]

Absolutely. My standard for gym equipment is Getbig proof. In other words, if the muscleheads don't use it then it isn't up to scratch.

As with any invention there has to be modifications after people try it out. There have been several major changes since I first built

the machine by myself back in 2001. I changed angles, the position of two pulleys and removed some pads that were behind the arms.

My son Zorba explained that they weren't necessary and impeded some guys with big arms. I even listened to Goodrum and changed

the colour from magenta to silver. No homo! The latest modification enabled the user to start from a lower bottom position just like you

would doing seated dumbbells. I am afraid that most guys who do bodybuilding are brainwashed re favouring free weights. I would love a gym

with no barbells or dumbbells. The bodybuilders are sufficient there. They do whatever the big guys do in the magazines. Amazing

how training is transmitted and embraced around the world. That is why most guys have no clue about getting big. Reasonably intelligent

Matt Canning has no clue whatever and he ran a forum on bodybuilding. He isn't an expert and what he does testifies to my assessment.

Like, why would a little guy participate in strongman contests? He forgets that Franco almost ruined his career competing in those silly contests.

So what if you can lift a heavy weight. Leave that kind of showing off to the big guys who don't care what they look life. If you want to impress

with your physique then for heaven's sake figure out how to get big. The trouble is that too many guys figure they know what to do but fail to

get decent size. Then they blame the fact that they don't take steroids. When they do and still fail to get big they say they don't have the genetics.

Matt has good delts. If he can make them grow what about the rest of him? If he can figure that one out he might get somewhere. Unfortunately

he will continue doing similar things to no avail. Maybe he will become a writer for a magazine?

^^
LARRY SCOTT used to endorse and work out on a biceps supinator machine back in the 1980's...

[Grape Ape]

^^
LARRY SCOTT used to endorse and work out on a biceps supinator machine back in the 1980's...

pffft....plastic flywheel.

[Coach is Back!]

Right there I know that you are NOT an expert. Whatever do you actually know about genetics and muscular size potential? Nothing. Just guessing like most people.

 

[Vince B]

People claim they know who has the 'genetics' to become a champion and huge.

Would you predict that a young Larry Scott would be Mr Olympia?

[Vince B]

^^
LARRY SCOTT used to endorse and work out on a biceps supinator machine back in the 1980's...

Having handles that twist do not a supinator make. There is no resistance for supination. On my

invention there are two weight stacks. One for flexion and one for supination.

Someone posted that if my machine is too complex I should have made it simpler. Well, how can you make

a machine with two degrees of freedom simpler? By necessity it has to be more complicated than typical

biceps machines.

When I was designing the machine way back in 1986-7 I looked at the other biceps machines by other

manufacturers. Nautilus had a machine where your arms were elevated in front of you. Others made them

at 45 degrees with a pad for upper arms. I reasoned that the position that allowed the most force by the

user was the seated inclined position. Especially if there is a foot rest to push against.

This was the machine back in 2004-5. Two pulleys have been moved, angles changed, and pads removed since then.
Photo was a flash into a mirror.

[Vince B]

I've used the equipment Vince has in his gym many times.

It isn't the prettiest but it is stout as fuck. Most of it is 2" x 2" tubing but it has very high wall thickness. Most equipment is about 1/8" wall thickness his must be about 1/4" wall thickness because the benches are HEAVY.

All his pin loaded equipment also has something I've never seen before... Linear bearings! Normal equipment has steel guide rods with nylon bushings in the top weight plate. His have hardened rods and linear bearings on the top plate - essentially each weight stack is as smooth as a smith machine which feels incredible on lat pulldowns and cable rows especially.

Have you been to the gym recently? If so have you tried the latest version of the biceps-supinator machine? It helps if I am there to show you how to get the best out of using it.

