speaking of this Mentzer thread

[dj181]

has anyone had any success training a muscle group less than once every 7 days?

back in the 50s and 60s everyone pretty much trained full body 3 times a week

then in the 70s to early 90s everyone pretty much did a 3 way split training everything twice a week

from the mid 90s up til now the big thing is training everything just once a week on a 5 way split

so just wondering if anyone has tried training  a muscle group every 10 days or so and how it worked out for ya

[Zillotch]

has anyone had any success training a muscle group less than once every 7 days?

'success' is about genetics... so u shouldn't dwell on it.

[dseiler]

'success' is about genetics... so u shouldn't dwell on it.

success is about hard work and consistency...so you should absolutely dwell on it

[Simple Simon]

success is about hard work and consistency...so you should absolutely dwell on it

nope, he right, its genetics
If your genetics suck you can eat like a monk train like an animal and take all the drugs under the sun, it just wont happen

[dj181]

you fellas are missing the point of the question which is... have you ever made improvements in strength training a muscle group less than once a week

they first started with 3 times a week and then to 2 times a week and now once a week, so what about less than once a week  ???I

[Simple Simon]

you fellas are missing the point of the question which is... have you ever made improvements in strength training a muscle group less than once a week

they first started with 3 times a week and then to 2 times a week and now once a week, so what about less than once a week  ???I

no one cares about your fucking point....

[ratherbebig]

i think the reason people train more often than every 7-10 days is because they reckon they will get faster results, not that they wont get results training less often.

[oldtimer1]

Mentzer's training ideas when he retired was not how he trained for any contest he competed in. I speculate he was a personal trainer when he retired and broke. It sure was a nice deal to see a client once every 7 to 10 days for 20 minutes than to see them more often.

[local hero]

Mentzer's training ideas when he retired was not how he trained for any contest he competed in. I speculate he was a personal trainer when he retired and broke. It sure was a nice deal to see a client once every 7 to 10 days for 20 minutes than to see them more often.

Would that not be self defeating, surely a trainer would want them training more frequently to keep him in pocket?

I made my best gains training 3 days a week, 1 muscle group every 7 days, low volume.... But that's just me

[dj181]

Would that not be self defeating, surely a trainer would want them training more frequently to keep him in pocket?

I made my best gains training 3 days a week, 1 muscle group every 7 days, low volume.... But that's just me

thanks for the feedback dude

this routine that you made your best gains on was his heavy duty 1 routine which he put oit in the early 90s

and oldtimer what you said doesn't gel coz you'd make more $$$ training a client 5 days a week than only once a week

[oldtimer1]

You're both missing the point. What you said would apply to you as a personal trainer. Mike Mentzer was famous in the bodybuilding community. He probably had more clients than he could deal with. People that followed him also thought anything he said was gospel regarding training. Look at the crap he came out with toward the end of his life. Something like 5 exercises for one set every 5 to 7 plus days in his books.

He won Weider's version of the Mr. America training three days a week using a whole body routine. So everything got hit three days a week. From there he went to a 4 day week routine where he split the body in this manner. One day was Legs, chest and triceps. The next was back, delts and biceps. He trained two days in a row then he took a day off then train two days in a row followed by two days off. He didn't strictly follow the calendar and if felt he needed more time off he would take it. He used this routine to compete and lose in two Mr. Universe contests.  Around this time Frank Calta was making a lot of buzz with his Rotation for Recuperation routine.  That's around the time Mike Mentzer changed his routine to three days a week again. He didn't strictly adhere to days of the week taking days off as needed but he generally worked out like Calta doing this Monday: legs, chest and tricep. Tuesday:off. Wednesday: Back, delt and bicep. Thursday: Off, Friday: He was back to legs, chest and Tricep. He then took two day off.  Now the next cycle it was reversed. Monday was Back, delt and bicep. Tuesday off. Wednesday was now Thighs, chest and tricep. Thursday was off. Friday was Back, delt and bicep.  So body parts were hit twice one week or once a week in a rotation.

He generally used two work sets and exercise and sometimes one.

Only after he retired did he talk about using single sets and a very limited amount of exercises every 5 to 7 plus days. That's when he was training clients.

For clarity and cliff notes. Using days of the week for clarity. He didn't adhere to days of the week. Meaning he could have started his workout on Tuesday instead of Monday.

