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Author Topic: The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory  (Read 11095 times)
Pray_4_War
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« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2017, 02:57:36 PM »

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« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2017, 03:03:05 PM »



Truth.
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2017, 03:13:22 PM »

We know Hillary and Podesta had more shady deals with the Russians such as the uranium deal etc. We know Hillery committed multiple felonies with her email scandal. We had fast and furious and the irs scandal
Where's the special prosecutor ?? What a fuckin joke

Who are the "we" you speak of?  Even you likely don't know these things.  It is like Trump saying, "everyone agrees." It is a total falsity.
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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2017, 03:16:23 PM »

Who are the "we" you speak of?  Even you likely don't know these things.  It is like Trump saying, "everyone agrees." It is a total falsity.

Not really.  Comey himself said Hillary was extremely careless with classified intel.  He then avoided recommending charges because he said she didn't have "intent," which wasn't required.  

Overall, I think "we" when talking about people who believe she mishandled classified intel is any reasonably intelligent person who isn't a Democrat party lackey.  
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2017, 03:26:32 PM »

Not really.  Comey himself said Hillary was extremely careless with classified intel.  He then avoided recommending charges because he said she didn't have "intent," which wasn't required.  

Overall, I think "we" when talking about people who believe she mishandled classified intel is any reasonably intelligent person who isn't a Democrat party lackey.  

Thank you for explaining who is "we ". I can now agree with those comments.
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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2017, 06:43:00 PM »

Thank you for explaining who is "we ". I can now agree with those comments.

No worries.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2017, 07:00:22 PM »

Truth.

too bad all those mountains only exist in the imagination of Republicans

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Primemuscle
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2017, 07:37:28 PM »

too bad all those mountains only exist in the imagination of Republicans



Correction: some Republicans. Others are jumping ship, hoping to save the party.
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Pray_4_War
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« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2017, 09:58:40 AM »

too bad all those mountains only exist in the imagination of Republicans



To borrow a phrase from my man Colin Flaherty.....you are in denial, deceit and delusion.
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« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2017, 10:00:52 AM »

There is no CT THEORY involved with any of the investigations

You're probably confused because Republicans have spent last 8 years making up idiotic CT's about Hillary, Obama, etc..

It's kind of your thing



Such as?
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« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2017, 10:05:49 AM »

For someone that was supposed to be a 'Dem Plant" to throw the election to Killary, there sure has been quite a bit of speculation as to him colluding with the Russians to win. The left just can't get it right and continues to get caught in their own lies and whats worse, they don't even realize it. Yes, they're that stupid.
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« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2017, 10:10:36 AM »

Russia (as well as lots of others) did anything and everything when Obama was in power. They wouldn't want a change in power.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnY4HyofnoU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnY4HyofnoU</a>
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a
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« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2017, 10:32:16 AM »

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Primemuscle
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« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2017, 02:19:25 PM »

For someone that was supposed to be a 'Dem Plant" to throw the election to Killary, there sure has been quite a bit of speculation as to him colluding with the Russians to win. The left just can't get it right and continues to get caught in their own lies and whats worse, they don't even realize it. Yes, they're that stupid.

Personally, I didn't buy the "Dem plant" theory. What seems more likely is that Trump's interests are only in himself. Therefore he's neither a Democrat or a
Republican; he is just Trump....warts, comb-overs and all.
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« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2017, 03:05:13 PM »

Good question. 

Gregg Jarrett: What is Robert Mueller investigating (since collusion is not a crime)?
By Gregg Jarrett
Published May 23, 2017
Fox News
 
Robert Mueller is tasked with finding a crime that does not exist in the law.  It is a legal impossibility.

As special counsel, Mueller can engage in all manner of spectacular jurisprudential gymnastics.  However, it will not change the fact that colluding with Russia is not, under America’s criminal codes, a crime.  It’s just not there.

Maybe it should be.  Perhaps someday Congress will pass a law criminalizing such conduct in political campaigns.  But for now, there is not a single statute outlawing collaboration with a foreign government in a U.S. presidential election.  Or any election, for that matter.

Why, then, are so many people who are following the Trump-Russia saga under the mistaken impression that collusion is a crime?  Principally, because it is a loaded word with an historic criminal connotation.