When I started building gym equipment for other gyms in 1981 I called my business Lifetime Gym Equipment. I changed it to Vince's Gym Equipment by 1984. I wanted to design

and build sturdy gym equipment that bodybuilders couldn't destroy! The first benches were made from 5 X 2 inch RHS and I welded 1/4 inch angle iron on each side to bolt the 1 inch plywood to.

You could have dropped those benches out of a cargo jet and not damaged them. The wall thickness was 4.9 mm which was thicker than what others were using. I would have used

stainless steel if it were cheaper. SS costs 10 times what ordinary steel costs. SS = no rust or paint. I use stainless for all handles and bars in my gym.

Some members tell me they have trained in many gyms in Sydney and around the world but consider my equipment to be the smoothest and best they have ever used.

For a reason similar to my not getting blue stars I have never been mentioned in a bodybuilding magazine as a gym equipment inventor and builder.

[Vince B]

Here are some leg machines I designed and built. The hack squat is also a standing calf machine. It took 9 months to complete. Lots of polished stainless steel on it.

It was built in 1992 and modified a decade later. I made the angle steeper so that the shafts wouldn't flex as much when 1000 pounds was used. Look at the counter

weight....solid 6 inch stainless steel running on linear bearings. You won't find quality like this in other gym equipment.

[Kwon]

[Vince B]

Gotta say....there are a lot of total f-wits on this forum!

[WalterWhite]

Did you ever discuss the cycle you did before your last contest?

Who took this pic?

[Vince B]

Did you ever discuss the cycle you did before your last contest?

Who took this pic?

Photo probably taken by Roz.

Steroid cycle? Two Dianabol tablets a day for 50 days since there were 100 tablets in the bottle. Used 2 bottles in 1975. That was it, nothing else.

I hate needles so avoided anything that could be injected. Didn't get much hypertrophy but my strength went up a bit. I got the Dianabol from

a Chinese pharmacist in Kings Cross, Sydney. Maybe it wasn't very good because nothing happened re muscle size. That is when I easily

cleaned and pressed 270 pounds. It flew up but I didn't try any more on the day. I could do 6 reps with 225 cold. I did a strict 400 pound bench

press weighing 200 pounds. I competed at 190 but still didn't have enough cuts.

We had Ray and girlfriend Kathy staying at our place then Bev and Steve came to stay as well. I drove them around Sydney and here they are at

Bondi Beach. Roz and I slept on the sofa while Bev and Steve had our king size waterbed. Before they left I told Steve I would stay at his place

if I ever visited New York. The jerk replied, "Don't bother!"

[Dave D]

Have you been to the gym recently? If so have you tried the latest version of the biceps-supinator machine? It helps if I am there to show you how to get the best out of using it.

When I started building gym equipment for other gyms in 1981 I called my business Lifetime Gym Equipment. I changed it to Vince's Gym Equipment by 1984. I wanted to design

and build sturdy gym equipment that bodybuilders couldn't destroy! The first benches were made from 5 X 2 inch RHS and I welded 1/4 inch angle iron on each side to bolt the 1 inch plywood to.

You could have dropped those benches out of a cargo jet and not damaged them. The wall thickness was 4.9 mm which was thicker than what others were using. I would have used

stainless steel if it were cheaper. SS costs 10 times what ordinary steel costs. SS = no rust or paint. I use stainless for all handles and bars in my gym.

Some members tell me they have trained in many gyms in Sydney and around the world but consider my equipment to be the smoothest and best they have ever used.

For a reason similar to my not getting blue stars I have never been mentioned in a bodybuilding magazine as a gym equipment inventor and builder.

Vince I ask this with all due respect, but if the equipment is so complex that you need to show someone how to properly use it (and this is a gym rat) haven't you done your product a disservice? You're training biceps not flying a plane.


Bigmc brings up a valid point about you not being in good shape in any of the photos you've posted. That's not to say you need to be in contest shape, but you should at least have some musculature and definition.