He won the Weider Mr. America using this three days a week.

Monday: legs-back-chest-delt-tricep-bicep-abs
Wednesday: Same
Friday: Same
Weekends off
________________________ ________________________ ______________

From using the whole body routine he  went to this split.

Monday: legs-chest-triceps
Tuesday: back-delt-biceps
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: legs-chest-triceps
Friday: back-delt-biceps
Weekends off.
________________________ ________________________ ____________
Under the influence of Frank Calta he went to this rotation that  got him into his best shape.

Monday: legs-chest-triceps
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: back-delt-bicep
Thursday: Off
Friday: legs-chest-tricep

Next week he rotated.

Monday: back-delt-bicep
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: legs-chest-tricep
Thursday: off
Friday: Back-delt-bicep
Weekends off

This a sample of his thigh routine during his best shape. No warm ups listed.

Leg extensions were done pre exhaust style with the leg press as a superset.

leg extensions 2 x 12
leg press 2 x 12
squats 1 x 8
leg curls 2 x 10

[The Scott]

...Under the influence of Frank Calta he went to this rotation that  got him into his best shape.

Monday: legs-chest-triceps
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: back-delt-bicep
Thursday: Off
Friday: legs-chest-tricep

Next week he rotated.

Monday: back-delt-bicep
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: legs-chest-tricep
Thursday: off
Friday: Back-delt-bicep
Weekends off

I may give this one a try soon.  Thanks!

[dj181]

^^^ Great post

in his heavy duty 2 book there is a chapter where he talks about training frequency and he uses Squats as an example

he says after sso many days off you get stronger and incerase/improve and in his example it is 6 days so he says at this time every 6 days is best, but he said that as you keep ggetting stronger there comes a point when every 6 days isn't enough rest and you need to go to say every 8 days and as you keep getting stronger and stronger you need more days btw workouts

this point is something that hardly aanyone has paid attention to so I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience trying this out?

he claimed that some people got stronger after even 21 days of not training a certain lift  

[The Scott]

^^^ Great post

in his heavy duty 2 book there is a chapter where he talks about training frequency and he uses Squats as an example

he says after sso many days off you get stronger and incerase/improve and in his example it is 6 days so he says at this time every 6 days is best, but he said that as you keep ggetting stronger there comes a point when every 6 days isn't enough rest and you need to go to say every 8 days and as you keep getting stronger and stronger you need more days btw workouts

this point is something that hardly aanyone has paid attention to so I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience trying this out?

he claimed that some people got stronger after even 21 days of not training a certain lift  

That routine/method/logic may work for someone but it didn't for me.  I did get so SORE that I couldn't and didn't want to train for a week or more, but neither did I get stronger with every workout.  Even now, training 4 times a week I am quite sore.  Some weeks its like I'm from Krypton and we must be closer to the yellow sun and am stronger and other weeks, I'm, well...weaker.   

I finally decided to take what works best for me.  A variation on the Mentzer theme if you will. 

[JAGO]

MM's Heavy Duty was bullshit. It was based in Nautilus ( AJ's theories ) and modified for free weights to be included. Casey Viator trained with Mike and Ray for months at a time for years on end and stated Mike and Ray did 10 to 15 sets a body part.

J

[The Scott]

MM's Heavy Duty was bullshit. It was based in Nautilus ( AJ's theories ) and modified for free weights to be included. Casey Viator trained with Mike and Ray for months at a time for years on end and stated Mike and Ray did 10 to 15 sets a body part.

J

I and a friend saw them train once at Gold's.  They trained as they claimed to.  But that was one time, so who really knows?  People are people and will do as they please, especially when no one is watching.

[local hero]

It's a great routine and Calta called it "Rotation for recuperation".

I used a one bodypart per week version like this

Mon -back, bi's , traps, abs

Wed - legs

Fri - Chest, delts, tris, abs

This we similar to Yates  4 day week split and method promoted with his " Blood and Guts".

That's more or less what I did with great success,,,, I cant train hard enough any more to train this way, I train more frequently because of this



My variation was ..

Mon, chest, arms
Wed, legs
Fri,  back and shoulders

Two work sets, sometimes one on last exercise..