“Collusion” became a prominent part of the legal lexicon when Benjamin Harrison occupied the White House and Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act in 1890 outlawing collusion in some business practices.  Specifically, price fixing and other anticompetitive activities became a criminal offense under Section 1 of the Act.  Almost overnight, the word “collusion” was converted into a legal pejorative.

But collusion is only criminal in an antitrust setting.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with elections.  Yet that has not stopped politicians, pundits and journalists from either misunderstanding the concept and/or misconstruing its application to the Trump-Russia hysteria that has reached a deafening pitch. 

Both the Department of Justice and the FBI seem equally oblivious.

Mueller’s Marching Orders

Under the law granting him legal authority (28 CFR 600), a special counsel is charged with investigating crimes.  Only crimes.  Nothing else.  He has limited jurisdiction.  Any other wrongdoing uncovered in the investigation which does not rise to the level of a criminal offense cannot even be made public by the special counsel.  That is the law.   

So what crime is Mueller instructed to investigate?  Let take a look.

In his order appointing Mueller as special counsel (Order No. 3915-2017), Acting Attorney General Rod Rosenstein directed him to investigate “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump”.

But wait.  If Mueller is supposed to look for evidence of a crime that is not, by legal definition, a crime…then isn’t the special counsel being asked to do something that is manifestly unattainable?   Doesn’t the impossibility of his assignment render the exercise futile?  The answer is yes.       

The only conceivable crime is a tangential one.  If it could somehow be shown that someone in the Trump campaign aided and abetted the hacking of the Democratic National Committee or the campaign of Hillary Clinton, then perhaps a criminal charge might be made.  But as Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz told Fox News, “I’m sure that didn’t happen”.

How can he be so sure?  Common sense.  There is no evidence the Trump campaign had the technical expertise to hack anything.  Knowing about a computer theft or even verbally encouraging it is not enough under the law.  It requires an overt act that assists in the commission of the crime.  It appears that no one, including the Trump campaign, even knew about Russia’s hacking efforts until after they were accomplished and made public.

Any Related Matters

Rosenstein’s order to the special counsel authorizes him to investigate “any other matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.”   This is the usual all-encompassing phrase which allows a special counsel to run rampant in an almost limitless direction to dig up dirt on potential targets.   

As I pointed out in a recent column, Mueller’s probe will inevitably morph into an investigation of President Trump’s meeting with James Comey and his subsequent firing of the FBI Director.  Amid partisan accusations of obstruction of justice, the special counsel will surely examine whether the president corruptly attempted to influence, obstruct, or impede the due administration of the law, as the law defines it.  (18 USC 1501)

If the president told Comey he hopes former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn can be cleared because “he’s a good guy,” it is not enough to sustain an obstruction charge.  Hoping or wishing for an outcome is not the same as influencing, obstructing or impeding.  Nor is firing the FBI Director.  As Comey himself admitted, the president has the constitutional authority to fire him for any reason or no reason at all.

Furthermore, the term “corruptly” is specifically defined under18 USC 1515(b) as “acting with an improper purpose, including making a false or misleading statement, or withholding, concealing, altering, or destroying a document or other information.”  The president’s actions do not come close to satisfying the requirements of acting corruptly.

The most recent accusation is that President Trump asked two of his top intelligence officials, Daniel Coats and Adm. Michael Rogers, to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election.  If Rogers and Coats had no such evidence of collusion, then asking them to tell the truth is not illegal.  But at this point, we do not know what exactly occurred during those alleged conversations.

What we do know is that collusion in a political campaign is not, by itself, a crime.

How, then, is it possible to obstruct the investigation of a crime… which is not a crime?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/23/gregg-jarrett-what-is-robert-mueller-investigating-since-collusion-is-not-crime.html
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Straw Man
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« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2017, 03:37:25 PM »

Good question. 

Gregg Jarrett: What is Robert Mueller investigating (since collusion is not a crime)?
By Gregg Jarrett
Published May 23, 2017
Fox News
 
Robert Mueller is tasked with finding a crime that does not exist in the law.  It is a legal impossibility.

As special counsel, Mueller can engage in all manner of spectacular jurisprudential gymnastics.  However, it will not change the fact that colluding with Russia is not, under America’s criminal codes, a crime.  It’s just not there.