You could very well be the present day Arthur Jones, if your equipment is so good (and I'm sure it's better than 95% of what's in gyms today) why isn't it being sold? Is it because you're in Australia and shipping costs prevent you from marketing it to the masses?

[Vince B]

Vince I ask this with all due respect, but if the equipment is so complex that you need to show someone how to properly use it (and this is a gym rat) haven't you done your product a disservice? You're training biceps not flying a plane.


Bigmc brings up a valid point about you not being in good shape in any of the photos you've posted. That's not to say you need to be in contest shape, but you should at least have some musculature and definition.

You could very well be the present day Arthur Jones, if your equipment is so good (and I'm sure it's better than 95% of what's in gyms today) why isn't it being sold? Is it because you're in Australia and shipping costs prevent you from marketing it to the masses?

I am no Arthur Jones. That guy was smart and knew how to promote products. I dislike talking to gym equipment companies.

I haven't tried to sell any gym equipment since the last gym I installed in Sydney in 1985. Gym owners wouldn't pay what it cost me to produce so from then on I  made

equipment for our gyms only. We had two gyms for several years. Eventually we combined the two gyms so had heaps of equipment.

I was watching an advanced guy use my machine. I figured since he was a big guy he knew how to use it. Well, he completely missed that you had to grip the handles overhand if you wanted to have resistance on the twisting movement.

There are still several adjustments that can be made. Seat height, back rest position, leg position and finally handle position. Since the handles telescope to accommodate different length arms many people pull them out instead of

rotating the arms of the machine. Yes, the machine will self-adjust after a few reps but I like to be there to make sure they are setup in the optimal position. Bodybuilders don't like using new equipment for some reason.

What does my current physique have to do with my gym equipment? Arthur Jones wasn't much to look at but he made lots of great equipment. My arms and legs are fine. Just have a bigger waist than I would like. Trouble is I don't

exercise much and meals are usually enjoyable so I finish them and like to have dessert. Bodyweight has stayed the same for the last 10 years or so. Things won't change unless I get motivated. I would rather edit photos and post

online than go to the gym. Go figure.

[Vince B]

I was always interested in pinch gripping after I saw guys in the magazines holding onto floor joists only with their hands. I started out in a basement gym

of a neighbour so I tried pinching those joists until I could support my 165 pound body for a brief moment. We had some casual pinching contests in Western

Gym in Vancouver and I always beat everyone. So when I opened our gym in Sydney in 1971 I assembled a pinching apparatus made out of the 4 inch by 2 inch

plate with a hole in the middle to hold a bar that could be loaded with additional weight. We used that in some of our pinching contests. When the comp got

close it was difficult to judge because it wasn't always obvious if the apparatus cleared the floor. That was when I decided to build a machine that solved the

cheating problem. The first machine was made with small 2.5 kg plates. The stack weighed 50 kg with the plate. I used polished stainless steel to avoid any

rough surfaces you find on steel and cast iron. At the first contest using the machine I lifted the whole stack plus a 2.5 kg plate. So I built a second machine

with 5 kg plates plus several 2.5 kg plates near the top. I had 80 kg on the stack. When we used the new machine in a contest I lifted 82.5 kg. That far

exceeded the world record in one hand pinch gripping. I needed more weight so replaced some of the small plates with larger plates. The machine now had

90 kg. The next contest saw me lift 92.5 kg which is the most anyone has ever lifted on it. I then replaced more plates so that we now have 100kg. No one

has ever lifted the whole weight stack. I had to raise the platform because the standing position ended up causing hip and back pain because of the lop-sided

effort over and over. I did do some left hand pinching but used my right in competions.

[Marty Champions]

[WalterWhite]

Photo probably taken by Roz.

Steroid cycle? Two Dianabol tablets a day for 50 days since there were 100 tablets in the bottle. Used 2 bottles in 1975. That was it, nothing else.