[dj181]

It's a great routine and Calta called it "Rotation for recuperation".

I used a one bodypart per week version like this

Mon -back, bi's , traps, abs

Wed - legs

Fri - Chest, delts, tris, abs

This we similar to Yates  4 day week split and method promoted with his " Blood and Guts".

that is exactly what his heavy duty one routine was which was released in 91 or 92

[oldschoolfan]

has anyone had any success training a muscle group less than once every 7 days?

back in the 50s and 60s everyone pretty much trained full body 3 times a week

then in the 70s to early 90s everyone pretty much did a 3 way split training everything twice a week

from the mid 90s up til now the big thing is training everything just once a week on a 5 way split

so just wondering if anyone has tried training  a muscle group every 10 days or so and how it worked out for ya

dj i tried his once every three days approach, this was way back in like 1998 i think, i did get alot stronger, but that was about it, i looked like shit and got very lethargic, of course i followed everything he said to a t, no cardio etc, big mistake.  i think this would work though if you are already lean, and did cardio on off days.

i think it just depends on ones body type someone who tends to get fat easy i do not think this would work for, but someone who is naturally lean i think it would yield better results

[The Wizard of Truth]

I try get to the gym five days a week, I do a five day split
1: Shoulders and bis
2: Quads and calves
3: Back
4: Hams, glutes and abs
5: Chest and tris

If I can only get in four days some weeks then so be it

[oldtimer1]

You have to be careful with anything Mentzer wrote after he retired. It didn't resemble anything he did in real life. Also wonder if he was half out of his mind too.  Also Mentzer used warm up sets. He didn't jump to one set of squats with 500lbs.  Many think he lied about using volume. Truth is by people who trained with him and watched him sometimes he did do more sets on an occasion. Viator who is the poster boy for HIT got into his best shape using around 16 sets per body part when he trained for the Olympia that Dickerson won.

[oldschoolfan]

You have to be careful with anything Mentzer wrote after he retired. It didn't resemble anything he did in real life. Also wonder if he was half out of his mind too.  Also Mentzer used warm up sets. He didn't jump to one set of squats with 500lbs.  Many think he lied about using volume. Truth is by people who trained with him and watched him sometimes he did do more sets on an occasion. Viator who is the poster boy for HIT got into his best shape using around 16 sets per body part when he trained for the Olympia that Dickerson won.

old timer i spoke to viator a few times through email he told me he did a ton of sets to get into contest shape, viator was pretty open minded, said arnold trained like a mad man in pre contest mode. he said arnolds pre contest workouts would kill most people

[Never1AShow]

The best bit of training advice ever given was not Mentzer or Arnold.  It was Franco Columbu, who said  "If it works, it works, no matter what anyone says." 

[Straw Man]

Frank Calta's Rotation for Recuperation was the first split I used where I made noticeable gains
I was a junior in high school and had been lifting at home for a couple of years but a gym opened in my town a few blocks from school

The weird thing about this gym was that It had a big room and then a small room with dumbells and a few machines

The gym segregated men and women so men got the main room M-W-F and the small room Tues-Thurs-Sat (gym was closed Sunday)

Calta's routine was in MM International at the time so I tried it and make really good gains ( my mother didn't like it because I had to get new shirts after a few months)

Looking back I can't believe how bad that gym sucked.  It didn't even have a squat rack.  It had a leg press that you could convert into a hack squat.   

Oddly, the guy who owned it competed and there were even a couple of other competitive BB's who worked out there.

Rotation for Recuperation is working each BP  1.5 times per week so even on the weeks when you trained each BP one time you weren't resting for 7 days until the next time you trained it.   You were working every bodypart once every 3 or 4 days but you also have total rest 4 days a week. 

[oldschoolfan]

Bingo!

That's the main point. How he actually trained to win major shows was VERY different from his post-retirement views.
I bought a tape of Bill Phillips interviewing Mentzer for MM2000 around 1994 (?)

Mentzer was still quite bitter about the infamous 1980 Olympia.
It was obvious he wanted to push his training ideals and philosophy.
He acted like his post competitor training systems were vastly superior then his original methods.
Once he started to advocate training 1 set every 21 days, he lost credibility.

totally agree, i tried the once every 4 days deal, got really out of shape and lethargic, and no way to train once a week