Maybe it should be.  Perhaps someday Congress will pass a law criminalizing such conduct in political campaigns.  But for now, there is not a single statute outlawing collaboration with a foreign government in a U.S. presidential election.  Or any election, for that matter.

Why, then, are so many people who are following the Trump-Russia saga under the mistaken impression that collusion is a crime?  Principally, because it is a loaded word with an historic criminal connotation.

“Collusion” became a prominent part of the legal lexicon when Benjamin Harrison occupied the White House and Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act in 1890 outlawing collusion in some business practices.  Specifically, price fixing and other anticompetitive activities became a criminal offense under Section 1 of the Act.  Almost overnight, the word “collusion” was converted into a legal pejorative.

But collusion is only criminal in an antitrust setting.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with elections.  Yet that has not stopped politicians, pundits and journalists from either misunderstanding the concept and/or misconstruing its application to the Trump-Russia hysteria that has reached a deafening pitch. 

Both the Department of Justice and the FBI seem equally oblivious.

Mueller’s Marching Orders

Under the law granting him legal authority (28 CFR 600), a special counsel is charged with investigating crimes.  Only crimes.  Nothing else.  He has limited jurisdiction.  Any other wrongdoing uncovered in the investigation which does not rise to the level of a criminal offense cannot even be made public by the special counsel.  That is the law.   

So what crime is Mueller instructed to investigate?  Let take a look.

In his order appointing Mueller as special counsel (Order No. 3915-2017), Acting Attorney General Rod Rosenstein directed him to investigate “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump”.

But wait.  If Mueller is supposed to look for evidence of a crime that is not, by legal definition, a crime…then isn’t the special counsel being asked to do something that is manifestly unattainable?   Doesn’t the impossibility of his assignment render the exercise futile?  The answer is yes.       

The only conceivable crime is a tangential one.  If it could somehow be shown that someone in the Trump campaign aided and abetted the hacking of the Democratic National Committee or the campaign of Hillary Clinton, then perhaps a criminal charge might be made.  But as Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz told Fox News, “I’m sure that didn’t happen”.

How can he be so sure?  Common sense.  There is no evidence the Trump campaign had the technical expertise to hack anything.  Knowing about a computer theft or even verbally encouraging it is not enough under the law.  It requires an overt act that assists in the commission of the crime.  It appears that no one, including the Trump campaign, even knew about Russia’s hacking efforts until after they were accomplished and made public.

Any Related Matters

Rosenstein’s order to the special counsel authorizes him to investigate “any other matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.”   This is the usual all-encompassing phrase which allows a special counsel to run rampant in an almost limitless direction to dig up dirt on potential targets.   

As I pointed out in a recent column, Mueller’s probe will inevitably morph into an investigation of President Trump’s meeting with James Comey and his subsequent firing of the FBI Director.  Amid partisan accusations of obstruction of justice, the special counsel will surely examine whether the president corruptly attempted to influence, obstruct, or impede the due administration of the law, as the law defines it.  (18 USC 1501)

If the president told Comey he hopes former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn can be cleared because “he’s a good guy,” it is not enough to sustain an obstruction charge.  Hoping or wishing for an outcome is not the same as influencing, obstructing or impeding.  Nor is firing the FBI Director.  As Comey himself admitted, the president has the constitutional authority to fire him for any reason or no reason at all.

Furthermore, the term “corruptly” is specifically defined under18 USC 1515(b) as “acting with an improper purpose, including making a false or misleading statement, or withholding, concealing, altering, or destroying a document or other information.”  The president’s actions do not come close to satisfying the requirements of acting corruptly.

The most recent accusation is that President Trump asked two of his top intelligence officials, Daniel Coats and Adm. Michael Rogers, to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election.  If Rogers and Coats had no such evidence of collusion, then asking them to tell the truth is not illegal.  But at this point, we do not know what exactly occurred during those alleged conversations.

What we do know is that collusion in a political campaign is not, by itself, a crime.