I hate needles so avoided anything that could be injected. Didn't get much hypertrophy but my strength went up a bit. I got the Dianabol from

a Chinese pharmacist in Kings Cross, Sydney. Maybe it wasn't very good because nothing happened re muscle size. That is when I easily

cleaned and pressed 270 pounds. It flew up but I didn't try any more on the day. I could do 6 reps with 225 cold. I did a strict 400 pound bench

press weighing 200 pounds. I competed at 190 but still didn't have enough cuts.

We had Ray and girlfriend Kathy staying at our place then Bev and Steve came to stay as well. I drove them around Sydney and here they are at

Bondi Beach. Roz and I slept on the sofa while Bev and Steve had our king size waterbed. Before they left I told Steve I would stay at his place

if I ever visited New York. The jerk replied, "Don't bother!"

Small world for sure and the D-bol back then was very potent stuff. This is your thread so I won't go into my powerlifting history but I did train with Bev a few times at Pep's Gym in Framingham MA back in the early 80's. At the time I think Steve was a truck driver so he just kind of hung around. He seemed like an ass, however, never opened his mouth at Pep's because he knew better.

 She was a beast squatter and looked nothing like she did when she switched to bb.

[10pints]

I, for one, would relish the opportunity to try the supinator. And I have to say, the machines that you have produced look exceptionally well made. The proof is in the pudding with these things. I recently tried a lat pulldown machine in a hotel in Madrid, never seen one like it before, best damn lat machine i ever used. Made the one at my local gym seem amateurish.

[Vince B]

Small world for sure and the D-bol back then was very potent stuff. This is your thread so I won't go into my powerlifting history but I did train with Bev a few times at Pep's Gym in Framingham MA back in the early 80's. At the time I think Steve was a truck driver so he just kind of hung around. He seemed like an ass, however, never opened his mouth at Pep's because he knew better.

 She was a beast squatter and looked nothing like she did when she switched to bb.

Bev was the first woman to officially bench over 300 pounds. She was light heavyweight then. She eventually did something like 330 pounds. She would warm up with 225. One day in my gym she asked Col if she could work in with him. He didn't mind so started taking off a 45 from one end. He had 225 on the bar and was doing a couple of reps. Imagine his dismay when she did something like 10 reps with it!
Bev squatted with something like 500 pounds. Strong gal. She never tested positive for steroids, either, so she was smart, too.
I talked her into doing bodybuilding and we worked on a posing routine for her. Her mum made her posing outfit for her. Well, she guest posed at the 80 Olympia and we anxiously waited for the audience response. She got as much applause as the champion bodybuilders that night, including Arnold.
She was invited to competed in a Pumping Iron II...the Women and in 1983 placed 8th in that contest. They thought it would be a good idea to have big Steve drive Bev around and look out for her. Well, they got married.
The IFBB never let Bev win the Ms Olympia because it would be bad for that pageant. They fixed the contest in 83 shamelessly then did the same thing at the Olympia.
Steve was smart enough to open a gym in Bev's name. She is the one with the pleasant personality. Everyone likes Bev. Steve? A jerk. Not sure they are still together as a couple.
Anyway, Steve wouldn't let her respond to emails so she couldn't reply to me. I was pissed off that she couldn't mention my name when she did an article for a muscle magazine. Steve is one controlling prick.
I took photos of Bev and some were sold by Roz who was the manage of the Aussie women's powerlifting team. Bev had a nose job and now looks quite different. When Steve was in Australia he would remove some photos of Bev
from Gael Martin's photo album. In Pumping Iron 2, which was never released in Australia, Bev had to return to Australia. While out of the country some relatives of Steve wanted to see a photo of her. When he saw big Bev he asked,"Is that the goil?!" Made me laugh at the time. So Steve was embarrassed and Bev did things to make him less unhappy. She has visited Australia a few times but I haven't seen her since she opened her gym. That was a long time ago. When she first returned to Australia Steve told her who she could and couldn't visit. Imagine being married to that jerk!