How, then, is it possible to obstruct the investigation of a crime… which is not a crime?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/23/gregg-jarrett-what-is-robert-mueller-investigating-since-collusion-is-not-crime.html

sounds good to me

remember Ken Starr was investigating Whitewater and Repubs ended up impeaching Clinton for lying about getting a blow job so I KNOW they have no problem with a special counsel going off in any direction in search of an impeachable offense

And thanks to Republicans they set the bar pretty low too. 

Good job

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Straw Man
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« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2017, 03:52:51 PM »

For someone that was supposed to be a 'Dem Plant" to throw the election to Killary, there sure has been quite a bit of speculation as to him colluding with the Russians to win. The left just can't get it right and continues to get caught in their own lies and whats worse, they don't even realize it. Yes, they're that stupid.

of course there was zero evidence that he was a Dem Plant

No evidence so far of collusion though lots of claims by intelligence officials of communication/contact between Trump Team and Russia and also claims by multiple intelligence agencies that Russia (or as Trump calls it "Rusher") interfered in our election

Mike Flynn is allegedly going to take the fifth amendment which, according to Mike Flynn's own words "means you probably committed a crime"

Certainly worthy of investigating to find out what the heck is going on
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« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2017, 05:39:46 PM »

Funny headline.  The MSM once again not even trying to hide their bias.

Calculating or naive? Trump caught in cloud of Russia probe revelations
By Stephen Collinson, CNN
Tue May 23, 2017
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/23/politics/trump-russia-comey-coats-rogers/index.html
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« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2017, 05:50:19 PM »

Funny headline.  The MSM once again not even trying to hide their bias.

Calculating or naive? Trump caught in cloud of Russia probe revelations
By Stephen Collinson, CNN
Tue May 23, 2017
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/23/politics/trump-russia-comey-coats-rogers/index.html

LOL it's cnn

won't read.
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« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2017, 07:15:20 AM »

Correction: some Republicans. Others are jumping ship, hoping to save the party.
Those jumping ship are sinking the party/where never on the ship to begin with. They are destroying their own party by revealing they are democrats. It is nearing a one party system. The elections have shown that we do not agree with their agenda. Republicans jumping to that side=losing elections because no point in voting them in.
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« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2017, 09:41:43 AM »

Not really.  Comey himself said Hillary was extremely careless with classified intel.  He then avoided recommending charges because he said she didn't have "intent," which wasn't required.  

Overall, I think "we" when talking about people who believe she mishandled classified intel is any reasonably intelligent person who isn't a Democrat party lackey.  

Obviously, Hildabeast and hubby slick Willy have pulled some shady shit.
To me the worst was when Bill boarded the plane to talk to AG Lynch as Hillary was being investigated.

BUT, her crooked crap doesn't make Trump less crooked on the Russia collusion.

It's like me saying I have a good record on marital success because Trump's been married 3 times. Grin
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« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2017, 09:58:47 AM »

In case anyone's missed it, here is a general description of the main foothold being used for this cliff-climbing trek.  Posted last night, by Time.

Quote
In May 2016, a Russian military intelligence officer talked too much. Boasting to a colleague, he said that his organization, known as the GRU, was getting ready to cause chaos in the upcoming U.S. presidential election. The officer was “bragging about the systematic attempt... to cause chaos into our electoral cycle,” a senior U.S. intelligence official told TIME for the magazine's current cover story on the Russian operation.
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Straw Man
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« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2017, 10:11:21 AM »

In case anyone's missed it, here is a general description of the main foothold being used for this cliff-climbing trek.  Posted last night, by Time.


great job posting the link so we can read the entire article
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« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2017, 10:19:25 AM »

great job posting the link so we can read the entire article

Look, man.  It's very simple.

Copy and paste that into any search engine and you can see not only the original (from Time) but all analysis to go with it from all sources.

Do that with anything you read on this board or any other.  I recommend you get into that habit, since it will broaden your horizons (which you badly need).
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Straw Man
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« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2017, 10:25:06 AM »

Look, man.  It's very simple.

Copy and paste that into any search engine and you can see not only the original (from Time) but all analysis to go with it from all sources.

Do that with anything you read on this board or any other.  I recommend you get into that habit, since it will broaden your horizons (which you badly need).

even more simple

when you post a quote also post a link to the source

you're already there at the source copying your quote so just copy the link too

I'm going to assume you pulled a quote out of context thus totally meaningless

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